C200: The new Canon C200 with 4K

Eric Coughlin said:
Here are some ungraded frame grabs from a short film I DPed last week with a non-Sony camera. Brought the footage into Premiere, it automatically applied a LUT (so no color work from me), and voila.

Images were sharper before compressing photos and uploading. Need to figure out a better method.

Full-size: http://i.imgur.com/Twh3tLZ.jpg
K6Qixmm.jpg

Canon 35 T/1.5 CN-E

Full-size: http://i.imgur.com/yes8vpo.jpg
XNsRiw6.jpg

Canon 18-80 T/4.4 CN-E

Full-size: http://i.imgur.com/MCk8NR8.jpg
yzLuVET.jpg

Canon 15.5-47 T/2.8 CN-E
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Did this non-Sony camera lighted those scenes?
 
laverdir said:
Did this non-Sony camera lighted those scenes?
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First shot was an Arri Skypanel SC-60 as key, Kino Celeb 201 as hair, 4 x 4 floppy for negative fill, along with ambient light.

Second shot was all natural light.

Third shot we may have used a small reflect as a bounce on his face, but not sure if we used it for that particular shot. He was basically looking into the sunset.

Of course with an Arri camera you don't need to light scenes cause it all looks amazing no matter what.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
First shot was an Arri Skypanel SC-60 as key, Kino Celeb 201 as hair, 4 x 4 floppy for negative fill, along with ambient light.

Second shot was all natural light.

Third shot we may have used a small reflect as a bounce on his face, but not sure if we used it for that particular shot. He was basically looking into the sunset.

Of course with an Arri camera you don't need to light scenes cause it all looks amazing no matter what.
Click to expand...

I'll take two then, one for my left hand/eye/shoulder and one for my right hand/eye/shoulder, will shoot twice as many set-ups at once.

If that was black leather jacket in third shot, the bounce was probably behind the subject.

Does your AC miss focus hard stops on 18-80?
 
laverdir said:
Does your AC miss focus hard stops on 18-80?
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Of course. I tried pulling focus manually without the AC with the 18-80 for a couple shots and that didn't work too well. The first shot I eventually got it. The second shot I gave up and switched to the 85mm CN-E and had the AC pulling focus wirelessly, and he nailed the shot. We switched to the 18-80 for those two shots as we wanted it tighter than the 15.5-47, but still wanted zoom capabilities to keep us moving. Ideally I would have had the 30-105 CN-E on set, but I don't own that lens.

We started the day mostly with the CN-E primes of which the co-director owns a set, but filmed most of the later two-thirds of the day on my 15.5-47 to keep things moving quicker.

We did use my 18-80 and the servo zoom on the Rhino motorized slider for a motorized servo Vertigo shot, for which the 18-80 worked decently for it. The 18-80 is of course more geared toward run n gun doc shooting so wasn't exactly the ideal lens for a narrative shoot, particularity with a camera that doesn't have auto-focus.

I actually felt like the 18-80 was harder to pull focus manually than say a 24-70 or 24-105, but maybe that's just because it was my first shoot with the 18-80 and the rest of the day I was shooting with true cinema lenses, by comparison.


Here is the Amira setup on the Rhino slider. I switched to the 18-80 lens before doing the shot (15.5-47 in the video at that moment).

 
Getting back on thread....I am thrilled that finally the C200 is coming.

It will hopefully give us features more in line with The FS5 like High Frame rate for Slo-Mo on 1080p.

It should also drive the price down on the C100 Mark 2 which I have had my eye on too.
 
@Eric Coughlin
Thanks for the answers, nice to hear your hands-on experience.

18-80 is perfect match for touchscreen cameras like the 70D, 80D and >>>1DX Mark II<<<.
But Canon doesn't support that lens on those cameras. If they change their mind, I believe that they couldn't make them fast enough to satisfy the need of the market.
But they won't change their mind.

That brings us from the scenic route back to the tracks, @EIREHotspur.

Judging from the XF300/5, XF100/5 and XF200/5 history, we can expect to get touchscreen for AF and "low quality" recording 4k on "C200".

They can implement just about any feature they want in any of their cameras, but they watch very carefully that each camera domain overlaps with others in smallest possible way.
 
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You really think people are going to purchase a U.S. $5,500.00 cine zoom to use on a $1,000.00 DSLR like the 70, 77 or 80D? Maybe an occasional 1DX MKII user, maybe, but I doubt many low end DSLR buyers are going to be clammering to spend $5,500.00 on a lens.

laverdir said:
18-80 is perfect match for touchscreen cameras like the 70D, 80D and >>>1DX Mark II<<<.
But Canon doesn't support that lens on those cameras. If they change their mind, I believe that they couldn't make them fast enough to satisfy the need of the market.
But they won't change their mind.
Click to expand...
 
@puredrifting, why not?

People have been torturing them self's with photography lenses for so long that even the most indolent camera manufacturer had the time to come to the rescue (in reality they were forced to step in by Sony and Fuji).

18-80 without hard focus stops doesn't qualify as a cine zoom, more like a 'wannabe' ENG zoom. Or maybe it is cine zoom, because Canon named them like that?

Anyway, Canon video gear was always designed to accommodate the needs of 'wedding shooters', to look like a 'pro' when filming 'real talents'.

Having said that, I would buy 18-80 and 1DX Mark II combination in a breeze. It's perfect as a replacement for most 2/3" application.
 
Have to remember that 99% of people use those cameras for photography.

No one would buy the 18-80mm for their DSLRs besides a few people on DVXuser.
 
+3, but we are here at dvxuser forum discussing and I haven't heard one argument against it other then not being affordable.

Canon was not clear enough that those 99% shouldn't use the video function that is included with their DSLR,
this tapping to (auto) focus on newer APS-C Canons is spreading faster then WannaCry.

At least they should put a decent video-lens on that (so they don't need to cry over the results),
or do you think that Canon EF-S 18-135 Nano in combination with PZ-E1 is plenty enough?

Again, they can support 18-80 on their DSLRs, even on 1DX MII in 4k mode, but then they would loose their 'prosumer' wedding customers for their obsolete video cameras.
 
laverdir said:
@puredrifting, why not?

People have been torturing them self's with photography lenses for so long that even the most indolent camera manufacturer had the time to come to the rescue (in reality they were forced to step in by Sony and Fuji).

18-80 without hard focus stops doesn't qualify as a cine zoom, more like a 'wannabe' ENG zoom. Or maybe it is cine zoom, because Canon named them like that?

Anyway, Canon video gear was always designed to accommodate the needs of 'wedding shooters', to look like a 'pro' when filming 'real talents'.

Having said that, I would buy 18-80 and 1DX Mark II combination in a breeze. It's perfect as a replacement for most 2/3" application.
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I really wouldn't qualify it as an ENG lens, either. All of mine have hard stops... ; )

18-80 and 1DXII perfect replacement for most 2/3" applications?! Hahaha... No... No sir, it's not.
 
The point is no manufacturer will add a function or release a product unless it believes that this will lead to increased sales. So how many more of the inexpensive cameras and how many more 18-80 lenses can they sell per month based on adding the function. They study this and if it isn't enough it doesn't happen.
 
laverdir said:
+3, but we are here at dvxuser forum discussing and I haven't heard one argument against it other then not being affordable.

Canon was not clear enough that those 99% shouldn't use the video function that is included with their DSLR,
this tapping to (auto) focus on newer APS-C Canons is spreading faster then WannaCry.

At least they should put a decent video-lens on that (so they don't need to cry over the results),
or do you think that Canon EF-S 18-135 Nano in combination with PZ-E1 is plenty enough?

Again, they can support 18-80 on their DSLRs, even on 1DX MII in 4k mode, but then they would loose their 'prosumer' wedding customers for their obsolete video cameras.
Click to expand...

If there was a significant market for a 1DX II and 18-80 t/4.4 combo, we would have a 1DC II right now. I just can't see how this market exists. Frankly, the ef-s 18-135 motorized zoom on a DPAF camera is pretty nice.
 
cpreston said:
If there was a significant market for a 1DX II and 18-80 t/4.4 combo, we would have a 1DC II right now. I just can't see how this market exists. Frankly, the ef-s 18-135 motorized zoom on a DPAF camera is pretty nice.
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If there is no market for such a combo, why then Canon is releasing 'C200' - which will have touchscreen for AF, and why then are they releasing an addition to CN-E 18-80 - Canon CN-E 70-200?

@MitchGross
Increased sales isn't the only parametar that they watch for, as I said before, they also have to watch not to step on someone else toe.
My point is that they already offer similar concept with 80D, EF-S 18-135 Nano USM and PZ-E1 but won't allow it with 1DX MII/80D/70D/77D/7DMII and CN-E 18-80/70-200 to make a room for C200.

@Run&Gun
2/3" application purely based on similar depth of the field. For camera with DPAF focus guide and AF-Boosted MF or Face Detection AF not having focus hard stops isn't such a deal breaker.

C200, 'the perfect 4k wedding shooter camera'.
 
laverdir said:
If there is no market for such a combo, why then Canon is releasing 'C200' - which will have touchscreen for AF, and why then are they releasing an addition to CN-E 18-80 - Canon CN-E 70-200?
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I doubt that the C200 is going to be a DSLR. In fact, the rumor is that the C200 is going to be designed for easier shoulder mount, which means that the touch screen is going to have to be relocatable and it is going be useless for those of us who don't have good enough eyes to see and use a screen without a viewfinder when the camera is close to our bodies. My guess is that the real reason that the 1DX II doesn't yet have an ability to control the 18-80 is that the 18-80 is not a full frame lens and Canon generally designs their crop frame lenses so that they can't be put on full frame bodies. Canon seems to believe that nobody would want to use a crop frame lens on a full frame body.
 
cpreston said:
I doubt that the C200 is going to be a DSLR. In fact, the rumor is that the C200 is going to be designed for easier shoulder mount, which means that the touch screen is going to have to be relocatable and it is going be useless for those of us who don't have good enough eyes to see and use a screen without a viewfinder when the camera is close to our bodies. My guess is that the real reason that the 1DX II doesn't yet have an ability to control the 18-80 is that the 18-80 is not a full frame lens and Canon generally designs their crop frame lenses so that they can't be put on full frame bodies. Canon seems to believe that nobody would want to use a crop frame lens on a full frame body.
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Well, why WOULD anyone want to use a crop frame lens on a full frame body? Key hole effect?
 
There are some nice Canon EF-S lenses that aren't meant to be used on full-frame bodies without altering the lens (which I found out the other day...but they could still damage the camera though), and those would work nicely in the crop modes of cameras like the 5D Mark IV and 1DX Mark II. That's probably the only reason...using them in crop modes.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Well, why WOULD anyone want to use a crop frame lens on a full frame body? Key hole effect?
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I don't do it often, but depending on your shooting resolution, you can crop in with minimal quality loss. Also, crop sensor zooms often work at certain focal lengths on full frame. I've used my Tokina and Sigma zooms on my 6D from time to time with acceptable results.
 
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