C200: The new Canon C200 with 4K

control4userguy said:
^What was implied is that it is a near-waste of money (even $400 for a clunky blade) to add-on a box that yields little qualitative difference to the C100 output. It works when wired together. Is this still misleading? Working professionally will certainly put capital purchasing at the top of the priority sheet..
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In some people's opinion, a near waste of money. For our clients, the Blade has been a decisive win-win that has paid for itself dozens of times over the past couple of years. Clients love being handed Prores HQ files and really dislike weird .MXF formats that typically cannot be viewed without knowledge, specific software, codecs and utilities. SInce the C100 has basically a useless VF, having the nice, relatively sharp Blade screen to compose and focus with has been a huge win. If I am not shooting for clients, like this upcoming weekend, shooting some footage for our own internal project, yes, the Blade will not be along for the ride as we are shooting fast moving, handheld footage of subjects doing sports and having the extra weight, cables and hassle are not helpful in capturing the shots we need efficiently. As far as Michael's needs, I contend that if he is going to shoot green screen or wants to really lean harder on the footage for grading, 4:2:2 10-bit capture is superior. If not, skip the Blade, I agree.
 
So as a guitar maker, do you believe there is a difference between, say a $1800 Taylor guitar and the $100 Chinese guitar I got my kid so he could begin to learn? And is it a difference that only audio engineers would hear and 99% of the public wouldn't notice?

Some specs mean nothing; some mean a lot. Some differences are not apparent in specs, but those differences are real. The same that holds true in guitars holds true in cameras.
 
chappelldigital said:
I really hate those "Sony" colours too....

View attachment 123600
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It's a strange thing, but I do really 'click' with Canon colors a lot more than most makers. I just naturally like the image coming out of the camera, and it's easy to manipulate into what I want because it feels so clean and natural as a starting point. By contrast, I really can't stand the image I get out of my brother's Fuji X100 whenever I borrow it, even though a lot of people love their color science. It just doesn't work for me, particularly the greens.
 
The Chinese basically put the violin and cello making tradition in Europe out of business. They made better violins and cellos than the Europeans. I bought my son a European cello, but when I went to sell it later found it was not worth much.

For a beginner like your son, a Chinese guitar is fine..... just make sure the action is easy to play, otherwise he won't be inclined to keep playing. When he gets better and wants to progress then move up into a better guitar. I prefer Martin guitars over Taylor..... look at it this way, a Martin is like a C300 MKII, and a Taylor is like an FS7. Martin is I believe the oldest established business in the USA, and I think they are pretty much still hand made..... you are buying a piece of history with Martin. With Taylor you are buying a guitar made with robots and CNC machines, a company that relocated to Tecate Mexico so they can reek in the profit. Taylor's are just cheap guitars in my mind. But I digress.

Audio engineers hear all kinds of things, but for the most part they record pop music, and they couldn't produce a good guitar recording to save their arse. The import thing is if you like the sound of your Chinese guitar.

Here is how Taylor's are made..... shocking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMOZJk8MieI

And here is how I make em.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XSIXxfFdEc
 
Michael Thames said:
The Chinese basically put the violin and cello making tradition in Europe out of business. They made better violins and cellos than the Europeans. I bought my son a European cello, but when I went to sell it later found it was not worth much.

For a beginner like your son, a Chinese guitar is fine..... just make sure the action is easy to play, otherwise he won't be inclined to keep playing. When he gets better and wants to progress then move up into a better guitar. I prefer Martin guitars over Taylor..... look at it this way, a Martin is like a C300 MKII, and a Taylor is like an FS7. Martin is I believe the oldest established business in the USA, and I think they are pretty much still hand made..... you are buying a piece of history with Martin. With Taylor you are buying a guitar made with robots and CNC machines, a company that relocated to Tecate Mexico so they can reek in the profit. Taylor's are just cheap guitars in my mind. But I digress.

Audio engineers hear all kinds of things, but for the most part they record pop music, and they couldn't produce a good guitar recording to save their arse. The import thing is if you like the sound of your Chinese guitar.

Here is how Taylor's are made..... shocking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMOZJk8MieI

And here is how I make em.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XSIXxfFdEc
Click to expand...

Very interesting video. Thank you for the share. I find it interesting to see how small businesses use video to sell their services. I'm assuming that your video is self produced? Do you think the extra "production values" that you've used in selling your work has helped increase your sales and profits, or did you just start producing your own videos because you found it interesting? I see so much stuff shot on a cellphone now that it makes me wonder if it even matters for web videos.
 
Mitch Gross said:
So as a guitar maker, do you believe there is a difference between, say a $1800 Taylor guitar and the $100 Chinese guitar I got my kid so he could begin to learn? ...
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You should have bought him a Tonika.

http://cheesyguitars.com/tonika_leningrad.html

Body made of Bakelite. One could Pete Townsend it a hundred times. It won't break.

But, if you already splurged for a Chinese guitar, you probably should next splurge for better strings.
 
Michael Thames said:
The Chinese basically put the violin and cello making tradition in Europe out of business. They made better violins and cellos than the Europeans. I bought my son a European cello, but when I went to sell it later found it was not worth much.

Martin is I believe the oldest established business in the USA
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I call BS on Dr.Who.
 
cpreston said:
Very interesting video. Thank you for the share. I find it interesting to see how small businesses use video to sell their services. I'm assuming that your video is self produced? Do you think the extra "production values" that you've used in selling your work has helped increase your sales and profits, or did you just start producing your own videos because you found it interesting? I see so much stuff shot on a cellphone now that it makes me wonder if it even matters for web videos.
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Thanks! Yea self produced. When you shoot yourself it's some what limiting ... just point on an object and then hope you are in focus too! Thank God for DPAF now. That was on the 5D3. I have a lot of ideas for some kind of documentaries but have no time to really pursue these ideas. I'm moving to Thailand within a year so I'm hoping I'll have some time then to apply what limited knowledge I have to something more creative. What was once a necessity became a hobby, and now it's somewhat of an obsession and passion.

If not for video I would not be in business in this day and age. CD's are obsolete for musicians now, and the recording business has been in panic for years. Now if you want to hear a pop song everyone goes to YouTube. All my musician friends want videos rather than CD's. The rationale is to promote yourself on youtube through video, then sell CD's at concerts.

I started doing videos back in 2008 to promote my guitars, my first camera was a Canon XH-A1..... the only reason I bought it was because it had XLR's. took it home and tried to make it work on an old Gateway computer with zero memory and couldn't figure out why it wasn't working. Then found out I needed a new computer etc. my wife and I never argue but when I brought home the XH-A1 she wouldn't speak to me for three days.

It was a painful learning experience because I wasn't computer or camera literate. But after finally uploading my first video on YouTube I realized that was the future. Over the years I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars marketing my guitars through video. It became a necessity, and whenever I think I need new gear I never hesitate to justify the expenses.

YouTube and Vimeo are essentially free advertising so why not take advantage of it. Just wish musicians could make money with YouTube.
 
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I've seen some great skin tones and colors from Sony cameras. Unfortunately, those images have required heavy massaging in post to get them to the point of acceptability, a luxury which many of us don't have. I shoot a lot for PR and Marketing and they need baked in looks that are web ready, when we shoot junkets and press events, the footage is often on-line within an hour of us shooting it. Sony doesn't cut it in that arena generally, other than the F5/F55. But the A7 variants, 6300/6500, FS5/FS7, to me, do not have an acceptable look straight out of camera. Different strokes. I wish the FS7 had the same color science of the F5/F55, people claim it does but the end results never seem so. Is the image above straight from camera or heavily graded/CCd?

chappelldigital said:
I really hate those "Sony" colours too....

View attachment 123600
</sarcasm>
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Michael Thames said:
The Chinese basically put the violin and cello making tradition in Europe out of business. They made better violins and cellos than the Europeans. I bought my son a European cello, but when I went to sell it later found it was not worth much.

For a beginner like your son, a Chinese guitar is fine..... just make sure the action is easy to play, otherwise he won't be inclined to keep playing. When he gets better and wants to progress then move up into a better guitar. I prefer Martin guitars over Taylor..... look at it this way, a Martin is like a C300 MKII, and a Taylor is like an FS7. Martin is I believe the oldest established business in the USA, and I think they are pretty much still hand made..... you are buying a piece of history with Martin. With Taylor you are buying a guitar made with robots and CNC machines, a company that relocated to Tecate Mexico so they can reek in the profit. Taylor's are just cheap guitars in my mind. But I digress.

Audio engineers hear all kinds of things, but for the most part they record pop music, and they couldn't produce a good guitar recording to save their arse. The import thing is if you like the sound of your Chinese guitar.

Here is how Taylor's are made..... shocking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMOZJk8MieI

And here is how I make em.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XSIXxfFdEc
Click to expand...

I fear you did not understand the spirit of my post.
 
Bloom shoots in CineGammas, not Log. I only shoot Log, & don't usually like the look of the CineGammas, or other gammas, available in Custom Mode, though you'll often see them employed more-or-less successfully in low light scenes on shows such as Parts Unknown.

We've cut FS7 footage with Alexa's regularly, often using the cameras side-by-side, & color has never been an issue (DR, sharpness, & roll-off, are different stories), but if I needed to deliver WYSIWYG the Sonys would not be my choice.

On a side note to Dr Who...didn't watch all your promo video, which brings me to my point, think you should cut it down to six minutes, or less. We make a lot of short documentaries, & found six minutes to be the outer limit most audiences will pay attention, & if we can convey the information in even shorter films we always do.
 
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Here are some ungraded frame grabs from a short film I DPed last week with a non-Sony camera. Brought the footage into Premiere, it automatically applied a LUT (so no color work from me), and voila.

Images were sharper before compressing photos and uploading. Need to figure out a better method.

Full-size: http://i.imgur.com/Twh3tLZ.jpg
K6Qixmm.jpg

Canon 35 T/1.5 CN-E

Full-size: http://i.imgur.com/yes8vpo.jpg
XNsRiw6.jpg

Canon 18-80 T/4.4 CN-E

Full-size: http://i.imgur.com/MCk8NR8.jpg
yzLuVET.jpg

Canon 15.5-47 T/2.8 CN-E
 
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Bern Caughey said:
Bloom shoots in CineGammas, not Log. I only shoot Log, & don't usually like the look of the CineGammas, or other gammas, available in Custom Mode, though you'll often see them employed in more-or-less sucseefully in low light scenes on shows such as Parts Unknown.

We've cut FS7 footage with Alexa's regularly, often using the cameras side-by-side, & color has never been an issue (DR, sharpness, & roll-off, are different stories), but if I needed to deliver WYSIWYG the Sonys would not be my choice.

On a side note to Dr Who...didn't watch all your promo video, which brings me to my point, think you should cut it down to six minutes, or less. We make a lot of short documentaries, & found six minutes to be the outer limit most audiences will pay attention, & if we can convey the information in even shorter films we always do.
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Bloom shoots CinieGammas on the C-series as well, I guess, cause I don't know for sure. But assuming he does, I think it's a fair comparission of the different color science between the two cameras.

Im learning about color grading, but one thing I know for sure is I don't want to start off fixing a mistake if I can help it. The one thing I hear over and over on this forum is how bad Sony's color science is. Granted I spend most of my time here in the C100/300 section so maybe I'm hearing things from a biased Canon perspective..... but from what I have seen of FS7 footage I have to agree with them. I don't think the Sony color is bad per say but not my cup of tea.

I've never heard anyone say ..... oh I love Sony color! I do hear lots of people say how much they love Canon color. Many FS7 owners say they can make it look like a Canon in post, and I'm sure they can kind a, but then why not just get a Canon? Money right?

If you are a guitarist, you most likely don't want my video to end, and guys have actually said that to me......if you are not a guitarist then you probably will watch 30 seconds of it. I don't follow the logic of a strict 6:00 limit. If there is content that is interesting time flys and I want more. If it's a movie trailer then yea, I can kind a see how you would want to suck them in and have them beg for more with a 1 minute trailer..... but my video isn't a teaser.
 
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