C200: The new Canon C200 with 4K

laverdir said:
If there is no market for such a combo, why then Canon is releasing 'C200' - which will have touchscreen for AF...
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And you know this for a fact? How did you find out? Nobody even knows if the C200 exists, much less specific features. The C300 MKII doesn't have a touch screen for AF, nor does the C100 MKII, what makes you believe a C200 would?
 
@cpreston & @Mitch Gross

1DC, 1DX Mark II and 5D Mark IV (listed by crop size) all have 4k (and HD) in this crop sizes: 'slightly larger then' Super 35mm, 1.3(3) and 1.74.

18-80 has plenty enough image circle, confirmation here, here and here.

CraigM said:
Ours arrived today... Also put it on our 1DC, covers 4K and S35 without any issues that I could see during a quick test. Planning a day as well to shoot some 4K on the 1DC with the lens.
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hammerhorror said:
I received my 18-80mm lens over the weekend...

I also attached it to my Canon 1D C. The lens covers the 4K mode and all Super 35 modes without any vignetting. It does not cover full frame video modes. I had to zoom in to roughly 50mm before I didn't see any vignetting in full frame. I knew that the lens didn't cover full frame when I purchased it, but I figured I would take a look anyway.

As expected, the auto iris and auto focus controls on the lens do not function on the 1D C.
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Terry Nixon said:
The 5D Mark IV will power the Compact-Servo Lens via the EF Mount.
The Servo Control works perfectly.
Unfortunately, Auto Focus and Auto Iris do not function when the Compact-Servo Lens is mated to the 5D.
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The interest for this combination clearly exist:

Will this lens cover the 1.33 crop sensor size of the Canon 1Dx Mark II?
Having just got a 1DX II, I am also interested in knowing if this lens will cover 1.3x ie APS-H sensor area.
I'm curious if I can use this lens with the Canon 1dx mark ii?
I wonder if it fully works on a 1DC (in the S35mm mode).

Canon just have to enable DPAF for that lens in firmware (for 1DX MII, 5D MIV and, of course, 7D MII/70D/77D/80D).
But they won't.

@puredrifting

My opinion is just pure speculation, as this whole thread is, based on history and logic.

Ask Eric if it's a joy moving focus with joystick. Or it can be done faster, easier and more precise with touchscreen.
 
laverdir said:
@puredrifting

My opinion is just pure speculation, as this whole thread is, based on history and logic.

Ask Eric if it's a joy moving focus with joystick. Or it can be done faster, easier and more precise with touchscreen.
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Oh, I agree, I use an 80D for gimbal and slider and I love the touchscreen, so convenient and intuitive when you are in the heat of the moment. I am just not convinced Canon will translate this to their pro cameras. Most pros seem to eschew any kind of touch screen on their digital cinema camera. Guess we'll eventually find out IF the C200 even exists and when it is revealed. I am not convinced it even exists just from one rumor site.
 
laverdir said:
Ask Eric if it's a joy moving focus with joystick. Or it can be done faster, easier and more precise with touchscreen.
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I can tell you in general I hate touch screens aside from the iPhone's touch screen (or perhaps smart phones in general). I'm not a fan of using the touch screen to control Red cameras. Smudgy, smudgy, smudgy. Arri is a more simple interface; no touch screen.

One of the main things I was looking for when buying a car was a car that didn't require using a touch screen to control the radio station and other controls. The Mazda CX-5 I got had very good button controls in addition to the touch screen, so using the touch screen is optional and thus I pretty much never use it. I basically didn't want to crash while messing with a touch screen, which is how I felt with one or two of the SUVs I had rented before where driving became more precarious thanks to touch screen.

It kind of depends on how you shoot. Generally my right hand is on the C100/C300 side handle, my left hand on the lens. I still use manual focus a good amount (even if it's only 20% of the time on say a run n gun shoot, that's still fairly often), and also need the hand there to control the zoom on my zoom lens. So what third hand would I touch the touch screen with?

I've used the 70D some and the XC-10, so I have some experience with the touch screen. I still don't like it for controlling camera settings (such as WB on the 70D, which is a pain), but for focus it's nice to have and can speed up things in some cases. Using the joystick can take extra time; you can also use the dial on the side of the C300 to more quickly move to I think four different focus points, which is sometimes quicker than using the joystick. The joystick is very precise, perhaps more so than the touch screen. Touch screen is probably quicker, though. But as with the three hands, you can't touch the touch screen without moving your hand from its other position, so it could take longer in some circumstances and mess up your shot if you're doing it mid-shot.

Ideally the camera would have both, like my Mazda CX-5 SUV, so then you could choose which to use depending on the situation.


Also, has anyone else had the idea to mount the C300/C100 handle on the left hand grip while putting the 18-80 handgrip on the right handle? Oh my gosh, this is awesome. Full C300 joystick control, auto-focus toggle, record, and ISO, all at the tip of your camera stable finger tips. Can always move the hand up to the lens if you need to focus manually.


 
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That's a clever idea if you are using the 18-80. Very smart.

I have to say, the more I study the Varicam LT, the more I realize how bad the design of the C300 MKII is. The eyepiece is in the wrong place, those two cables from the back to power audio and monitor are so out of date, it looks as if they were added on as an after thought after the body was designed. For pete's sake Canon, at least route them along the body with clips. Don't get me wrong, I love the 300 MKII but from an intelligent design and ergonomic standpoint, the camera is a disaster, we all make it work in spite of it's terrible design flaws. I'm far from a designer but you can tell that the engineers who designed the C300 MKII probably never shoot footage under real production circumstances themselves, the camera is riddled with bad decisions on where to put things and how to implement them.

No cameras are immune from bad design, the decision to omit physical audio level controls on the Varicam LT is amazingly, glaringly bad, the value of a semi-detachable control planel on a camera that is so oriented to handheld shooting is questionable whereas it imakes great sense on the V35. Hoping that the next generation of new cameras, hopefully beginning with the C200/C100 MKII and the new Panasonic mystery cameras rethink some of these flaws. I give Sony props, at least the form factor of the FS7 is decent, although Sony gets spanked for "absolute worse menu system on a digital cinema camera" award. Why do all of the manufacturers only let filmmakers see and play with a camera once it's in beta? The camera design could be made so much better with some input from real camera ops who shoot real projects with these cameras on tight deadlines in the real world. Engineers and industrial designers are not camera ops. Variable ND like Sony has on the FS5 and FS7 MKII should be standard on ALL digital cinema cameras. A control grip handle like the new Zacuto that rotates up out of the way quickly should be standard on all digital cinema cameras, right? Who would want to NOT be able to lay their camera with a extrension grip on a flat surface?
 
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puredrifting said:
A control grip handle like the new Zacuto that rotates up out of the way quickly should be standard on all digital cinema cameras, right? Who would want to NOT be able to lay their camera with a extrension grip on a flat surface?
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The Shape arm I got for the 18-80 is quickly adjustable at the press of a button. Zacuto's arm for the 18-80 has a ball bearing for which you need to tighten it down very hard to get it rigid; in the end it's not as rigid or as quick as the Shape setup which is around one third the price, so I much prefer Shape's setup. I already own Zacuto's relocator as seen on the left side in the video above and I don't like it. I need to buy another Shape handle for the left handle and then either Shape's C100/C300 relocator or just use the Wooden Camera relocator I just bought and attach it to the Shape arm via the rosette.

I'm a fan of two handles for operation, which also happens to make setting the camera down on a flat surface possible without retracting a arm.


Also, Dan, I feel like it would be nice if you prefaced your "C100 ergonomics are bad" comments with, "For my style of shooting," as your blanket statements of its design do not apply to everyone, such as myself where I often prefer say the C100's ergonomics over any other camera in existence, depending on the shoot, and I'm not alone on this preference.

I actually don't use the C300 Mark II's eyepiece that often because the LCD screen is so bright; it's brighter than a 502. I rarely even need a sunhood outdoors, though I have one if I do need it. Compared to the Varicam, which doesn't even have a decent on board LCD screen (no, that tiny control module is not what I consider a decent screen to use as your primary screen for camera operation). For most of my work I prefer working with an LCD screen more than using a viewfinder. The C300 Mark II has both, the FS7 and Varicam only have one. So, I guess one could complain about its location, but, my complaint is that the FS7 doesn't even have a dedicated viewfinder, which is a much bigger issue in my eyes than a poorly placed viewfinder, and that the Varicam doesn't even have a real on-board LCD screen. If you bought the C700 viewfinder for the C300 Mark II, then you'd be in a pretty similar situation to having a Varicam with the Varicam viewfinder.

Arri Amira has an LCD screen and a viewfinder, both in a good location, and pretty adjustable.
 
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laverdir said:
@cpreston & @Mitch Gross

1DC, 1DX Mark II and 5D Mark IV (listed by crop size) all have 4k (and HD) in this crop sizes: 'slightly larger then' Super 35mm, 1.3(3) and 1.74.

18-80 has plenty enough image circle, confirmation here, here and here.







The interest for this combination clearly exist:

Will this lens cover the 1.33 crop sensor size of the Canon 1Dx Mark II?
Having just got a 1DX II, I am also interested in knowing if this lens will cover 1.3x ie APS-H sensor area.
I'm curious if I can use this lens with the Canon 1dx mark ii?
I wonder if it fully works on a 1DC (in the S35mm mode).

Canon just have to enable DPAF for that lens in firmware (for 1DX MII, 5D MIV and, of course, 7D MII/70D/77D/80D).
But they won't.

@puredrifting

My opinion is just pure speculation, as this whole thread is, based on history and logic.

Ask Eric if it's a joy moving focus with joystick. Or it can be done faster, easier and more precise with touchscreen.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what do you do when you switch to photo mode? Take the time to switch lenses?
 
Eric Coughlin said:
The Shape arm I got for the 18-80 is quickly adjustable at the press of a button. Zacuto's arm for the 18-80 has a ball bearing for which you need to tighten it down very hard to get it rigid; in the end it's not as rigid or as quick as the Shape setup which is around one third the price, so I much prefer Shape's setup. I already own Zacuto's relocator as seen on the left side in the video above and I don't like it. I need to buy another Shape handle for the left handle and then either Shape's C100/C300 relocator or just use the Wooden Camera relocator I just bought and attach it to the Shape arm via the rosette.

I'm a fan of two handles for operation, which also happens to make setting the camera down on a flat surface possible without retracting a arm.


Also, Dan, I feel like it would be nice if you prefaced your "C100 ergonomics are bad" comments with, "For my style of shooting," as your blanket statements of its design do not apply to everyone, such as myself where I often prefer say the C100's ergonomics over any other camera in existence, depending on the shoot, and I'm not alone on this preference.

I actually don't use the C300 Mark II's eyepiece that often because the LCD screen is so bright; it's brighter than a 502. I rarely even need a sunhood outdoors, though I have one if I do need it. Compared to the Varicam, which doesn't even have a decent on board LCD screen (no, that tiny control module is not what I consider a decent screen to use as your primary screen for camera operation). For most of my work I prefer working with an LCD screen more than using a viewfinder. The C300 Mark II has both, the FS7 and Varicam only have one. So, I guess one could complain about its location, but, my complaint is that the FS7 doesn't even have a dedicated viewfinder, which is a much bigger issue in my eyes than a poorly placed viewfinder, and that the Varicam doesn't even have a real on-board LCD screen. If you bought the C700 viewfinder for the C300 Mark II, then you'd be in a pretty similar situation to having a Varicam with the Varicam viewfinder.

Arri Amira has an LCD screen and a viewfinder, both in a good location, and pretty adjustable.
Click to expand...

I'll have to check out the Shape setup. After going through two of Zacuto Grip Relocators (they keep malfunctioning) I too bought the Wooden Camera grip relocator, I am using it with the Tilta 6.5" Arri Rosette extension arms attached to the Wooden Camera Double Arri Rosette to 15mm rail adapter. Works great, but the release to move the arm up isn't QR, you have to unscrew it, which is a bit inconvenient. So far, the Wooden has been flawless.

I sometimes use two arms, I bought a dummy arm for the left side but I am kind of liking one hand on the right only more lately since I usually have the left hand on the lens, working zoom and sometimes focus. If you get the balance point nailed, one handle works great, but different strokes.

As far as the ergos, that is personal preference but I am echoing the words of several DP and camera op colleagues who I sometimes work with and rent multiple C series cameras for. I do like the C100 ergos for gimbal, slider and tripod and it's even workable for short little stretches to shoot handheld, held out in front of you. But for shoulder mount, all of the EOS cameras besides the C700 are awful, I am just tired of Franken rigs. Remember too that you are a Steadicam shooter, I am not. So in a lot of situations you would shoot Steadicam, I am shooting shoulder mounted while you have a nice, smooth Steadicam to shoot with. I have the Letus Helx JR. but it has the same old issues of being fairly heavy and you hold it in front of you, I can go about 10 minutes, then I have to put it down and let my muscles regenerate. Maybe I need to rig it up on a Steadicam-like vest and arm? I am in the midst of shooting a long form documentary feature and it has mostly been handheld other than interviews so the EOS Cinema cameras have become frustrating to work with. The Zacuto VCT Plus is great, the Wooden Grip Relocator has been good too, it's just the big picture of having to buy, set up and adjust all of this extra frou frou gets old. I miss shooting with cameras like the F900, original Varicam and our Sony DSR-500 where you just grabbed the camera, slung it on your shoulder and shot. No stupid rigging, adjusting, tweaking, cables all over the place, extra batteries for recorders and EVFs like my Zacuto EVF Pro, it just worked and you didn't have to spend thousands of extra dollars to make it work, even though most of those cameras cost more than an Amira.

Yes, the Arri Amira has superb ergos compared to the EOS C cameras. Love that Arri eyepiece/screen. As far as the Varicam LT, yes I agree, the tiny on-board is too small to be of much use. But the eyepiece is so good and even though I could not afford the Panasonic, the Graticle Eye isn't bad either. On board monitor? When needed, the new Small HD five inch would be cheap and better than any of the Canon, Sony or other monitors and 5" is the perfect size.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I actually don't use the C300 Mark II's eyepiece that often because the LCD screen is so bright; it's brighter than a 502. I rarely even need a sunhood outdoors, though I have one if I do need it. For most of my work I prefer working with an LCD screen more than using a viewfinder.
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sigh.


Kids these days. What are you gonna do?? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
 
Don't know if this has been mentioned here, so apologies if it has, but C200 will announce next week. C300 form factor, 4k internal, S35, Cfast, is all I know.
 
Liam Hall said:
Don't know if this has been mentioned here, so apologies if it has, but C200 will announce next week. C300 form factor, 4k internal, S35, Cfast, is all I know.
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Verifiable source or at least a source with a track record if it is an internal leak you cannot mention?
 
Okay Liam, I am coming back to this thread next weekend to either congratulate you on your connections or to berate you for listening to gossip not based in reality ;-)
 
puredrifting said:
The C300 MKII doesn't have a touch screen for AF, nor does the C100 MKII, what makes you believe a C200 would?
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I will be extremely disappointed if this new C200 (or whatever it'll be called) doesn't have touchscreen auto focus. Canon's DPAF has become indispensable for the type of work I do, and the touchscreen on my 1DX II is fantastic. Looking forward to next week!
 
I can't remember the last time 2 major cinema cameras were announced (with detailed info) at the same time. Probably at a NAB sometime.

I wonder if CR will say anything about it next week.
 
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