The Butcher and the Fox -- a film by AJ Brooks

AJ Brooks said:
And Kholi, another filmmaker making a feature. Now I'm really the odd man out!

Gotta fix that. :)
Click to expand...

I think you should definitely move to a feature, and I don't think you would have any problem in the field if you're going in with a script that's pretty decent. You've obviously got access to what you need and it seems like a drive to do it on any budget.

From experience: go outside of your comfort zone and see what others think, and really try to see what they're saying. It took me a while to do that, and I learned a lot of hard lessons on Superseeds that I won't be repeating again. It all can be solved by having people who want to see you succeed involved in the process from the beginning, and really hearing what they have to say.

I just sent hit you upon FB as well, but let's chat it up sometime soon, man.
 
Shawn Philip Nelson said:
I used to think that way, then I learned to love my audience :)

Lol, okay, sorry, thats a bit cheeky (btw, loved your short Negative Image). No diss against you or AJ. I do agree that we dont need On the Nose Dialogue, nor do we need radio'sque volumes of verbage, but at some point if enough of your audience doesnt 'get it', at least at some level, you're not really communicating as a filmmaker. I struggle with this like crazy. My current short 'Grid Down' has some confusion due to the brevity, and my earlier shorts like 'Aetas' and 'Ossian' confused the hell out of most reviewers it seems. It's a tough balance to find, ...
Click to expand...

With respect Shawn I disagree. This is why I say it takes more discipline and talent. To do it well is the pinnacle of the craft. If you're leaving people confused then you're not doing it well :-/ (thats not aimed at you, but a general statement). One way out is to go back to heavy handed exposition so your audience 'get it', which is fine, but takes little skill. The other is to get better at the craft of storytelling so the audience get it without the need for spoon feeding dialogue.

Ok not everyone wants to make Fantasia, but on the nose dialogue/backstory is sloppy. AJ attempted to use subtext in his writing. Done well it doesn't confuse, but makes a story much more powerful. That IMO is why we should aspire to it, and not shy from it. One of the most common rules of screenwriting is that you should never have the truth of scene on the surface, and this goes for films easily digestible, Tarantino (who is a master of subtext) through to rom-coms.

I'm sure AJ knows what he has to do more than anyone, but he's always been a film-maker who tells his stories primarily with visuals, and now I see where he's using dialogue he's stepping in completely the right direction. I would hate for AJ to read all the feedback here and dumb down. I would encourage him to continue on this path and not cop out to an expository way of telling stories.
 
Shawn Philip Nelson said:
I used to think that way, then I learned to love my audience :)

Lol, okay, sorry, thats a bit cheeky (btw, loved your short Negative Image). No diss against you or AJ. I do agree that we dont need On the Nose Dialogue, nor do we need radio'sque volumes of verbage, but at some point if enough of your audience doesnt 'get it', at least at some level, you're not really communicating as a filmmaker. I struggle with this like crazy. My current short 'Grid Down' has some confusion due to the brevity, and my earlier shorts like 'Aetas' and 'Ossian' confused the hell out of most reviewers it seems. It's a tough balance to find, lets not lean one way or the other, if we want to have an audience that is.

Why I learned to Stop Worrying And Love My Audience :-D
Click to expand...

This is specially true when you did The Rook Moves. Simple, yet precise on giving your audience what they need to know instead of wanting all the facts. When Lily first asked Dr. Thomas about Jake we knew somewhat that she must have been an intern or an associate. The reassurance and clarity response from Dr. Thomas signified that she was in fact his assistant. This is all part of the dialogue-driven storytelling skills. You've struck a chord here and I encourage you to continue doing so.

I loved how you and your team created Grid Down. It was a nostalgic horror piece that has taken place numerous times throughout the US. Minor situation at first, but then turns into a catastrophic scenario where survival heightens and becomes the highest priority among families, neighbors, and individuals fighting over their basic needs neglecting any sort of emotions or mentality towards one another. Provided that we see the turnout of the city after 18+ days w/o water and food would have been a better approach in establishing the place and time of event. If the dialogue didn't provide enough clarification, then we move to the visuals to support the story. I literally was wondering what the heck was happening considering all we saw was inside the house with a very detailed time lapse. When the 18+ day came up, I felt compelled in knowing why exactly they had lost electricity and water. I tried connecting the dots of them being unable to go out and buy food for whatever reason, but was left confused. Then, came the convoys and soldiers. Ah ha! Must have been a quarantine of some kind due to a city-wide or nation-wide event, but still no sign of why it happened. Now that I know it was suppose to be a 9-10 minute piece cut down to 6 for festival entry, I can't wait to actually see the entire form without any obvious limitations and obstructions.

The Butcher and the Fox I enjoyed as well not because I worked on it, but storytelling-wise hit a lot of the marks starting with the 5 W questions. We tried clarifying some of the details and shots before picture lock and ended up with what we have now. Couple of particular shots I would have liked was an establishment of the empty living room and the exterior of the house to indicate that it's safe and quiet should that a person was around would have been noticed by both the father and the son, thus, causing a distortion to their world. The father was telling his son a scary story of a boy who went to the butcher, which was both supported by the dialogue and flashback sequences. Then came the score and sound design for this story that the boy was re-imagining. We had to make it sound bigger-than-life because the son was small compared to this butcher monster of ours and also that it was a make-believe fairytale. Since only the boy was daydreaming of the event happening to him, we needed to exaggerate this monster from within his thoughts (dolly-in shot of the boy). Just a story right? He dreams of the butcher coming after him provided with a edited version of "I gotta pay the sitter" to "I gotta pay the butcher ... my liver" and became startled by the sound of something outside his doorway. Same thing happens again when the mother tells him the story of the fox.

I get a good laugh from these two because it feels like one specific team of filmmakers were split to create two unique pieces!
 
I don't think the suggestion was that AJ would craft more accessible stories expressing complex ideas by dumbing down Darkline, just by honing that technique. I don't think my initial difficulty in getting the best out of the story was a result of it being too smart for me ;)

I think AJ's done a great job, should deffo be in the top 3, and if it wins would be a worthy winner too - but lets not make a critique specific to this film for a specific issue a kind of general matter of principle about whether films should be obvious or not. I think the points raised were about what could make the films artistic expression even more effective.

For some they might imagine that is by dumbing down, god knows i don't, but neither should one miss it blatantly. Now im sure im one of the most pretentious arty farty filmmakers here, or at least among em' so i in particular appreciate the challenges in making films like this - but also in discussing the critique for films that deal with metaphor etc. Just gets all very subjective doesn't it haha
 
lawriejaffa said:
I don't think the suggestion was that AJ would craft more accessible stories expressing complex ideas by dumbing down Darkline, just by honing that technique. I don't think my initial difficulty in getting the best out of the story was a result of it being too smart for me ;)

I think AJ's done a great job, should deffo be in the top 3, and if it wins would be a worthy winner too - but lets not make a critique specific to this film for a specific issue a kind of general matter of principle about whether films should be obvious or not. I think the points raised were about what could make the films artistic expression even more effective.

For some they might imagine that is by dumbing down, god knows i don't, but neither should one miss it blatantly. Now im sure im one of the most pretentious arty farty filmmakers here, or at least among em' so i in particular appreciate the challenges in making films like this - but also in discussing the critique for films that deal with metaphor etc. Just gets all very subjective doesn't it haha
Click to expand...

It does and I agree with you here. If some people are confused I'm not implying there are too dumb to get it. Probably more that AJ is still working on his craft, which he admitted. I like the direction he's heading though. One aspect I loved about your own 'so brightly in the dark' was a similar technique which used a folk story as a metaphor for a confused mind. That also prompted a lot of discussion, even with me. But as lazy exposition is a particular bug of mine I always appreciate attempts to tell a story uniquely.

Anyway, congrats AJ, well deserved and finally you got the top spot. Pleased for you.
 
Yeah agreed lazy exposition is exhausting and its a far harder habit to break in my opinion than finding creative ways to make ones artistic expression more accessible. Doubly agreed i too am excited by the direction AJ's heading in, (and i think its a worthy direction for filmmakers to take note of too exactly because it shows that emulating the latest jj abrams series or hollywood blockbuster is not the be and end all.)
 
Congrats, AJ.

Never did get a chance to view it again, but it seems pointless now, what does it matter? One thing to consider, had this been played at a film festival, you would not have left the audience satisfied. It's not about being sophisticated in your craft, it's about grabbing the audience's short attention span (in short films far worse than movies) and keep them entertained throughout.

Out of the box is great, but a confusing box where paying costumers are concerned, not so much. So keep that in mind when you make a feature.
 
She's brutal (like every guy on this forums future ex-wife) but she is right.

You deserved to win - but she's still kinda right. And in your head you might think hell no - no1 is vindication (and it is actually, of your talented entry and awesome work but...) lady has a point, and that takes NOTHING away from your accomplishment for making a cool and awesome movie - plus coming no1. (Just put it in your mental black book) and it aint a hard thing to fix either, your smart enough to produce arty and clever ****, so a little bit of hood work is gonna be no sweat for ya.
 
Oh AJ, I'm such a thorn in your side. Would you have it any other way? lol, don't answer that.
 
AJ - you got that right, had you had dialogue I think that puppy would have flown at the festivals. One of your best works, "Sente"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top