Re: Sony A7RII - FIRST video sample!!!

[Samuel H]

Also means no more need to complain about lack of e-mount lenses

I don't think those complaints have merit anymore, and not just because of the adaptability of A-mount lenses, which was always there (though maybe not working as well as now). Sony has been very aggressive on the lens front too. I could do 99% of what I currently do just with a Batis 25mm f/2.0, a Sony 55mm f/1.8, and a Batis 85mm f/1.8.

The adapters working better is a great thing for people who already own lots of expensive Canon or A-mount lenses.

 

[Cosimo Bullo]

For a hybrid stills/video shooter with a lot of Canon glass (me), this looks like a dream camera.

 

[photochris]

"PDAF will work even with third-party lenses via existing adapters, including in continuous AF tracking mode. This is potentially a huge deal – especially for Canon users. We’ve used an a7R II with a Canon 24-70mm lens and a Metabones adapter, and focus is indeed very fast indeed. We’ll be looking at this in more depth as soon as we have a production sample camera, but for now, we’re highly impressed."

If this is true then my 7D Mark II is gone gone gone!

The guys over at Imaging Resource have tons of info on the new cameras. There's a Q&A at the bottom in the comments section with info about really fast AF with Canon lenses. There's also a reported claim from Sony that the A7rII can focus faster than a Canon body with Canon lenses, but its unclear if they're comparing it to a Canon in live view mode or not. Tests will soon reveal all though, it still sounds promising.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...ii-announced-were-blogging-live-from-the-pres

 

[SuperSet]

Can this camera be considered the successor to the A7s or only complementary?

 

[DLD]

I don't think those complaints have merit anymore, and not just because of the adaptability of A-mount lenses, which was always there (though maybe not working as well as now) ... The adapters working better is a great thing for people who already own lots of expensive Canon or A-mount lenses.

On B&H, they list new&improved versions of the old standard A-mount zooms as "available for preorder". Sony must have been preparing for these very high resolution cameras for a while.

The new zooms ain't cheap though, the same price as the older designs.

Can this camera be considered the successor to the A7s or only complementary?

A7R MK II only seems inferior to A7s with regard to the low light performance and even there marginally. Otherwise, it has a superior resolution and the internal 4K.

Of course, the recording bit rate is crippled, as to not to infringe on the FS7 territory.

 

[Finster]

So there's image stabilization on the sensor itself, right? That's wild. So then there's no need for the lens to have IS???

Does the A7s also have image stabilization on the sensor?

 

[Kilrah]

Does the A7s also have image stabilization on the sensor?

No, prior to the A7RII only the A7II had sensor stabilization. The "first-gen" models don't have it.

Can this camera be considered the successor to the A7s or only complementary?

Guess we'll need "real" tests to know that for sure. But given some existing tests showing that the A7R and A7S actually already have very similar noise characteristics at similar output sizes for stills I wouldn't imagine a low pixel count version to be really required especially with the added benefit of the newer sensor.

I bought a 2nd hand A7S a week ago and was precisely saying "how cool would it be to have the features of the 7II, 7R and 7S all in one..." well there we go. "Fortunately" the 7RII will only be out in August and I'll have a bunch of stuff to shoot in July, otherwise I'd really have been grinding my teeth.
I also shoot photo and on Sony equipment so it's not a video-only investment for me, so the 7RII would definitely be a worthy upgrade on all fronts.

 

[DLD]

BTW, s35 should be a 1.4 crop, so a 25mm Batis becomes 35mm.

 

[optitek]

Noooooooo!!!! Please not again. The lens doesn't "become" anything. It's still a 25mm. On a smaller format. Please no more of this nonsense ;-)

 

[ROCKMORE]

Noooooooo!!!! Please not again. The lens doesn't "become" anything. It's still a 25mm. On a smaller format. Please no more of this nonsense ;-)

He might possibly have been referring to a 35mm FOV. The focal length doesn't change, but it does crop the field.

 

[optitek]

It may have been marginally useful 20 years ago during the digital transition from film. In 2015 if one does not know what 25mm looks like on a S35 (more or less aps) sensor they may be in the wrong line of work ;-)

 

[Kilrah]

Means all those old (and cheap) Minolta and Sony a-mount lenses now have a new lease on life.

Just remember that the LA-EA3 will only AF with SSM lenses, not the screw-drive "old" lenses as it doesn't have a focus motor. You still need the LA-EA4 to have AF on those even if the mirror and AF sensor are likely useless on the A7R II.
Will be interesting to see how that camera makes use of both the SLT tech in the LA-EA4 and its own on-sensor PDAF by the way. Someone will have to try and pop out the mirror on the LA-EA4... rogar-Smoke(DBG):

 

[cpc]

A7R MK II only seems inferior to A7s with regard to the low light performance and even there marginally. Otherwise, it has a superior resolution and the internal 4K.

A7r II probably has more rolling shutter artefacts in s35 mode and more moire/aliasing in FF mode compared to the A7s.

 

[Samuel H]

I think we have to wait for tests about the rolling shutter. The BSI design can help a lot in this front (you get a lot more space for electronics when you don't have to worry about them blocking the light). I'm not sure if it will be enough to beat the a7S, so, wait and see.

And regarding aliasing/moire, I just posted this on the other thread (btw, closing one thread with a link to the other one might be a good idea...)

I think moire will be very minor in the FF 4K mode of the a7R II. It's only skipping half of the rows (the 5D2 was skipping two thirds of its rows), and they are so close together that you'd need a really sharp lens and a very fine pattern to get moire to show up. Going technical: you'll need a lens that resolves at least 1280 line pairs per image height. A good prime can give you that only in the center of the image. A not-so-great prime, or a zoom, not even there. Link with lots of lp/ih numbers from a7R tests.

Plus, the Sony moire is usually monochrome, nowhere as bad as the flying rainbows from Canon.

Aliasing will probably appear more often, but it is much less of a problem than moire. I'd worry more about the bad rescaling algorithms of youtube and vimeo than about the line skipping on the a7R II.

 

[evilthought]

I think this is really good news as well, buried in the press release:

Means all those old (and cheap) Minolta and Sony a-mount lenses now have a new lease on life.
.

This is not totally true as most of those old lenses don't have builtin motor, and LAEA3 and LAEA1 don't have motors. Sony needs to release LAEA5 to fix this

I suspect a A9 (or whatever it's named) will be hybrid camera with removable A mount adapter and large 5D style body

 

[Reality Studio]

This is not totally true as most of those old lenses don't have builtin motor, and LAEA3 and LAEA1 don't have motors. Sony needs to release LAEA5 to fix this

I suspect a A9 (or whatever it's named) will be hybrid camera with removable A mount adapter and large 5D style body

Ah that's right someone else mentioned that earlier as well, my mistake. It would have been interesting if all that old Minolta glass was suddenly fully auto focus friendly though especially given how cheap many of them are.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

It may have been marginally useful 20 years ago during the digital transition from film. In 2015 if one does not know what 25mm looks like on a S35 (more or less aps) sensor they may be in the wrong line of work ;-)

He wants to calculate the FF equivalent of certain lens when used on s35/APS-C. Does that offend you optitek? Sorry if it does. If so, don't read the next:

Yes, the 25mm Loxia, shooting UHD at s35 mode (the ideal UHD mode on the A7RII) will give it a field of view of around 35mm (give or take 1-2 millimeters) and a FF depth of field equivalent to F/3, with F/2 exposure luminance. So if you're used to FF numbers it will look just like a 35mm F/3 lens. Great thing about A7RII though, is that FF UHD does exist and if you're willing to take a slight hit of aliasing/rolling shutter it will act as a normal 25mm F/2 and be used to it's full image circle at sharp UHD.

Long lenses with shallow depth of field for beauty shots are not noticeably affected by moire/aliasing as wide angles, so the 85mm F/1.8 Loxia with OIS + IBIS at FF UHD mode will produce some never before seen images with a wow effect. Ultra sharp UHD video handheld steady extremely shallow depth of field. Than you can turn to APS-C and get a 130mm F/2.8 stabilized prime.

This is a very unique camera and lenses. A7RII shooting at s35 mode for wide shots with a wide lens (11-16mm, 10-18mm, 12-24mm, 14-24mm, 11-24mm, etc) plus the 85mm loxia for close ups & everything else, all handheld, I can see my self shooting an entire movie with this in my hand and two lenses.

 

[Samuel H]

I've watched the sample videos a couple of times now, and I'm worried about the bitrate.

Maybe it's just a youtube thing, but I'm not seeing that on many other videos shot with other cameras, and 100 Mbps is low for 4K if you're not using H.265.

It's most obvious in the RX100 IV video (in the part with the kids running and the bubbles), but it happens in the a7R II videos too: detail in the grass and trees and fine textures "pulsates" (it gets progressively blurry, then suddenly sharp again when an I frame arrives).

If anyone gets to test one of these cameras, or gets his hands on some original XAVC-S files, please check this out.

Maybe a higher bitrate is what they'll use to get people to buy the a7S II?

 

[bill totolo]

I've watched the sample videos a couple of times now, and I'm worried about the bitrate.

Maybe it's just a youtube thing, but I'm not seeing that on many other videos shot with other cameras, and 100 Mbps is low for 4K if you're not using H.265.

It's most obvious in the RX100 IV video (in the part with the kids running and the bubbles), but it happens in the a7R II videos too: detail in the grass and trees and fine textures "pulsates" (it gets progressively blurry, then suddenly sharp again when an I frame arrives).

If anyone gets to test one of these cameras, or gets his hands on some original XAVC-S files, please check this out.

Maybe a higher bitrate is what they'll use to get people to buy the a7S II?

This is what'll keep us attached to external recorders. We'll want higher bit rate 10 bit422 (or higher) and I'l be willing to jump through hoops to get it.

 

[goodgoings]

This is what'll keep us attached to external recorders. We'll want higher bit rate 10 bit422 (or higher) and I'l be willing to jump through hoops to get it.

If a 4K external recorder is necessary with the a7R II, besides the 5-axis stabilization, it doesn't seem to offer anything new for video the a7S can already do.