ugafan
Looking for a woman
where is the link to the video?
New to DSLR - Audio?
- Thread starter Hawk Teflon
- Start date
where is the link to the video?
GoodLuck
Well-known member
All the dvxfest films go live Saturday. I'll get you a link when I get one.
rogar-Shock(DBG):There's an extension to use with the juicedlink preamps to bypass the cameras preamp.
Juicedlink's preamps are noticably less noisy than the H4N.
A cheap setup with juicedlink and Rode NTG shotgun mic already can deliver very good results. Of course it depends on how you define "professional" audio.
I think best to do so is by listening at it, not looking at data sheets.
There have been scientific studies about the difference of recording audio at 44kHz and 96kHz. During the field tests, not any difference could be noticed by the probands who listened to live audio first and then the recorded 44kHz and 96kHz audio, both in random order. Probands have been "normal" people as well as audio engineers. The advantage of higher sample rates is still all just theory.
Also, 24bit recordings don't sound different than 16bit recordings, though it's nice to have the additional headroom when recording...an orchestra. You can always convert 16bit audio to 32bit fp for post processing, so that's not really a sound quality measurement either.
Get through the field tests comparing several affordable DSLR recording solutions. Listen to them with studio headphones if you can!
http://provideocoalition.com/index....ons_for_hybrid_cameras_a_study_by_p2pictures/
H4N and juicedlink are the winners in their category, with juicedlink being the clear overall winner as it provides the best audio quality and lowest noise level. These tests have been made without bypassing the cameras preamp.
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GoodLuck
Well-known member
Here you go, shot on 550d t2i and entered in the dvx betrayalfest.
open for viewing...
http://www.dvxfest.com/betrayalfest/index.php?id=3900719
littleonepushin
New member
Hawk Teflon
Veteran
manglerBMX
Veteran
beachtek also has their new audio boxes for dslr's.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa5da.html
and
http://www.beachtek.com/dxaslr.html
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa5da.html
and
http://www.beachtek.com/dxaslr.html
vegas06
Well-known member
As was stated earlier, if you want to get the cleanest audio, it's best to record off camera (you can get too much unwanted noise from recording on camera, lens gears focusing, buttons being pushed, poor pre amps etc.), then sync in post. Syncing in post isn't difficult, and as suggested earlier, there are great plugins that will sync all of your audio for you with just one click.
For those who haven't seen, Introducing Plural Eyes
For those who haven't seen, Introducing Plural Eyes
Bypassing cameras preamps
Bypassing cameras preamps
Thanks for all that info... so... how do you bypass the cameras preamps?
If i use the Juicedlink with the 5d MKII... it still has to use the cameras A to D converter though, of course....?
Any additional info would be aweseome.
Thanks!
Bypassing cameras preamps
Thanks for all that info... so... how do you bypass the cameras preamps?
If i use the Juicedlink with the 5d MKII... it still has to use the cameras A to D converter though, of course....?
Any additional info would be aweseome.
Thanks!
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
The Beachteks are noisy as all get out.
Chris Santucci
Veteran
Both the JL and BT stuff are known to be noisy. I have used the JL stuff on multiple projects and at the time I chose that gear over the BT stuff because it was supposed to be quieter and it wasn't nearly quiet enough.
You need to either record double system sound OR feed the camera a high quality signal (from a high quality preamp like the Shure FP24 or Sound Devices Mixpre) with the camera gain set to about 7 steps from the bottom.
Thanks Chris.
May I ask which mic you used with the JL? I've got a Rode NTG-3. Thanks for the tips on pre-amps too... but if I'm going for the under $300 range... I've heard that JL is at least the quietest in that price point, right?
Chris Santucci
Veteran
I mostly used a Sennheiser 416 shotgun mic.
I had a lot of RF and noise issues with the JL piece I had and ended up returning it.
Here's some stuff that might help:
http://cheesycam.com/inexpensive-dual-xlr-microphone-preamp/
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...preamp-as-alternative-to-Beachtek-Juicedlink&
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/591714-cheap-portable-preamp.html
I had a lot of RF and noise issues with the JL piece I had and ended up returning it.
Here's some stuff that might help:
http://cheesycam.com/inexpensive-dual-xlr-microphone-preamp/
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...preamp-as-alternative-to-Beachtek-Juicedlink&
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/591714-cheap-portable-preamp.html
Using Sound Devices pre with h4n or direct to 5d
Using Sound Devices pre with h4n or direct to 5d
I know the 416 is widely used, and often compared to the NTG-3, do you think the 416 is a winner?
Using the H4N for phantom power in the field chews batteries quickly also, so I was looking for something that could supply phantom power, with a nice pre-amp, and give the option of going to my H4N, or maybe direct into the 5D MK II, depending on the application.
Thanks for saying the Juiced Link wasn't quiet enough, I don't think I'll get it.
So I was looking at some of the Sound Devices options, and I noticed, in addition to MixPre models, there was a single input model: MM-1 Single Channel Portable Microphone Preamp. In your opinion would something like this provide really good audio going to the H4N, or even the camera?
Will probably still stick to dual system, just wondering what you reckon.
Thanks so much!
Using Sound Devices pre with h4n or direct to 5d
Hey Chris, Thanks for all the tips. I'm changing my tune on budget though. The more I experiment, the more I want better sound. I'm not really crazy about my NTG-3 at the moment, it seems to pick up too much off-axis sound.
I know the 416 is widely used, and often compared to the NTG-3, do you think the 416 is a winner?
Using the H4N for phantom power in the field chews batteries quickly also, so I was looking for something that could supply phantom power, with a nice pre-amp, and give the option of going to my H4N, or maybe direct into the 5D MK II, depending on the application.
Thanks for saying the Juiced Link wasn't quiet enough, I don't think I'll get it.
So I was looking at some of the Sound Devices options, and I noticed, in addition to MixPre models, there was a single input model: MM-1 Single Channel Portable Microphone Preamp. In your opinion would something like this provide really good audio going to the H4N, or even the camera?
Will probably still stick to dual system, just wondering what you reckon.
Thanks so much!
Exactly where and how are you implementing the NTG-3? While the NTG-3 does have a slightly wider pickup than the 416, it shouldn't be picking up off-axis sound. I've found the NTG-3 to have remarkable off-axis rejection (I have one in my kit... after years of using a 416), so I would have to suspect the problem is not the mic but how it is used. If it's indoors, I would expect poor sound.
The 416 certainly is a good mic, but if you take some time to get to know the NTG-3 I think you'll find it to be a reliable tool.
It should also be noted that the 416, which has been a professional standard for decades now, is not compared to the NTG-3. It's the other way around. The NTG-3 is RØDE's answer to the 416, and it offers a competitive mic at a lower price... so good, in fact, that Sennheiser dropped the price on their 416 in response to the NTG-3's sudden rise in popularity.
Be aware that the H4n cannot take true line-level in. What they call "line" in is actually "instrument" in, which is a very different beast. This makes the use of external pre-amps and mixers a little tricky, and also makes the H4n a relatively poor choice as a recorder for use with a mixer. You can use a mixer with line-level out, and use an inline pad to drop the signal so you don't overload the H4n's inputs. You can also use a mixer with mic-level outputs and go straight into the H4n's XLRs. Either way, you aren't bypassing the H4n's pre-amps, only minimizing the extra gain needed for a proper recording level (thus minimizing any noise added by the H4n's pre-amps).
The MM-1 is a great pre-amp as far as sound. What it doesn't offer is any kind of meter. That's a pretty big blind-spot, and even though ears are the first tools for monitoring sound the meters are invaluable for gain staging and trouble-shooting.
The MixPre-D is probably your best bet for a lower-cost option. Its XLR outputs are selectable mic/line (and AES digital... great future-proofing). It also has a mic-level direct out via TA3 (mini XLR), that was designed specifically for the mic-level inputs of DSLR cameras using a TA3>3.5mm adapter cable.
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Thanks for the reply. I'm sure you're right, which is good news for me, as I'll keep practising with what I have. Yes, I wasn't crazy about the sound indoors: some echo and background noises. Is that just because of the hard surfaces? And outdoors, my main concern was that it picked up so much background noise, like traffic. But does that just mean I need to find a quieter location? Any general tips on how to get the best out of the NTG-3 appreciated: eg 18 inches from talent, outdoors, quiet location only.....?
From my understanding of what you've said, this combination would give the amplification duties to the external pre or mixer, eg Sound Devices as discussed, and as such would likely provide the cleanest signal? I'm seen someone on the internet was using an SD mixer with a pad to the to the H4N....?
Thanks!!
The closer, the better. Your effective working distance is going to be no more than 20" in order to keep the signal:background ratio acceptable with any mic. That doesn't mean that 20" is the place to be. If you can get the mic 8" away, you'll be even better off.
The reason a shotgun is generally a bad idea indoors is the same reason it's generally a great idea outdoors. The interference tube, which is what gives the shotgun its keen off-axis rejection, uses phase cancellation to reject sounds from the side. Indoors, reflections that come to the mic from hard surfaces are already out of phase, so the phase cancellation doesn't work. In fact, it just enhances the reflections and muddies the direct sound in a soup of cavernous audio.
It can work indoors, if you know how to handle it. Just don't expect miracles in very reflective rooms. If the room is carpeted, has lots of plush furniture, and has lots of absorbent materials on the walls, you won't have as many problems. If the room is very reflective, hang some sound-absorbing materials and put some area rugs down and you can improve the results. But this is not always a feasible solution, so a hypercardioid condenser like the Oktava MK012 or the Audio Technica 4053b will be a far better selection.
As for outdoors, it's all in where you point the mic. If you're pointing the mic straight at the talent (such as a mic that is camera-mounted), it is of course going to hear everything behind the talent. Keeping extraneous sound to the sides and rear of the mic will help, and it's much easier to do this with a boom. Generally, you want to bring the mic in from overhead, so that all it has to "hear" beyond the talent's voice is the ground (which isn't going to sound like much... though hard surfaces like concrete and asphalt and tarmac can be reflective). That allows you also to angle the mic so that the rear of the mic is angled more toward things like distant traffic.
It's not an ideal solution, as I said, because it doesn't bypass the H4n's pre-amps. What it does is send a stronger signal to the H4n, meaning that the pre-amps in the recorder don't need to provide much gain. That will provide cleaner results, yes... but you're still sending the signal through the Zoom's not-so-great pre-amps, so result will be better but still not the best. By getting a MixPre-D now, you can upgrade to a better recorder later and still be able to use the SD on the front end for great results.
Thanks for an awesome reply. Appreciate the knowledge. Go forums.
I've been reading up on the MixPre-D, and it sounds pretty awesome. It also sends a digital stream via usb, so you can record its digital out to a computer... or iPad! Crazy. It now would seem a bit strange to go from the MixPre-D to the Zoom H4N... do you think using that TA3 to the HDSLR would be any good? Seems it'd be better to record the digital signal.
Any good? That's kind of a matter of debate. In-camera audio is not the best option. If you cannot turn of the AGC and do not have manual audio control, there's no point in fooling with it at all. With manual control and AGC off, assuming you send the camera a strong enough signal, it can be passable. Not great, mind you, but passable. This is, though, where the debate pops up... some folks think it's just fine for them, some find it okay for ENG but not for serious "film" dialog, and others find it sub-par for just about anything. Personally, I'm not a fan of the sound that comes out of DSLR recordings.
If you have the option of second-system sound, it's generally going to be better to use that instead of recording direct to DSLR. I don't find it strange to go from the MixPre-D to the H4n. That will improve your results with the H4n, and I dare say that, despite the H4n's shortcomings, you'll get better results than in-camera. You could record to both and then compare the results.
As for the USB out... yeah, you can use it to record to computer. This may or may not be the most practical solution. With a small mixer like this, a laptop means you aren't as mobile. Having a dedicated field recorder with the MixPre-D means you can move around a bit more.