New to DSLR - Audio?

Hawk Teflon

Hawk Teflon

Veteran
I'm contemplating very strongly about making the switch from my DVX to a Canon 550D. I've done a lot of reading on this, but there's one main question I have: How does this camera get miced? I'm so used to just having an XLR port, but that's not the option here. What do you guys do for that?
 
The T2i and 7D ae great cameras for cine style shooting, but have limitations that make them poor "video cameras" Read Barry's article here

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/article.php/26

Sound on any DSLR is best done with double system. Using a recorder like the zoom H4N or Sound Devices 702 will give the best results. Look for more information in the audio sub forum. You need lots of toys to get good production sound. The setup I uses is a gitzo 12' carbon fiber boom pole, k-tek kssm shockmount, schoeps cmc641 super cardiod mic, sound devices 302 mixer and sound devices 702 recorder. I use beyerdynamic dt770 headphones. You could get by replacing the mic in my kit with an akg blueline with hypercardioid capsule and save a bundle. This kit doesn't include a shotgun an zeppelin for exteriors or wireless etc etc.
 
If you have some XLR mics then you can buy the pre-amp type devices that can cancel the in-camera AGC such as the Juicelink or Beachtek units. H4N is a popular option for sound also - and that has XLR inputs as well.
 
I am not a big fan of any of the juiced link or beachtek boxes as they still have a mini unbalanced connection between the box and the camera which is a potential source for additional noise. They also record very compressed low sample rate sound with no proper metering or monitoring. That doesn't even account for low quality preamps or a to d. Simply put, buy as zoom h4n if you are on a budget. Don't be too lazy to sync. Your end result will be much better for the same money.
 
With the new firmware announced by Canon for the 5D Mark II, you will gain manual audio control along with 24p and 25p, and a live histogram, just to name a few. If you have the 5D coupled with a juicedlink CX211 or some other preamp, you should be able to attain very good audio.
 
natxbrotha said:
With the new firmware announced by Canon for the 5D Mark II, you will gain manual audio control along with 24p and 25p, and a live histogram, just to name a few. If you have the 5D coupled with a juicedlink CX211 or some other preamp, you should be able to attain very good audio.
Click to expand...

Really? "Very good" audio? I dunno what that means, exactly, but you barely get "good" audio going directly into an EX1's XLR inputs. In no way do I believe that the audio from a 5D II will be good enough for a feature. There's just no logic in it.

I'm SOOOOOOO stoked for the firmware upgrade, though! For the longest I thought I'd have to settle for the GH1 or 7D because of the 5d II's pesky 30p. It's supposed to happen this month, right? The update? Or is it May?
 
natxbrotha said:
With the new firmware announced by Canon for the 5D Mark II, you will gain manual audio control along with 24p and 25p, and a live histogram, just to name a few. If you have the 5D coupled with a juicedlink CX211 or some other preamp, you should be able to attain very good audio.
Click to expand...

I agree that this may be a decent solution for some applications (like news clips or nat sound for b-roll on an on-camera mic... in other words, what the 5 d was designed for). I still think it is a lazy way out when you could get much much cleaner, higher res (24bit 96kHz linear PCM) audio by doing double system with the h4n for the same money. Sorry, there is no substitute for doing things the right way. The only reason you would record audio into camera is because you don't want to do the work to sync (and they make a plugin for FCP that syncs it for you now anyway).
 
My understanding is that the juicedlink's preamps are much better than that of the H4N. I've also been told by many sound guys that the difference in recording quality of production sound between 16bit 48k and 24bit 96k is exceedingly minimal. Basically - the sound guys I've talked to say that the added "resolution" so to speak isn't necessary because the human voice isn't that varied. This is obviously a different case if recording heavy duty sound effects or music.

Assuming these things are true. The juicedlink plugged into a 5d with the soon coming firmware should be an incredible option to get professional quality audio with minimal crew needed. Obviously we would all prefer a sound mixer, but some can't afford.
 
Is there a way to sync the H4N with the camera so that when you click record on the camera, it creates a file on the H4N that will be the same length? That would be pretty phenomenal.
 
No but you can use this little nifty gadget which makes it just as simple to sync in the edit suite:

597738.jpg
 
ryansheffer said:
My understanding is that the juicedlink's preamps are much better than that of the H4N. I've also been told by many sound guys that the difference in recording quality of production sound between 16bit 48k and 24bit 96k is exceedingly minimal. Basically - the sound guys I've talked to say that the added "resolution" so to speak isn't necessary because the human voice isn't that varied. This is obviously a different case if recording heavy duty sound effects or music.

Assuming these things are true. The juicedlink plugged into a 5d with the soon coming firmware should be an incredible option to get professional quality audio with minimal crew needed. Obviously we would all prefer a sound mixer, but some can't afford.
Click to expand...

This is misinformation. You will not get "professional quality audio" by plugging a mic into a camcorder, and certainly not any DSLR on the market today (and probably not ever). I'm sorry, it's just not going to happen. Can you get audio that's okay for, say, home movies or a web video? Sure. But the juicedlink doesn't bypass preamps, it simply won't impede on the existing preamps assuming that your preamps aren't better than the ones in the juicedlink (and btw, preamps aren't everything).

If you're planning on doing narrative short films or features you need a dedicated recorder.

Professionals don't even use the mic inputs on $150,000 cameras. Why would you think for a moment that the mic inputs on a $2,000 camera would deliver "professional quality audio"?

They not. It will be consumer quality audio by even the most lenient standards.

The good news is that you can get fine audio from various dedicated recorders for under $1,000. Having a Fostex FR-2LE on your hip does nothing to expand your crew.
 
Chamber005 I think you misunderstood me. I use dual system every moment I possibly can. I also, however, know it's not always possible to do so. I have heard the quality of xlr inputs on many very high end cameras and none of them even compare to the quality of my cheap H4N. I have, however, seen multiple instances where the juicedlink combined with magic lantern has given better quality than my H4N.

Here is an example. Many videos from this guy already posted around the site.
http://vimeo.com/5256305

And as far as the prosumer versus professional. I can't tell you how many times I've worked on shoots with tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear and the end result was worse audio than I can get on my H4N with a solid mixer. I'm no sound expert, but saying that you can't get professional quality from the juicedlink or an H4N is completely incorrect. Sure, it won't sound like a blockbuster movie, but our beloved 7ds/5ds don't look like an F35 either.

And for what its worth, I just produced a film that will most likely be finding its way onto ABC Family in the next few months. The sound recorder was my H4N.
 
I am saying that the H4N is the same price as juiced link but much higher quality due to sample rate, bit depth and less compression. It is the same price with better quality. Some people take the easy way out and avoid syncing. All I am saying is that the difference is real and the right way to do it is double system. People will read this for months or years and go out to buy the wrong thing based on these comments, so we need to make sure that we are offering the correct advice.

If you just want nat sound for b-roll on an on camera mic or something fast turnaround for news, it may be ok. For short films, get the sound recordist out of the camera operators way!
 
let me preface this by saying i'm a complete idiot (even more than my usual level of idiocy) when it comes to audio, so please go easy.

currently i plug my oktava into my dvx. if i were to get a canon t2i, what will i need in addition to an H4N? and is it difficult to sync audio?

edit: i already have stuff like a boom pole, shock mount, and headphones. will i need a mixer?
 
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With the H4N setup, how do you account for audio drift?

I know the time limit is 12 min, but I have seen some pretty large difference in record clocks and cameras.

I really wish they could work out the HDMI output to be able to use a Nanoflash. Then all would be good.
 
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