Bring on the 444 M4/3!! Jan! Do something, Quick!

[Wilbur Eddings]

Not at all. Just what I was looking for. Have you tried the American Film Market yet?

Not yet, currently my movies are at 50% of what I would like them to be so I don't want to be trawling unfamiliar territories yet.

I note that a lot of guys make one movie or short and then spend considerable time and money trying to get it noticed in other territories.
There is so much other competing content out there that you are actually playing a kind of creative lotto - hoping that your project is 'the next big thing'.

The American market is almost as Saturated as the Bollywood market - You really need to deliver the goods if you want to see the gold!

When I hit a home run locally, I will use those credentials to approach bigger fish.
The other option is if i providentially meet an American distributor who might take interest in my work (and is not a damn shark).

I have to say that having ten burnt fingers makes a man a lot more meticulous in his cooking strategies...

The Af100 really shines for me becuase it allows me to meet the law of averages head on.
I stand a much better chance of hitting a home run if I hit more than one ball in a year!

 

[Steve R]

I don't think he means "the American film maket" in general - but rather The American Film Market (or "AFM") expo in Santa Monica each fall for the big low-bud foreign buyer sales scramble.

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

I don't think he means "the American film maket" in general - but rather The American Film Market (or "AFM") expo in Santa Monica each fall for the big low-bud foreign buyer sales scramble.

HAHA... well then, my ignorance certainly answers that question...

 

[Lustgarten]

Wilbur, sorry to hear about your ten burnt figures. It is a jungle out there. I've run my own distribution company since 1991 after getting some of my fingers burnt in foreign distribution. I'd love to hear more about how you finance the film with product placement and how you get your local tv. Though this might deserv e a separate thread.

Steve Lustgarten
leofilms.com

 

[Mark Smith]

Wilbur, sorry to hear about your ten burnt figures. It is a jungle out there. I've run my own distribution company since 1991 after getting some of my fingers burnt in foreign distribution. I'd love to hear more about how you finance the film with product placement and how you get your local tv. Though this might deserv e a separate thread.

Steve Lustgarten
leofilms.com

Getting back to the topic ....
Back in the 2009 PGA camera shoot out Panasonic ran with the big dogs when they put the 3700 Varicam in the test. That was before Alexa and red mx, but the 3700 did shine in that test.

I 'm sure two years plus later, if there was the corporate will to make a single chip camera that would compete at the high end of the 1080 hd spectrum, Panasonic would have all the key bits of technology in house to make such a camera.


Is there an app to assess corporate will? I don't know. The 2/3rds inch market seems to be a dead end with live broadcast and broadcasters in general as the main market. I' m pretty sure the alexa and F3 are gnawing away some of that market already.

There would seem to be on the face of it, a reason for Panasonic to bring a large sensor single chip pro camera to the market..

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

He uses an AJA.



We are talking about self financed guerrilla independent features here right?
Nothing magic about the math, it's simple logic:

Lets start with the gear and work our way outwards:

The Af100 sits comfortably on a Jib, Tripod or Steadycam made for DSLR's.
Grips required: 2

Bigger Cams need to sit on heavy Dollies and much larger Cranes or Jibs.

8 ton trucks required for my gear: Zero.

Everything fits into zip up bags which fit comfortably into the back of my SUV.


Most of my lighting is LED or Natural.

The DP brings one or two blonds and reds but we rarely need them.

Generator Truck, Spark, Driver and spark assistants required: Zero

The LEDpanels plug into any wall and can run very comfortable off a standard Jennie.
We have 6 car batteries with a large UPS which is on charge via a generator (if in the field) whever we yell 'cut'.
I did an entire shoot with lights, cam and the moving head thingie on the Jib with one tank of fuel...

Focus puller? DIT? Those are really awesome luxuries but not so much required once you figure out the cool little features that come standard on the Panny.

On bigger (commissioned) projects, I still use those guys, as well as Gaffers etc. but on a micro budget Indy feature: DP and an assistant do a great job.

Grips: Jib and tracks come with an operating manual. A teenager with 5th grade could put it together and operate it. Nothing big or complicated here.
Grips trucks required: None. Everything (as previously mentioned) fits into the back of my SUV.

Sound: 3 lavs, a rifle mic and a multitrack recorder. One sound guy and two assistants.

Camera and Lenses:

40 day rental on a RED or ARRi with one or two primes costs more than the outright purchase of the Af100 and a full set of m43 lenses.


Capture: Me and the DP do our own data capture at the end of each day. It's a simple case of drag and drop into an appropriately named file.

From there the dominoes fall drastically with costs - Accommodation, food, transport etc.

MUCH cheaper!


That said, if i have the cash I will still use a small army and trucks etc. to get the job done.

But I don't so I don't.

You never cease to remind me of how the other half lives.

 

[TimurCivan]

We are talking about self financed guerrilla independent features here right?
Nothing magic about the math, it's simple logic:

Lets start with the gear and work our way outwards:

The Af100 sits comfortably on a Jib, Tripod or Steadycam made for DSLR's.
Grips required: 2

Bigger Cams need to sit on heavy Dollies and much larger Cranes or Jibs.

8 ton trucks required for my gear: Zero.

Everything fits into zip up bags which fit comfortably into the back of my SUV.


Most of my lighting is LED or Natural.

The DP brings one or two blonds and reds but we rarely need them.

Generator Truck, Spark, Driver and spark assistants required: Zero

The LEDpanels plug into any wall and can run very comfortable off a standard Jennie.
We have 6 car batteries with a large UPS which is on charge via a generator (if in the field) whever we yell 'cut'.
I did an entire shoot with lights, cam and the moving head thingie on the Jib with one tank of fuel...

Focus puller? DIT? Those are really awesome luxuries but not so much required once you figure out the cool little features that come standard on the Panny.

On bigger (commissioned) projects, I still use those guys, as well as Gaffers etc. but on a micro budget Indy feature: DP and an assistant do a great job.

Grips: Jib and tracks come with an operating manual. A teenager with 5th grade could put it together and operate it. Nothing big or complicated here.
Grips trucks required: None. Everything (as previously mentioned) fits into the back of my SUV.

Sound: 3 lavs, a rifle mic and a multitrack recorder. One sound guy and two assistants.

Camera and Lenses:

40 day rental on a RED or ARRi with one or two primes costs more than the outright purchase of the Af100 and a full set of m43 lenses.


Capture: Me and the DP do our own data capture at the end of each day. It's a simple case of drag and drop into an appropriately named file.

From there the dominoes fall drastically with costs - Accommodation, food, transport etc.

MUCH cheaper!


That said, if i have the cash I will still use a small army and trucks etc. to get the job done.

But I don't so I don't.

A 1stAC and grip are not luxuries. And if you have blondes and redheads, and you're not using them.... well. Try em out. You'll like em.

 

[grimrebes]

Sony currently has the ~$10k large sensor market to itself with the F3. I'm sure Panasonic is just itching to get in there ASAP with a competitive camera. Maybe an AF200 with better dynamic range and log recording to P2? I'd be surprised if they don't have a product by the next NAB.

I'm sorry... Call me crazy, or old, or a contrarian, but Panasonic Professional Video division, of all of the companies I deal with on a daily basis, seems the most secure in their items sent to market, their standards, and their customer base. If they don't have a camera in a particular price point or market, it might be because the purchase market is far narrower than the rental market, and the cost on R&D of entering that market far outweigh the benefits of it. In other words, the more expensive the camera body, the less likely people are going to purchase it. Once you go beyond $1-$2k, the numbers thin out. Again, $5-$6k. Again, $10-$14k. And right on up. I doubt that market is as tantalizing to get into as you might imagine.

If you want to talk about volume and commitment to that formula, the Olympics are not being shot on the 5D, or the FS100 or whatever, but on P2 in DVCProHD (correct me if I'm wrong here). I think that says a lot about their ability to keep in business and provide customers with quality solutions.

I am thankful for what I've been lucky enough to get my hands on, instead of dreaming for some other camera that doesn't yet exist. The camera, at the end of the day, is merely a tool. My suggestion, focus on what you've got or what actually exists.

Jan, I hope you are reading this. Whatever you and your people are doing, keep doing it. I am very happy with what I have from your company, both in terms of hardware and customer support (a certain NLE maker could learn a thing or two from you guys), so please, just keep on keeping on. Call me a fan boy or whatever, but the AF100 is the first camera I've had that I am not looking to replace.

 

[Sparky874]

I'm sorry... Call me crazy, or old, or a contrarian, but Panasonic Professional Video division, of all of the companies I deal with on a daily basis, seems the most secure in their items sent to market, their standards, and their customer base. If they don't have a camera in a particular price point or market, it might be because the purchase market is far narrower than the rental market, and the cost on R&D of entering that market far outweigh the benefits of it. In other words, the more expensive the camera body, the less likely people are going to purchase it. Once you go beyond $1-$2k, the numbers thin out. Again, $5-$6k. Again, $10-$14k. And right on up. I doubt that market is as tantalizing to get into as you might imagine.

If you want to talk about volume and commitment to that formula, the Olympics are not being shot on the 5D, or the FS100 or whatever, but on P2 in DVCProHD (correct me if I'm wrong here). I think that says a lot about their ability to keep in business and provide customers with quality solutions.

I am thankful for what I've been lucky enough to get my hands on, instead of dreaming for some other camera that doesn't yet exist. The camera, at the end of the day, is merely a tool. My suggestion, focus on what you've got or what actually exists.

Jan, I hope you are reading this. Whatever you and your people are doing, keep doing it. I am very happy with what I have from your company, both in terms of hardware and customer support (a certain NLE maker could learn a thing or two from you guys), so please, just keep on keeping on. Call me a fan boy or whatever, but the AF100 is the first camera I've had that I am not looking to replace.

Olympics are being shot with the Sony PDW-700 and PDW-800...

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

You never cease to remind me of how the other half lives.

Every now and then I cross the railway tracks and hire some big boys with big toys, but I am still not skilled enough to compete with the mid range Hollywood budget movies (A $30 Mil fail is a true epic disaster for your career).
Watch this space though, I am focused like a blowtorch on steroids!

A 1stAC and grip are not luxuries. And if you have blondes and redheads, and you're not using them.... well. Try em out. You'll like em.

Glad to hear you can afford such highly skilled dudes on every project. I'll use a Duck and a Donkey if they fit my budget (and get the job done) but I certainly get very happy feelings when a DIT is around!

We use the Blondes and Reds whenever we can. Sometimes they pull a bit too much power at different locations so we just get creative with whatever we can.

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

Jan, I hope you are reading this. Whatever you and your people are doing, keep doing it. I am very happy with what I have from your company, both in terms of hardware and customer support (a certain NLE maker could learn a thing or two from you guys), so please, just keep on keeping on. Call me a fan boy or whatever, but the AF100 is the first camera I've had that I am not looking to replace.

+1
The Af100 has literally changed my life and made my dreams a reality with much less nightmares!

People really underestimate the logistics hell of investor pressure when it comes to film making. From concept to exhibition, you are under pressure to make something that will get you out of debt.
Sure it's a dream come true to have a small army of people running around to make your vision a reality but if an investor fails, you need more pick ups or shot time than you originally planned or you could not afford insurance...

With the Af100, I have zero investor pressure.

(I almost cried with relief as I typed that line.)

I can shoot whatever I want, for any exhibition medium, whenever I want.

Now THAT is creative freedom.

 

[Eithcowich]

Wilbur, did I understand you correctly that the AF requires less budget for lighting than the Red or the Alexa? How come?

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

Wilbur, did I understand you correctly that the AF requires less budget for lighting than the Red or the Alexa? How come?

Nope, less budget is certainly required for Grips though. (Smaller equipment = smaller transport vehicles and less crew).

For Lighting:

I try to shoot as much as I can in daylight or in well lit (big windows facing the sun) rooms which purely require additional lighting for effects.

My love for the m4/3 format is mostly around the low weight, compact size and Cinematic quality.

Lighting is everything once you have something to point it at, but I refuse to use a lack of budget and crew as an excuse to NOT shoot something!


I start shooting a school musical on Friday and will upload a screen grab every now and then to give you an idea of what we do.

My motivation behind this thread is my excitement over the next Gen Af m4/3 which (I hope) would be of similar size and weight to the Af100 yet shoot close to the quality of the Alexa.

 

[David W. Jones]

Ha Ha.. nope.. I'm willing to pay the same prices as the Arri etc.
I just love the size and weight of M4/3

until I bought the Af100, I would just sit and let the DP do all the work, now I'm like a chubby kid in a donut store!

Nope, less budget is certainly required for Grips though. (Smaller equipment = smaller transport vehicles and less crew).

For Lighting:

I try to shoot as much as I can in daylight or in well lit (big windows facing the sun) rooms which purely require additional lighting for effects.

My love for the m4/3 format is mostly around the low weight, compact size and Cinematic quality.

Lighting is everything once you have something to point it at, but I refuse to use a lack of budget and crew as an excuse to NOT shoot something!


I start shooting a school musical on Friday and will upload a screen grab every now and then to give you an idea of what we do.

My motivation behind this thread is my excitement over the next Gen Af m4/3 which (I hope) would be of similar size and weight to the Af100 yet shoot close to the quality of the Alexa.

If you are willing to fork over the cost of an Alexa as you stated in your earlier post, but are put off by it's size and weight... Having recently played with both the Alexa and the AF100, I can honestly say that when both cameras are equally equipped for a cinema style shoot, the size and weight difference is negligible between the two cameras. The same accessories are needed, the same lights are needed, the same support is needed, the same lenses are needed, and the same crew is needed to achieve similar results. If you honestly have the budget for an Alexa, it really is a better camera for shooting a feature movie. But as in your last post, if you are shooting school musicals, it is likely a waste of money.

All the Best!

Dave

 

[Sumfun]

I'm sorry... Call me crazy, or old, or a contrarian, but Panasonic Professional Video division, of all of the companies I deal with on a daily basis, seems the most secure in their items sent to market, their standards, and their customer base. If they don't have a camera in a particular price point or market, it might be because the purchase market is far narrower than the rental market, and the cost on R&D of entering that market far outweigh the benefits of it. In other words, the more expensive the camera body, the less likely people are going to purchase it. Once you go beyond $1-$2k, the numbers thin out. Again, $5-$6k. Again, $10-$14k. And right on up. I doubt that market is as tantalizing to get into as you might imagine.

If you want to talk about volume and commitment to that formula, the Olympics are not being shot on the 5D, or the FS100 or whatever, but on P2 in DVCProHD (correct me if I'm wrong here). I think that says a lot about their ability to keep in business and provide customers with quality solutions.

I am thankful for what I've been lucky enough to get my hands on, instead of dreaming for some other camera that doesn't yet exist. The camera, at the end of the day, is merely a tool. My suggestion, focus on what you've got or what actually exists.

Jan, I hope you are reading this. Whatever you and your people are doing, keep doing it. I am very happy with what I have from your company, both in terms of hardware and customer support (a certain NLE maker could learn a thing or two from you guys), so please, just keep on keeping on. Call me a fan boy or whatever, but the AF100 is the first camera I've had that I am not looking to replace.

I agree that the more expensive the camera the fewer people will purchase it. But considering that Panasonic has many camera models that sell above $10k, including the 3700 at $60k, I would say that the $10k-$14k market is within their range of interest. You may think that Panny is not participating in this market by choice, but I beg to differ. I think they just don't have a competitive product at the moment. And that's okay, because Panny and Sony have a history of trying to leapfrog each other with every camera generation. Let's wait another 9 or 10 months and see what they do.

I also agree that you can only use products that exist, but there's certainly no harm in making requests for features in the next generations. Part of every manufacturer's job is to innovate and create better products. Yes they have their own in-house experts, but a good manufacturer also listens to their customers. I think Jan has said many times that many of the features in new cameras came from suggestions from customers like us. So manufacturers like Panny actually seek users' comments and requests, and use them to help them to improve their products.

It's good to be happy with what you have. But I bet you'll want to replace your camera in a few years. And in fact it's Jan's job to try to get you to replace your camera in a few years. Cheers. :beer:

 

[grimrebes]

Olympics are being shot with the Sony PDW-700 and PDW-800...

http://www.panasonic-broadcast.com/en/NAB2011.php

Upper left hand corner.

 

[biginvegas]

A 1stAC and grip are not luxuries. And if you have blondes and redheads, and you're not using them.... well. Try em out. You'll like em.

In the world of microbudget everyone on the crew is a luxury. The AF100 is the 1st camera in 40 years, the last being the NPR Eclair to revolutionize cinema film making. It is entirely possible to shoot a story with the AF100 with a crew of one.

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

If you are willing to fork over the cost of an Alexa as you stated in your earlier post, but are put off by it's size and weight... Having recently played with both the Alexa and the AF100, I can honestly say that when both cameras are equally equipped for a cinema style shoot, the size and weight difference is negligible between the two cameras. The same accessories are needed, the same lights are needed, the same support is needed, the same lenses are needed, and the same crew is needed to achieve similar results. If you honestly have the budget for an Alexa, it really is a better camera for shooting a feature movie. But as in your last post, if you are shooting school musicals, it is likely a waste of money.

All the Best!

Dave

Hiya Dave.

I think you miss my point (unless I am missing yours).

I want to get away from the massive lenses and everything else that turn the Af into a hulking monster.

Hence my love for the m4/3 format and a desire to see at least 422 built in.

As for the school musical, think of it as a 90 minute series of music videos shot for Cinema. The School I am working with is an Art school for gifted kids (kinda like Xavier's school except these kids do hip hop, ballet and play the piano).
I definitely need all the quality I can get, hence an F3 as my 'A' cam.

Scraping (literally) together the money to get the Alexa will open up a can of worms in the way of grips, lenses etc. that would put me (the indy film maker) back in the exact pile of shite that drove me towards the Af100.

It's a numbers game, a very big numbers game and I don't give a rats ass about how the gear looks or what the big budget few get to use on set. I want a solution that will help me make more and better films to distribute as I please without the horrendous pressure of paying back massive investments and waiting for distributors to cover their gargantuan marketing bills.

It may be unreasonable wanting an Alexa in the same packaging as an Af100 but it is certainly a dream I love dreaming!

Cards will get faster, Reference monitors will get thinner and lighter and Cameras WILL get smaller.

Price will always be a factor when it comes to buying equipment, but that exponential leap in support gear is the true killer!
As far as I am concerned, Arri and RED need to get on a treadmill and lose some weight!

 

[Wilbur Eddings]

In the world of microbudget everyone on the crew is a luxury. The AF100 is the 1st camera in 40 years, the last being the NPR Eclair to revolutionize cinema film making. It is entirely possible to shoot a story with the AF100 with a crew of one.

In the words of Chopper: "Effing spot on mate!"

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

In the world of microbudget everyone on the crew is a luxury. The AF100 is the 1st camera in 40 years, the last being the NPR Eclair to revolutionize cinema film making. It is entirely possible to shoot a story with the AF100 with a crew of one.

Bull.

Maybe on YOUR shoots that is the case, but certainly not mine.