AG-DVX200 4K Large-Sensor Handheld Camcorder

TheDingo said:
The problem I have with electronic parfocal lenses has to do with the corrections being momentarily visible in the recorded image. Zooming to a new FOV and watching the lens re-focus is not what I want to see in my footage.
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There is a third way to maintaining focus during zoom. Have a varifocus lens with predetermined shifts during zoom. Voilà no focus hunting. Much different from constantly refocusing.
 
TheDingo said:
The problem I have with electronic parfocal lenses has to do with the corrections being momentarily visible in the recorded image. Zooming to a new FOV and watching the lens re-focus is not what I want to see in my footage.
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Agreed. That's one of my biggest complaints about using still lenses with my GH4.
 
so how bad/noticeable is that issue in the real world? Ive not used a cam with that kind of lens except an ac160 (maybe it was a 30) once, never got to see footage other than in the viewfinder. plus there wasnt a lot of zooming on that shoot.
 
philiplipetz said:
...Panasonic has said that the only reason the DVX200 is possible is in camera lens correction with corrections optimized for each lens and camera combination, correcting for inevitable manufacturing variations when making more inexpensive zoom lenses for such large sensor zooms. That have stated that such quality at low cost is impossible without in camera correction for each lenses variation. Traditional large sensor zoom lenses for cine use are so expensive because of the low tolerance for manufacturing variation. Panasonic has said that the design breakthrough was accepting variation in body and lens, and then correcting in camera for each fixed immovable camera lens alignment. But they state that this is impossible with interchangeable lenses. Each combination is unique, and remounting there same lens introduces variations too large to allow this level of correction. They hint, but do not say, that this large sensor zoom lens is not also requires in camera distortion correction to make it affordable, it is not just a question of optimization, but feasibility. This why the camera is a breakthrough that will redefine what is possible, just as the DVX100 did. It makes it possible to affordably have a large sensor zoom lens.
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By golly, somebody actually gets it! Nicely said; this is an excellent summary of a complex engineering decision.
 
Just as an example the 5x E-mount 28-135 zoom used on the FS7 is $2500 all by itself. Just imagine what a 13 times version might cost if it was even viable apart from the fact it may get very big. A MFT lens may be smaller and a little lower cost but not by much. With the experience of my FDR-AX1 focus will be the issue. So how focus is achieved and maintained will be critical. How well the focus assist works or how good the auto focus and whether the lens is really parfocal, however that is achieved, will be things to look at when the camera is available. The FDR-AX1 is not parfocal so zooming in and using the focus assist to get a sharp focus is useless if the zoom is then brought wide. Goes straight out of focus. Unfortunately I have found push auto focus is about the only way to get a sharp focus consistently at the framing I want to use. If the lighting conditions change dramatically it may still go out of focus !!! When it is in focus the image is lovely.
 
Thomas Smet said:
I disagree with you. I think many are spoiled today by what DSLRs like the GH4 have offered in terms of quality but the work flow and ergonomics always leaves something to be desired. There are many shooters who still prefer a video camera type of a tool and workflow. Only downside to those type of cameras are the tiny sensors. What the DVX200 does is finally bridge that gap between workhorse video camera and DSLR. For years I had one of each because there is such a thing as the right tool for the job. With the DVX200 shooters can finally for the first time in history really have one single camera that can do it all. It acts and functions exactly like a traditional video camera yet enjoys all the image quality, DOF and low light benefits of a m43 DSLR.

Look we know the GH cameras are widely used by those who create other types of video besides indie films. The wedding crowd and corporate video is a decent market for the GH3 and GH4. Many of those people at one point came from a background using video cameras. While they all successfully made the move to a camera like a GH4 there have been a lot of compromises along the way. With the DVX200 those people finally have the Gh4 they would likely prefer to have. About the only thing really lacking on the DVX200 is the ability to add f1.8 glass. That is a bummer of course but the DVX200 will still crush most other 1/3", 1/2" and 2/3" video cameras. Considering the 1/2" video camera market is still generally more expensive than the DVX200 I would say thats pretty darn impressive. Forget about getting a 2/3" 4k video camera anytime soon wither. The last 2/3" video camera I used was a Sony DVCAM that cost over $12,000.00. 2/3" is extremely expensive and 1/2" is pretty far up there as well. Typically the sub $5,000.00 video cameras are 1/3" Here we get a 4/3" sensor video camera which is just astronomically huge for a $5,000.00 video camera.

It is not easy to make a power zoom lens for a m43 sensor. The larger the sensor the more difficult it is to build a zoom lens. Sure traditional sub $5,000.00 video cameras have impressive zoom lenses but those are designed for a 1/3" sensor or at the most a 1/2" sensor. The lens on the DVX200 is exceptionally impressive because Panasonic did make the worlds first actually usable power zoom lens with a decent full range and decent aperture. This is a lens that as far as we know functions just like a traditional video camera lens and yet works with a m43 sensor. That is rather unheard of.

Besides the lens and sensor the DVX200 basically has everything else many really wish they had on the GH4. Great in camera audio, better ergonomics for run and gun shooting, better physical controls that are easier to get at quickly and so on. The DVX200 is really a GH4 with a stellar lens attached, high quality XLR audio unit built in and a bigger body with many menu controls moved to the body for quicker access.

I would call that pretty darn impressive and a bit of an industry first. Would I have liked to see the zoom lens start at f1.8? Of course but lets be realistic here. Name a single f1.8 zoom lens built for m43. There is a reason why we don't see a whole lot of f1.8 zoom lenses. Even Olympus who had 43 f2.0 zooms decided to go f2.8 for their m43 zoom lenses due to cost and size. A lot of the f2.8 zoom lenses out there can only do so within a limited zoom range. For example 35-100 and 12-35. It is exceptionally difficult to combine those together and almost double that 100mm reach on the long end. Sure the DVX200 could have had interchangeable lenses but then it would actually lose a lot of those benefits that some shooters like with traditional video cameras. The AF100 was a nice camera but honestly it only really bridged the gap between video camera and DSLR but was never a perfect merge of the two. The DVX200 is a perfect merge of the two. The AF100 still had limited zoom options and only two not so good power zoom lenses that were horrendous in low light and not very practical. For one who shot productions that really required the use of zooming while shooting the AF100 was kind of an expensive bust and they would likely still prefer to use a really good and equally expensive video camera.
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Well, lets agree to agree then...lol

I agree with everything you wrote, I just wouldn't classify any of the above as a technological breakthrough. It's existing technology grouped together in a unique very appealing way. I own many different cameras, each capable of doing something uniquely different than the other, so I get what you are saying as far as using the right tool for the job. I am keenly interested in the DVX200, I just wouldn't call it a technological breakthrough.

I am not interested in getting into a semantic based discussion on the use of the word 'breakthrough', but the DVX200, to me, does not represent the word 'breakthrough' very well. As always, your mileage may vary.
 
FWIW, Panasonic G7 is supposed to be announced shortly. MFT mount, 4K (no auto focus apparently - in 4K?).

So, if someone has a bunch of MFT lenses lying around ...
 
Gweilo66 said:
"The camera doesn't exist yet."

But..we know the lens is awesome ;)
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Spec wise yes but in terms of real world optical performance we know nothing at this point.

What we do know however is that this is Panasonic and they don't typically make junk or completely fail at making cameras that create a good image. We know the lens is fast-ish and the sensor should likely be as good if not better than the sensor on the GH4. If I had to take a stab at guessing what the footage will look like I would say it should be very similar to the GH4 using either of the constant f2.8 lenses. Search for footage with that combo and that should give you a good ballpark idea of what footage will look like from the DVX200. Again I think it will be a bit better since the sensor packs less pixels and it is a newer generation sensor. Technology improves sensor performance and Panasonic pushes the envelope of what can be done with a m43 sensor. I think the less pixels alone could be enough to get a half stop over the GH4. If Panasonic can push the sensor tech to make that a full stop then the DVX200 on the wide end would look like a GH4 with a f2.0 lens. Thats not bad at all.

Panasonic tends to have a rather consistant look across their cameras, especially in the m43 sensor range. The look has not deviated much between the GH2, GH3 and GH4 and therefore I expect the DVX200 to have a similar look and feel. Of course this is just a guess but a guess based off of all their previous cameras.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Spec wise yes but in terms of real world optical performance we know nothing at this point.

What we do know however is that this is Panasonic and they don't typically make junk or completely fail at making cameras that create a good image...
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One other thing to consider is that Leica is allowing Panasonic to put the Leica badge on it. Leica doesn't want their name associated with crap. I seem to remember reading quite a while ago that they were making some of the X lenses or something like that for Panasonic (as they make a lot of lenses for Panasonic), but because they weren't up tp Leica's standards, they didn't want to allow their brand to be put on them.
 
I don't believe the Panasonic Gh4 is the camera chosen by the engineers of the new DVX200 to take its "visual target" and esthetics, because it's greatly announced to be as companion to new Varicam, so we must watch footage from Varicam, to have an idea more clear about this camera. I don't like very much the footage from Panasonic GH4, hope the camera can reach some result comparing to Varicam, as Hvx200 did with previous Varicam. Take a look to this video for example and remind the announcement as companion to Varicam:
 
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I think a lot would like the DVX-200 to be more towards the Varicam than the GH4. If the DVX-200 had an "AJ" distinction it would be a slam dunk. Since it has the "AG" it could be the GH4's older brother while they ready the baby varicam AJ version though.
 
Dear Bassaman, I just reported the info based on annunciation of the camera, I don't think the AJ badge would guarantee to be a better camera. We all began to be suspicious when Varicam LOG were putted in pre-production model of GH4, but in this case the sensor is new, not the same of GH4. I admit that I think Panasonic will produce two models of DVX200, the second one with interchangeable optics, but no rumors about it. I just hope that DVX200 would be a better camera than GH4, but I'm not only one.
 
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