Adventures in the PSE

James0b57 said:
Haha, actually, I first got into using the PSE, because I wanted to match Canon to Nikon. I think that is a possibility, for sure. I do not have a GH2, nor do I have access to one. But if someone were to work on it, I would be able to help in analyzing footage(via dropbox), or helping in finding PSE work arounds.

Even if it only got us 70% of the way there, it would make post production matching far less difficult.
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I've got both in front of me, actually!

Not very good with color matching (or analyzing for that matter), so any help would be excellent!
 
Awesome. Are you able to put your Canon lenses on the GH2?

(or do you have Nikon adapters for both the Canon and GH2?)
 
If you were to be able to use the same lens on both of your cameras, I could give you a few tests to shoot, and then I could take the raw files and work on them.
 
Excellent!
I just got the GH2 in my hands a few days ago, but my Nikon F adapter is still in the mail at the moment, likely holiday shipping delays. So, sadly I have no lenses that will work on both cameras yet.

There might be some other folks in the forum who already shoot with both and have interchangeable adapters. I'll see if I can get someone involved...
 
OK, it would also be ideal to get samples from two or more users, to make up for variations between each specific model.
 
Comparison Video by Emmanuel Junglander

Comparison Video by Emmanuel Junglander

http://vimeo.com/23157870

If you have't done your own side by side tests of the most used picture styles, this is a good one for evaluating some of the pros and cons of each style. User, has overexposed a small amount in majority of shots in these videos, but depending on his workflow, that may have been intentional.

Enjoy~
 
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Got my adapters- I now have access to my Nikon and EOS mount lenses on the GH2. If you could go into detail as far as what you need me to shoot, I can use the same lenses on both cameras now and see if you can analyze the color differences.
 
James0b57 said:
great, I am working on a check list now.

MG, what are your thoughts on GH2 settings, custom vs default, and what are people most using: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?267105-Cinema-Mode-is-the-GH2-s-best-kept-secret
Click to expand...

Still experimenting with it myself, but so far I think the Nostalgic setting gets the most realistic color without clipping shadows.
I also noticed that custom "film modes" (their version of Picture Profiles) is possible and some folks have tried to create some that they claim are better for various reasons. I wonder if meeting somewhere in the middle would be the easiest route- a custom film mode for Panasonic and picture profile for Canon, that gives them a nearly identical look.
But I wouldn't even know where to start with that- perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself here.
 
The same ideas can be applied to different lighting scenarios (Incandescent, Fluorescent, Daylight, Sunlight, Twilight, Shade, etc)


Basic Test:
(Most important is to do this as a daylight test, but if you have the time to do a 3200K test, as well that would more thorough)

prep:
- Make sure you have a setup that allows for quick succession of shooting between cameras. And that lighting will be consistent long enough to film the test.
- If you use a person they cannot be allowed to move from their near exact position, once the test begins. So they should be in a comfortable sitting position to prohibit stepping around or turning their body.
- The range of colors both natural and saturated colors is nice. Don't forget about dark saturated colors.
- A full range of 12 stops of light within the scene is preferred. a little blow out, and a little black shadows. And a little contrasty to bring out saturation anomalies.




-Use same white balance on each camera (preferably once with the appropriate K, and then equivalent preset like 'daylight' or whatever is closest to test lighting situation)


-Must be the same exact lens used (not just the same make and model, but same exact lens)

-Cameras must be within inches of same point of view. It's okay to back the GH2 up, but be careful to not change the vantage point. Also keep all the important information towards the middle of the scene, so that if the Canon image is wider, it will not matter.

-use all the video picture styles with both cameras.

-Take a RAW picture of each scene with both cameras.

-Make sure to go down a check list of camera settings to confirm settings in both cameras are approximate:
-iso
-wb
-saturation (default)
-contrast
-frame rate/shutter speed




Having the RAW from each camera will help me analyze what is going on under the hood. And having video clips of all the default styles will help in determine which one to base the eosGH2 picture style on. I imagine that shooting a take for each picture style and two white balance settings (a Kelivn/custom setting and a default preset, no auto) on each camera body would take about 10minutes, so lighting has to be consistent enough to not change in that time.
 
Hey James,

I've been watching this thread for awhile now and started doing some tests with different picture styles to see how my post workflow effects things.

I've included your R303_s0723L Finished as it seems to be one of, if not the nicest quick and dirty PS's I've tried.

Canon Neutral
Marvels 3.4
R303_s0723L
Technicolor Cinestyle

They are in no particular order. I have a favorite for grading right now form my limited testing, but it's interesting to see how your Finished picture style compares. The only thing I did to it was add sharpening and unsharp mask. Those were exactly the same for all the profiles.

Same file uploaded to both Vimeo and Youtube. Youtube seems to retain much more of the original differences. Surprised to see how much Vimeo crushes the shadows to black.
http://vimeo.com/34105537
http://youtu.be/5FjEdNTTPu8?hd=1

Cheers,
Pete
 
James0b57 said:
Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...

Ok, that's cool. I need some time to set this up, though. I just got hit with 2 really tedious editing projects that need to be finished in the next few days. I won't be able to experiment until after next week.

Unless anyone else with both of these cameras wants to take a stab at it?
 
Hi M,

Perhaps if you just take two raw images of the same scene with the same lens. That would help me get a head start. And if you could get a video screen shot from each cameras 'standard' picture style of that same scene, that would help in seeing how these cameras essentially work.

In that sense, just about any high contrast colorful scene would do.

BASIC TEST:
Choose a scene.
Snap a RAW pic, and roll 2 secs of video.
change camera, exchange lens
Snap a Raw pic, roll 2 secs of video.


UPLOAD OPTIONS:
Get it into computer and upload to drop box something similar. (If you don't have an easy way to upload or send files like RAW, I could give you my dropbox password, and let you use my dropbox if you don't have one, or don't want to set one up.)

But if you are busy, that is fine. Projects can get pretty crazy. We're all doing this on a volunteer basis so far, so there is no pressure.
 
c3hammer said:
Hey James,

I've been watching this thread for awhile now and started doing some tests with different picture styles to see how my post workflow effects things.

I've included your R303_s0723L Finished as it seems to be one of, if not the nicest quick and dirty PS's I've tried.
Click to expand...

Thanks. =)

c3hammer said:
Same file uploaded to both Vimeo and Youtube. Youtube seems to retain much more of the original differences. Surprised to see how much Vimeo crushes the shadows to black.
http://vimeo.com/34105537
http://youtu.be/5FjEdNTTPu8?hd=1

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...

It was interesting to see the differences between youtube and vimeo. I grabbed some screen shots for comparison:

As you can see that vimeo has more saturation and some slight deviations in tonality. There is a slightly more green cast, on the vimeo image, which may only reflect this one circumstance. Not sure that is the case with every video, without further samples.


Youtube by onesielaff, on Flickr

Somebody left a good comment on your page: "This has confirmed that I am spending WAY too much time researching this debate. I think thay ALL look great and all seem to retain highs and lows." I like it because, it is always good to have perspective. I think for him, he realized what was important to him. Picture styles should be a help, and if they are getting in the way, than they are not all that different.

I personally like using different picture styles, because it makes a difference to me, but I look for very even minor changes. At the end of the day, not only are picture styles almost the same, but most cameras are similar too. Good not to let anything get in the way of creativity.
 
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c3hammer said:
Hey James,

I've been watching this thread for awhile now and started doing some tests with different picture styles to see how my post workflow effects things.

I've included your R303_s0723L Finished as it seems to be one of, if not the nicest quick and dirty PS's I've tried.

Canon Neutral
Marvels 3.4
R303_s0723L
Technicolor Cinestyle

They are in no particular order. I have a favorite for grading right now form my limited testing, but it's interesting to see how your Finished picture style compares. The only thing I did to it was add sharpening and unsharp mask. Those were exactly the same for all the profiles.

Same file uploaded to both Vimeo and Youtube. Youtube seems to retain much more of the original differences. Surprised to see how much Vimeo crushes the shadows to black.
http://vimeo.com/34105537
http://youtu.be/5FjEdNTTPu8?hd=1

Cheers,
Pete
Click to expand...


Have you tried the crooked path 3.0 ? I think it's great also !
 
James0b57 said:
Hi M,

Perhaps if you just take two raw images of the same scene with the same lens. That would help me get a head start. And if you could get a video screen shot from each cameras 'standard' picture style of that same scene, that would help in seeing how these cameras essentially work.

In that sense, just about any high contrast colorful scene would do.

BASIC TEST:
Choose a scene.
Snap a RAW pic, and roll 2 secs of video.
change camera, exchange lens
Snap a Raw pic, roll 2 secs of video.


UPLOAD OPTIONS:
Get it into computer and upload to drop box something similar. (If you don't have an easy way to upload or send files like RAW, I could give you my dropbox password, and let you use my dropbox if you don't have one, or don't want to set one up.)

But if you are busy, that is fine. Projects can get pretty crazy. We're all doing this on a volunteer basis so far, so there is no pressure.
Click to expand...

I really didn't have time to set this up and light it (or even tweak camera settings much), but here's something I shot quickly with both cams:
http://www.rombusdigital.com/Temp/cameratest.zip

Canon is set to Neutral, all settings zero, GH2 is set to Nostalgic (supposed to be the most like Neutral on Canon), also all settings set to zero.

In my experience, I found that pushing the saturation up on Nostalgic makes it look more like Canon footage (see my quick test trying to match everything in camera here) but I figured I should use default settings for this, right? They look very different right now like this.
 
Thanks M, they really take on different personalities from raw to video. Overall, they are a lot closer than I thought they'd be.
 
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I'll make updates as I work on them.

The raw converted files:


Seems like the M4/3 sensor would make a good anamorphic video, if they had a no crop option.
 
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