When voting on a film...

armisiano said:
Notice something here? This thread developed into, "Well maybe the HVX can hold up to the Red" sorta thing. That's not my point. All of these things are out of my financial league. You mention the HVX and the D90, others the HV20, all of which shoot HD.

You're busy comparing HD to the Red, which is not my point at all.
Click to expand...

And once again, there's still a bias, since a lot of people will probably like to see Zak and the D90 walk away with the top prize. There are a lot of films that have a huge following which, of course out of fear, makes me feel that my film will easily be overshadowed and tossed aside. Kind of nerve-wracking going up against such well known filmmakers. :(

There really is something to the psychological treatment of a film depending on whether it's presented in HD quality or SD. Sure, if the SD film is shot well and the HD isn't, that makes a HUGE difference, but the pressure is still there.

*starts a regressive revolution toward analog video and 8mm film*
 
puckthemad said:
my line of thought has always been production value: what you put in front of the camera is going to pay for itself. If you have great set design, good actors, good script, everything coming together to make a good film (as well as great cinematography), then the camera doesn't matter at all. You could shoot on Hi-8 and it would still be effective.
Click to expand...

That's the theory, but there are still those who are captured by seeing the words "high definition" or "RED camera" attached and assume it will be of higher/better production value, thus conditioning them to set that film's merits ever so slightly higher than they may actually be. Does that make sense? (hope I'm not trailing off)
 
armisiano said:
Notice something here? This thread developed into, "Well maybe the HVX can hold up to the Red" sorta thing. That's not my point. All of these things are out of my financial league. You mention the HVX and the D90, others the HV20, all of which shoot HD.

You're busy comparing HD to the Red, which is not my point at all.
Click to expand...
Not to get off topic but the HV20 is dirt cheap when compared to even the DVX. :)

If the argument is just SD versus HD.... the 50MB compressed videos look good but they don't look THAT good. :) That should help you narrow the gap a little.

Not saying that you can compare with the look of a RED, just that you can still compete with most of the pack.

MAH
 
Lawsuit_Boy said:
That's the theory, but there are still those who are captured by seeing the words "high definition" or "RED camera" attached and assume it will be of higher/better production value, thus conditioning them to set that film's merits ever so slightly higher than they may actually be. Does that make sense? (hope I'm not trailing off)
Click to expand...


You make complete sense. Robbie Comeau even admitted as much a couple of posts ago, so you know there are a few other people who are easily impressed by flashy bright lights and big names. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Hopefully they're balanced out or negated by people looking for substance rather than flash...
 
puckthemad said:
my line of thought has always been production value: what you put in front of the camera is going to pay for itself. If you have great set design, good actors, good script, everything coming together to make a good film (as well as great cinematography), then the camera doesn't matter at all. You could shoot on Hi-8 and it would still be effective.
Click to expand...

...so if you shot the same film...at the same time on both Hi-8 & a RED... same edit, same sound, same everything...people would (in theory) like both equally?

....I don't think so (but it was a nice thought).:beer:

Remember, a bicycle will get you from point A to point B the same as a BMW....but most people would choose the beamer!
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Not to get off topic but the HV20 is dirt cheap when compared to even the DVX. :)

If the argument is just SD versus HD.... the 50MB compressed videos look good but they don't look THAT good. :) That should help you narrow the gap a little.

Not saying that you can compare with the look of a RED, just that you can still compete with most of the pack.

MAH
Click to expand...

Exactly. Hv20 is much cheaper than my dvx and yields much higher resolution, but we've just got to work with what we have. And darn my friend for getting his RED immediately AFTER I finished shooting this film. Argh.

I think all of us in the lower category HD brackets and even those like me still in SD will fare just fine as long as we don't foul up the compression. As long as the competition stays "fair and balanced" (to rip off the abject Fox network), we'll all be ok.
 
puckthemad said:
You make complete sense. Robbie Comeau even admitted as much a couple of posts ago, so you know there are a few other people who are easily impressed by flashy bright lights and big names. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Hopefully they're balanced out or negated by people looking for substance rather than flash...
Click to expand...

Right. And it's not exclusive to dvxuser, this sort of thing happens in every festival. People are drawn to that which is recognizable and that which has at least a little "hype." It's all a competition, and that's the key word. There's still the push to be the best one; the king of the mountain. So while it's great that we all get to come together collectively and exhibit our blood, sweat, and tears, we all still, somewhere in our minds, want to win.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
Yes, but the DVX is a professional camera with many other advantages.

In the end, it's not about the look for me. Story is key.
That's how I'll be voting.

MAH
Click to expand...

yeah...personally, I'd take the dvx over MANY cameras. I was just trying to even the playing field. ;)

I'm with you. Story is my #1 concern. Everything else is supplementary.
 
I think the bias is something that is good for everyone. In the search for distribution, one's film needs to have a strong audience. That's why name actors are so important in getting a film sold. We won't be able to complain to a distribution company that our film is great even though it was shot on a bad camera. Things like blu-ray are directly affect sales and it's because they make the viewing experience better.

I'm just playing devil's advocate. There are many success stories that contradict my statements, but they are still in the minority.
 
Well I don't vote for the camera. I think that is stupid. Does the story entertain you? Some of the winning films I didn't like. After one of them won first place I went back and watched it again. I still didn't see why it was picked. I guess it was the RED.

But some of the people here have more money and more of a group of people to work with to make better films and some of us don't. But they idea is to make films. I enjoy it and don't care what camera people are using. It can be a good film with whatever camera is being used.

When can I upload my film made with a DVX100b?
 
Last edited:
Drew Ott said:
I think the bias is something that is good for everyone. In the search for distribution, one's film needs to have a strong audience. That's why name actors are so important in getting a film sold. We won't be able to complain to a distribution company that our film is great even though it was shot on a bad camera. Things like blu-ray are directly affect sales and it's because they make the viewing experience better.

I'm just playing devil's advocate. There are many success stories that contradict my statements, but they are still in the minority.
Click to expand...

Like any other system of privilege, bias is good for those that it gives advantages to, and not the other ones. Sure, people are working hard to find more unsung indie heroes of the film world, but there are still plenty of occasions where a film might be passed up and sent to a lesser distributor because another film of equal or slightly inferior quality has bigger names attached.

It's all still tied to the free market and selling a product. It's where the line between artists and businessmen really thickens.
 
Zim said:
When can I upload my film made with a DVX100b?
Click to expand...

I was wondering the same thing, haha.

Very true what you said though, Zim. I think we can all agree that we want to see interesting, fun, provoking, or enticing stories told. And if they're told in a visually striking way, then alright!

Now let's get this festival started. :)
 
Lawsuit_Boy said:
And once again, there's still a bias, since a lot of people will probably like to see Zak and the D90 walk away with the top prize. There are a lot of films that have a huge following which, of course out of fear, makes me feel that my film will easily be overshadowed and tossed aside. Kind of nerve-wracking going up against such well known filmmakers. :(
Click to expand...

don't worry about the popular thread thing. my film is going to appeal to maybe 10% of the people that view it. besides, films like broadcast, anti-de presence, winter lilacs and quite a few others were from filmmakers i'd never come across on the dvxuser boards before and have rarely seen since. and despite a series of wildly successful frat house style threads, it took fat monster a long succession of fests to achieve the success they had with their last two efforts.

and here's the thing. the key to not being one of the films that get no/few comments is to participate in the fest, participate in the dialogue around the fest, and establish an active presence in other filmmaker's threads -- all of which you are doing. viewers like to know their praise, comments and insults will not fall on deaf ears.
 
armisiano said:
Notice something here? This thread developed into, "Well maybe the HVX can hold up to the Red" sorta thing. That's not my point. All of these things are out of my financial league. You mention the HVX and the D90, others the HV20, all of which shoot HD.

You're busy comparing HD to the Red, which is not my point at all.
Click to expand...
Well my point was taking the argument in degrees. RED vs. HD, HD vs. SD and by the transitive property then - Red vs. SD. If you read a little further I get to SD, and make the point that for the web, with good shooting and content it has more than a fighting chance.
 
Zak Forsman said:
and here's the thing. the key to not being one of the films that get no/few comments is to participate in the fest, participate in the dialogue around the fest, and establish an active presence in other filmmaker's threads -- all of which you are doing. viewers like to know their praise, comments and insults will not fall on deaf ears.
Click to expand...

It's certainly a human condition. Regardless of my anxieties of acceptance, I'm super excited to see all of the films (especially yours). It feels very good to actually be able to participate for once.
 
Ok, so i vote on if I finish the film, if I can't finish it it it looses alot of stars. then I look at the look of the film, edits, audio, pretty much if I finish it you already have 5 stars. now it goes up from there. if my interest was kept and I cared if the dog lived or died then thats another couple of stars. But if I didn't care if the 1969 Nova with tricked out rims splattered Sparky...then you don't get any stars added on. (that is unless you have a hot chick in the passengers seat wearing barely anything, that gets points...lol)

now I used the Panasonic Lumix for my short, semi inspired by Zak's use of the d-90...kinda suiting...the D-90 kicks ass (what I think Zak does) and the Panasonic Lumix (not so much...kinda like me) so I hope you don't judge by the camera used but the man behind the camera and what he does with it (or she)

Rogan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top