Trading in my Canon C200 for S1H

[DustinSchmidt]

Yeah I'd rent it and check it out. It's an impressive camera for sure.

On the other hand, does't the C70 have the same sensor as a C300 III and a high quality 10 bit mode? I like what Panasonic is doing, I prefer the EVA1 to the C200 and I like the S1 and S1H. But if you have a C300 III as an A cam a C70 seems the logical b camera.

I agree with this statement. If only the C70 could also take stills. I do photography as well and it would be fantastic to not have to carry around another body for stills. We have an eos r and it’s a great stills camera. But the ability to lug around just one body that could serve as a b cam on video shoots and then play double duty as a stills camera is very appealing. Not to mention the size and weight savings. I know it’s been said before but R5 or R6 And their overheating issues put me off. I need a camera that’s reliable in the video aspect.

 

[OliverM]

If you are renting the S1H, you might give this a try: https://www.cinematch.com
It should make matching the cameras an easy (or easier) task. Mixed temperatures might still cause some issues, but their film convert plugin gets cameras in the same ballpark as well.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

If you are renting the S1H, you might give this a try: https://www.cinematch.com
It should make matching the cameras an easy (or easier) task. Mixed temperatures might still cause some issues, but their film convert plugin gets cameras in the same ballpark as well.

I have an S1H coming in on rental on Friday. I plan to compare it to my C200 and C300 III to see how close the files can match up. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

 

[laverdir]

 

[DustinSchmidt]

I have an S1H coming in on rental on Friday. I plan to compare it to my C200 and C300 III to see how close the files can match up. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Ran some very quick tests just to see how well it matches up and to compare it to my C200.

Overall note, the S1H 10bit All I is certainly sharper than the C200 8 bit. No surprise there. But it also seems to resolve more detail at 4k than my C300 III. Again, for the pixel count on the S1H, not too surprising. Some selective sharpening would probably bring the C300 III back in line with the S1H. But crazy to see how detailed and sharp the S1H looks straight out of camera with just the Panasonic Nicest 709 Lut applied.

These are some very, very quick comparisons below. I put up one daylight balanced key light from camera right, a Light and Motion Stella Pro 5000, bounced into a 60 inch silver umbrella and that was it. There's some sunlight coming in through some windows to camera left that I didn't bother to block out and also a bit of tungsten overhead from the room fixture, back at the camera position.

Lenses were a Canon 35 f1.4 for the Acam and a canon 50 f1.2 for the Bcam. I just swapped the 50 between the S1H and the C200 and moved camera position to compensate.

I just wanted to see how things looked with mixed light and if it would be a big struggle to match things up when things aren't 100% perfect.




Here's the S1H as a BCam. S1H Vlog Vgamut transform to Clog2 Cgamut with a lut transform created with LutCalc, then the standard Canon Clog 2 to Rec709WideDR lut.



Here's the C200 as a BCam in the 8bit XF-AVC. This is typically what I'd shoot. This is just the Clog3, 8 bit file. Added 20 to contrast and 25 to saturation and a tiny bit of sharpening.



And here's the C200 as a Bcam in raw. Clog2 Cgamut then the standard Canon Clog2 to Rec709WideDR lut.

Glad I got an S1H in to test. I'm enjoying the form factor. I'll give it a run through over the weekend and early next week and see if it sways me.

 

[Gary T]

Ran some very quick tests just to see how well it matches up and to compare it to my C200.

Overall note, the S1H 10bit All I is certainly sharper than the C200 8 bit. No surprise there. But it also seems to resolve more detail at 4k than my C300 III. Again, for the pixel count on the S1H, not too surprising. Some selective sharpening would probably bring the C300 III back in line with the S1H. But crazy to see how detailed and sharp the S1H looks straight out of camera with just the Panasonic Nicest 709 Lut applied.

These are some very, very quick comparisons below. I put up one daylight balanced key light from camera right, a Light and Motion Stella Pro 5000, bounced into a 60 inch silver umbrella and that was it. There's some sunlight coming in through some windows to camera left that I didn't bother to block out and also a bit of tungsten overhead from the room fixture, back at the camera position.

Lenses were a Canon 35 f1.4 for the Acam and a canon 50 f1.2 for the Bcam. I just swapped the 50 between the S1H and the C200 and moved camera position to compensate.

I just wanted to see how things looked with mixed light and if it would be a big struggle to match things up when things aren't 100% perfect.


View attachment 141165

Here's the S1H as a BCam. S1H Vlog Vgamut transform to Clog2 Cgamut with a lut transform created with LutCalc, then the standard Canon Clog 2 to Rec709WideDR lut.

View attachment 141166

Here's the C200 as a BCam in the 8bit XF-AVC. This is typically what I'd shoot. This is just the Clog3, 8 bit file. Added 20 to contrast and 25 to saturation and a tiny bit of sharpening.

View attachment 141167

And here's the C200 as a Bcam in raw. Clog2 Cgamut then the standard Canon Clog2 to Rec709WideDR lut.

Glad I got an S1H in to test. I'm enjoying the form factor. I'll give it a run through over the weekend and early next week and see if it sways me.

That's looks pretty good to me.

Do you have access to a Ninja V? It would be interesting to see how easily the RAW from the S1H can be matched to the C300 MKIII. The S!H has a lot to offer when you consider all of its shooting options.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

I do have access to a Ninja V actually. I would imagine the RAW can be matched even more easily, although the 10 bit all I is no slouch apparently.

My goal with the S1H, if I do end up purchasing one, is to not hook anything up to it though. I just want an all-in-one stills and cinema camera that I can pick up with just a zoom lens and go. If I need to get fancy and impress clients that's what our C300III is for.

But it's still super nice knowing that the Ninja V can give you RAW with the S1H if you want it. Amazing times we live in.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

Alas, the S1H has been sent back to the rental house. It was fun while it lasted.

I did a tiny bit of lens checking while I had the S1H in with some of the lenses I use regularly with my C200. The Canon 18-80 T4 is a big one, and it will cover the S1H sensor without vignetting from about 60 or so to the long end. Not much of a range, but good to know.

 

[Amulet Man]

Alas, the S1H has been sent back to the rental house. It was fun while it lasted.

I did a tiny bit of lens checking while I had the S1H in with some of the lenses I use regularly with my C200. The Canon 18-80 T4 is a big one, and it will cover the S1H sensor without vignetting from about 60 or so to the long end. Not much of a range, but good to know.

How did you find the color matched? I tried some A/B/C comparisons with an Alexa and an S1 and EVA1 and the dynamic range was crazy close.

But the colors didn't really match.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

How did you find the color matched? I tried some A/B/C comparisons with an Alexa and an S1 and EVA1 and the dynamic range was crazy close.

But the colors didn't really match.

Ran some very quick tests just to see how well it matches up and to compare it to my C200.

Overall note, the S1H 10bit All I is certainly sharper than the C200 8 bit. No surprise there. But it also seems to resolve more detail at 4k than my C300 III. Again, for the pixel count on the S1H, not too surprising. Some selective sharpening would probably bring the C300 III back in line with the S1H. But crazy to see how detailed and sharp the S1H looks straight out of camera with just the Panasonic Nicest 709 Lut applied.

These are some very, very quick comparisons below. I put up one daylight balanced key light from camera right, a Light and Motion Stella Pro 5000, bounced into a 60 inch silver umbrella and that was it. There's some sunlight coming in through some windows to camera left that I didn't bother to block out and also a bit of tungsten overhead from the room fixture, back at the camera position.

Lenses were a Canon 35 f1.4 for the Acam and a canon 50 f1.2 for the Bcam. I just swapped the 50 between the S1H and the C200 and moved camera position to compensate.

I just wanted to see how things looked with mixed light and if it would be a big struggle to match things up when things aren't 100% perfect.


View attachment 141165

Here's the S1H as a BCam. S1H Vlog Vgamut transform to Clog2 Cgamut with a lut transform created with LutCalc, then the standard Canon Clog 2 to Rec709WideDR lut.

View attachment 141166

Here's the C200 as a BCam in the 8bit XF-AVC. This is typically what I'd shoot. This is just the Clog3, 8 bit file. Added 20 to contrast and 25 to saturation and a tiny bit of sharpening.

View attachment 141167

And here's the C200 as a Bcam in raw. Clog2 Cgamut then the standard Canon Clog2 to Rec709WideDR lut.

Glad I got an S1H in to test. I'm enjoying the form factor. I'll give it a run through over the weekend and early next week and see if it sways me.

You can see above how things matched up for me. I wasn't using the same cameras as you though, so you'd need to run your own tests of course.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

A slightly different test here. I downloaded Cinematch finally to check it out.

Here it is comparing the C200 Raw to the S1H 10 bit footage. Same source footage as my previous test, this time both from the same angle, so you can see even more how closely they're able to match up.



I noticed that Cinematch does not currently have a C300 III camera profile. So I couldn't match it up with the S1H in that way. I think it's crucial that they provide that camera profile before we can easily test since the C300 III has a brand new dual gain sensor.

Anyway, pretty easy and close match between the S1H and the C200 I feel like. The Cinematch software was pretty easy to get around in. It did appear to me though that the first step it does is essentially a color space transform, which you can do for free by making and downloading a custom lut in LutCalc, and then it has some built in tools for white balance and tint, etc. It seems like you could get there by doing a few things manually, but of course that's true of most software tools.

Still very cool software and definitely easy to use and pretty quick. I may pick it up anyway just for ease of use when matching cameras in post.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

A slightly different test here. I downloaded Cinematch finally to check it out.

Here it is comparing the C200 Raw to the S1H 10 bit footage. Same source footage as my previous test, this time both from the same angle, so you can see even more how closely they're able to match up.

View attachment 141405

I noticed that Cinematch does not currently have a C300 III camera profile. So I couldn't match it up with the S1H in that way. I think it's crucial that they provide that camera profile before we can easily test since the C300 III has a brand new dual gain sensor.

Anyway, pretty easy and close match between the S1H and the C200 I feel like. The Cinematch software was pretty easy to get around in. It did appear to me though that the first step it does is essentially a color space transform, which you can do for free by making and downloading a custom lut in LutCalc, and then it has some built in tools for white balance and tint, etc. It seems like you could get there by doing a few things manually, but of course that's true of most software tools.

Still very cool software and definitely easy to use and pretty quick. I may pick it up anyway just for ease of use when matching cameras in post.

I stand corrected, there IS a C70 profile for Cinematch so you can use that for the C300 III. Why they would start with the C70 and not the C300 III is beyond me, but I guess they feel it will have wider adoption.

 

[IronFilm]

Why not a Sony FX6? The best of both worlds! You'll give up almost nothing for when it comes to shooting videos vs a C200 or S1H, aside from no 4K S35 (the FX6 is even lighter than a S1H is!).

 

[DustinSchmidt]

Why not a Sony FX6? The best of both worlds! You'll give up almost nothing for when it comes to shooting videos vs a C200 or S1H, aside from no 4K S35 (the FX6 is even lighter than a S1H is!).

Interesting take. I’m looking for a hybrid at the moment as I also shoot stills. I may end up convincing myself to just separate out the still and video features I need though.

Are you an S1H owner? How do you use it in your daily work? I’m looking for insight from current owners on what makes it great. And for tips and use cases.

 

[IronFilm]

Interesting take. I’m looking for a hybrid at the moment as I also shoot stills. I may end up convincing myself to just separate out the still and video features I need though.

A secondhand Sony a7Rmk2 (or even a7mk2) is cheap as chips and is very capable for stills indeed, why not get both that and an FX6?

 

[Doug Jensen]

Are you an S1H owner? How do you use it in your daily work? I’m looking for insight from current owners on what makes it great.

I am an S1H owner and here's my take on exactly what makes the S1H so great:

 

[DustinSchmidt]

I am an S1H owner and here's my take on exactly what makes the S1H so great:

Thanks Doug, this is very helpful and exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. I may end up checking out your course before I make a final decision on my purchase.

We use a C300 Mk III as our main cinema camera, so the C70 is making a big case right now for a secondary B-cam. But for a hybrid I may still go the S1H route anyway.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

Thanks Doug, this is very helpful and exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. I may end up checking out your course before I make a final decision on my purchase.

We use a C300 Mk III as our main cinema camera, so the C70 is making a big case right now for a secondary B-cam. But for a hybrid I may still go the S1H route anyway.

Watched your whole S1H class Doug, sans S1H still. But loved the input on it. I like doing my research before a purchase and it helped tremendously. Still in the market for one, but the C200 continues to work so until I get a spare chunk of change I just keep watching the S1H threads here.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Watched your whole S1H class Doug, sans S1H still. But loved the input on it. I like doing my research before a purchase and it helped tremendously. Still in the market for one, but the C200 continues to work so until I get a spare chunk of change I just keep watching the S1H threads here.

Dustin, thanks for support and I'm glad you liked the master class. Someday I'd like to do a survey to find out how many people use my classes to preview a camera before they actually make a purchase decision. That's one reason I don't hold back on my criticisms and gripes about whatever camera I'm covering. It is best to discuss all the features, warts and all, so people know what they are getting into. I'm working on an FX6 video right now and I still haven't decided which camera I'll keep. I sure don't need them both.

 

[boosh]

I'm currently using a S1H with a C300 MKIII. Both the cameras are great. The S1h is reliable and robust and just works very well with great monitoring features. Its a great camera for b-roll on corporates or events. Like you I get asked to take photos by some clients. It's great for that and the AF works great for stills on my Canon EF glass. One thing I do miss is the ability to film FF 60fps in 4k. I find it crazy that Panasonic haven't implemented this in a firmware update. I also have to say I do feel it was a kick in the teeth from Panasonic releasing the S5 for half the price with most of the features. I still wish for another Canon camera to match colours in post with more ease. I will wait for a FF version of the C70. I know there were rumours of a C90 but we'll have to wait for that. The R5 is a great hybrid camera. You can run unlimited record time in 4k HQ to a Atomos. Might be worth considering?