GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017

GH5-The issue nobody talks about

GH5-The issue nobody talks about

So you have a GH5 and decide you want to shoot 4K60p. How do you watch it back on a UHD TV? Sure, you can connect an HDMI cable to the camera and use the GH5 as a playback device, but what if you don't want to, what then?

As strange as it seems (at least to me), nobody discusses this on any forum I've seen and I've found only one solution to the issue, and it's an unexpectedly strange one. The Samsung UBD-K8500 BluRay player is the only device I've tried that works via its USB input. Of course you'll need a USB 3.0 card reader, but it does work and does play back 4K60p files smoothly.

Stranger still is the fact that other UHD players from Panasonic, Sony & Philips don't work as well. Their playback has frequent stutters and smooth playback just isn't in the cards. I even tried a media player (KDLinks A400), and it too had a tendency to stutter after about 30 seconds of smooth playback, despite advertising 4K60p compatibility.

So has anyone else tried something that worked?
 
Hi

A good question. I suspect many people edit and upload to YouTube, which supports 4K60P (although resolution is reduced in reality due to their compression), and others are editing and exporting as HD 60P which now is much better supported. It should be possible to play the files on Android media boxes but I haven't tried that yet, but many support HDMI 2.0 and also boast 4K60P playback.

Would be interesting to hear how people distribute 4K60P?

Regards

Phil
 
Phil, the KDL media player is an Android based box. But it too doesn't work smoothly. I've been exchanging emails with the developer of the box who wants to improve the user experience.

But as I said, the Samsung UHD BluRay player does work well.
 
I am sincerenly hoping something was lost in translation here but I emailed Panasonic USA regarding the new firmware update, which finally delivers the promised FHD 10-bit 4:2:2 up to 60p and received this reply:

Hello, response from Product Engineer. The firmware update wa announced t only provide 4:2:2 10 bit. No talks or plans for VFR.
Click to expand...

If so, this is devastating, as FHD 10-bit works in a 60p timebase, but you cannot choose 24p timebase up to 60p. As someone who shoots a ton of 36fps and 48fps slow motion this negates almost everything that made the GH5 such a big upgrade. Internal vlog is out the door for any VFR work because internal vlog really needs the 10-bit 4:2:2 color space.

This makes no sense to me as FHD 60p is worked, and also feels misleading, since 8-bit 4K up to 60p obviously implies 60p timebase as well as 24p with VFR selectable up to 60fps (which is exactly how it works).

Why in the world would you ever choose FHD 10-bit VS 4K 10-bit then? If this is true (and I'm really hoping its not!) than this is the most useless FHD 10-bit update imaginable and makes me much less enthusiastic about my GH5.
 
filmguy123 said:
I am sincerenly hoping something was lost in translation here but I emailed Panasonic USA regarding the new firmware update, which finally delivers the promised FHD 10-bit 4:2:2 up to 60p and received this reply:



If so, this is devastating, as FHD 10-bit works in a 60p timebase, but you cannot choose 24p timebase up to 60p. As someone who shoots a ton of 36fps and 48fps slow motion this negates almost everything that made the GH5 such a big upgrade. Internal vlog is out the door for any VFR work because internal vlog really needs the 10-bit 4:2:2 color space.

This makes no sense to me as FHD 60p is worked, and also feels misleading, since 8-bit 4K up to 60p obviously implies 60p timebase as well as 24p with VFR selectable up to 60fps (which is exactly how it works).

Why in the world would you ever choose FHD 10-bit VS 4K 10-bit then? If this is true (and I'm really hoping its not!) than this is the most useless FHD 10-bit update imaginable and makes me much less enthusiastic about my GH5.
Click to expand...

I'm having trouble understanding the issue here. Can't you just interpret the 10bit 1080p60 footage onto a 24p timeline in post? I know it's not the same as overcranking in-camera but surely it's not useless.
 
MurtlandPhoto said:
I'm having trouble understanding the issue here. Can't you just interpret the 10bit 1080p60 footage onto a 24p timeline in post? I know it's not the same as overcranking in-camera but surely it's not useless.
Click to expand...

It is fine for 60p, but it is useless for me as 60p is too slow: the value is in 36fps and 48fps. 60p is "obvious" slow motion. It may not be of value for those that don't understand or need the benefit of this, but Panasonics VFR features are a key distinguisher. For 60p slow motion it's possible, just a hassle (both on set and in post).

Received this response:

The feedback remains the same. We often see other outlets putting information out that is unfounded. This is one of those times. Our Factory is standing firm on the earlier response.
Click to expand...

Super frustrating since this wasn't unfounded media outlet speculation. This was straight from Panasonic "FHD 10-bit up to 60p". No it didn't specifically state VFR but the implication is pretty obvious, and also inconsistent as they used the same exact language for "4K up to 60p". And it seems unthinkable why it wouldn't be implemented.
 
Ken7 said:
So you have a GH5 and decide you want to shoot 4K60p. How do you watch it back on a UHD TV? Sure, you can connect an HDMI cable to the camera and use the GH5 as a playback device, but what if you don't want to, what then?

As strange as it seems (at least to me), nobody discusses this on any forum I've seen and I've found only one solution to the issue, and it's an unexpectedly strange one. The Samsung UBD-K8500 BluRay player is the only device I've tried that works via its USB input. Of course you'll need a USB 3.0 card reader, but it does work and does play back 4K60p files smoothly.

So has anyone else tried something that worked?
Click to expand...

I think the Nvidia Shield should be able to handle H.264 encoded 2160p60 playback, either via local files through its USB port or over a local network with something like Plex Media Server. I haven't actually tried this myself, but the Nvidia Shield is one of the more powerful set-top-box style media players, and other people have reported success playing H.264 encoded 2160p60 files. It also should be able to play VP9 encoded 4K videos from YouTube.

The Roku Ultra supports 4K 60p playback as well, but only for H.265 encoded video, not H.264 (which is only supported for HD resolutions). So this would require transcoding the GH5's H.264 files into H.265 for things to work. It's possible that the video files from the 4K 60fps Photo mode (in 16:9 aspect ratio) would work natively with the Roku Ultra as I believe these are H.265 encoded, but I haven't actually tried this.

And I suppose a 3rd option would be a laptop with an HDMI 2.0 port.
 
davedv said:
I think the Nvidia Shield should be able to handle H.264 encoded 2160p60 playback, either via local files through its USB port or over a local network with something like Plex Media Server. I haven't actually tried this myself, but the Nvidia Shield is one of the more powerful set-top-box style media players, and other people have reported success playing H.264 encoded 2160p60 files. It also should be able to play VP9 encoded 4K videos from YouTube.

The Roku Ultra supports 4K 60p playback as well, but only for H.265 encoded video, not H.264 (which is only supported for HD resolutions). So this would require transcoding the GH5's H.264 files into H.265 for things to work. It's possible that the video files from the 4K 60fps Photo mode (in 16:9 aspect ratio) would work natively with the Roku Ultra as I believe these are H.265 encoded, but I haven't actually tried this.

And I suppose a 3rd option would be a laptop with an HDMI 2.0 port.
Click to expand...

Dave, I do have the newest Roku Ultra, but unfortunately as great a streaming device as it is for things like Netflix, Amazon etc., it doesn't play the GH5 files natively and doesn't even see them.

If you have the Nvidia Shield, I'd appreciate it if you could give it a shot via its USB input with 4K60p GH5 files. Of course you'll need a USB 3.0 card reader.
 
Well i render all my films whatever the frame rate including 4k 50P on to Seagate Expansion 2 TB USB 3.0 Desktop 3.5 inch External Hard Drives for PC, Xbox One and PlayStation 4 the films play perfectly either on my PC or my Sansum 4k TVs via their USBs
 
Vesku said:
GH5 e-shutter in photos is slower than GH4. Dont take photos of moving subjects with e-shutter. This is odd because Panasonic says the new sensor is faster than in GH4.

http://m43photo.blogspot.fi/2017/04/gh5-e-shutter-is-slower.html

GH5 e-shutter seems to be as slow in JPG and RAW photos. Here is another comparison using banding from lights. The more bands the slower sensor reading. E-M1 mk2 is almost 3 times faster!

View attachment 123089
Click to expand...
Shame on them! So sure I won't sleep tonight! : ( LOL ;-)

Probably not even tomorrow night
...until they'll fix, no more photos! The world will lose a photographer! Those bitches must learn a lesson!

Strike1.jpg

: D

EDIT -- Thanks for the link anyway! :-)
 
Well i have tried but for what i mainly want my GH5 and 100-400mm are just not up to the job,my RX10 MK11 blows the pants off it for resolving detail,using the same lens with my previous GH4 the results were better.
https://vimeo.com/215202747
As it says the last clip from each camera are not the same,The GH5 had as near as i could see the same detail as my HC-100 with a 1.5 extender thats not good enough.Every test i have done with my different lenses the RX10 resolves more detail.If different TV systems show anything different the uploaded file tells the truth. The origional camera files look exactly the same as the reduced Mbps upload due to vimeo space.
 
flinty said:
Well i have tried but for what i mainly want my GH5 and 100-400mm are just not up to the job,my RX10 MK11 blows the pants off it for resolving detail,using the same lens with my previous GH4 the results were better.
https://vimeo.com/215202747
As it says the last clip from each camera are not the same,The GH5 had as near as i could see the same detail as my HC-100 with a 1.5 extender thats not good enough.Every test i have done with my different lenses the RX10 resolves more detail.If different TV systems show anything different the uploaded file tells the truth. The origional camera files look exactly the same as the reduced Mbps upload due to vimeo space.
Click to expand...
Wow that is a significant difference!
As you recorded on a tripod did turn off all stabilization (OIS, IBIS and e-stabilization) on the GH5?
 
The GH5 shots look out of focus to me. What where your exact settings. I have moved to the GH5 from camcorders but find the image very sharp.
 
Ron Evans said:
The GH5 shots look out of focus to me. What where your exact settings. I have moved to the GH5 from camcorders but find the image very sharp.
Click to expand...

Same here Ron, but I moved from the GH4. I have experienced improved low light capability, unquestionable improved image quality, Color science seems to be improved and improved functionality. I do not have any knowledge on how it fairs up with the RX10 MK11.
 
flinty said:
Well i have tried but for what i mainly want my GH5 and 100-400mm are just not up to the job,my RX10 MK11 blows the pants off it for resolving detail,using the same lens with my previous GH4 the results were better.
https://vimeo.com/215202747
As it says the last clip from each camera are not the same,The GH5 had as near as i could see the same detail as my HC-100 with a 1.5 extender thats not good enough.Every test i have done with my different lenses the RX10 resolves more detail.If different TV systems show anything different the uploaded file tells the truth. The origional camera files look exactly the same as the reduced Mbps upload due to vimeo space.
Click to expand...

Do you happen to know the aperture used in each setup? This looks like diffraction from closing the lens too much. It isn't just the softness but how the GH5 samples look to have a glow to them. Since the GH5 has a larger sensor than the RX10 the lens needs to be stopped down more which could cause an increase in diffraction.

Also did you use any ND filters or any other type of filters on the GH5 but not the Sony?
 
firstlly the GH5 was manualy focused and set to the apeture setiing that looked best,f8 mostly,my RX10 III is sharper than my GH5 with all my 3 zoom lenses.
https://vimeo.com/182316200 The 100-400mm resolved more on my GH4 pretty even with the RX10.
 
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