Taylor Rudd
Veteran
p.s. james, can you shoot some of your work my way? i want to put it side by side with other videos posted here to see how you made yours look more filmic
Lets compare clips to be realistic.
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Ryan Paige
Member
I don't know how not shooting a movie will give a better chance of success than shooting a movie. I can't think of a single time when that equation has produced the best results.
And I've certainly never heard of a movie shot with a brochure.
jls4
Veteran
Agreed - and have we forgotten that 28 Days Later, and other movies were shot with a freakin MiniDV Camera. So now a camera with almost 4 times the data rate, a better codec, multiple framrates AND 5 times the resolution isn't good enough.
Goodness. Movies first and formost are about the people behind the camera, not the camera itself. It doesn't matter if you put a 1 Million dollar Panavision Camera in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it, the movie will not be better than someone with a MiniDV camera that knows how to get the best out of it.
And I'm a huge RED fan, but we waited on the RED One for over a year and it's been about that for the Epic and Scarlett and the RED folks are still saying they need more time. I had my money ready in June when the Scarlett was supposed to be released. I want to shoot in October, not next June. LOL
And this here is the problem, you seem to have a pretty narrow view of what is an acceptable look for "movies". As has been said a million times before, your view is the crutch of people who aren't good filmmakers. I'm not a good filmmaker and I will likely never be one...but I can be absolutely sure that I never will if I never start shooting because I'm always waiting for the next big jump in technology that will finally "level" the playing field.
Anybody who is still waiting for a Scarlet instead of picking up what they can now (and that doesn't have to be a 7D, there are tons of great options) and shooting is setting themselves up for failure. There is far more than goes into making a good looking movie than the acquisition device. For an indie director, you're probably also going to need to learn a lot about lighting your scene, you need to learn about blocking, you need to learn about lenses and focal lengths and apertures, you need to learn how to DIRECT your actors.
You can't do that if you're not out shooting. Period.
And damn, if THIS isn't good enough image quality for a documentary....**** me.
http://vimeo.com/6487566
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William_Robinette
Shallow Member
+1
This is the most absurd thread I have read on DVXuser in a long while, and there have been some strange ones. It has been said and said by many over the past few months, but it isn't sinking in for some reason.
If you cannot create a film that is engrossing and engages the viewer with the tools we all now have available, you are in the wrong business.
I for one have seen a crap-load of "my kid in the backyard" and "this is my living room" and "here is something that I almost nailed focus on" pieces coming out since the introduction of VDSLRs but it's all (actually most isn't) this kind of faux eye candy. I have not seen anything of real substance (story line, character arc, conflict/resolution) yet made with one of these save for one or two pieces.
And I ask my self, why? Is it because the people buying these don't want to shoot things of that nature and just want to film the aforementioned events? That's fine by me, but then why the blanket statements on what camera everyone needs to wait for, that you cannot use this as a professional tool, that it has x,y,z shortcoming, etc. Why do you need >12 minute record times if you are filming random stuff around your city (and to imagine how they do it with 35mm, oh my!), why do you need a RAW acquisition codec of you are filming your cat or shining a flashlight into a jury-rigged anamorphic adapter hanging off the front of your lens? What I am getting at here is everyone talks about the short coming and flaws of these new cameras as if they are be-alls and end-alls of whether you can make a film or not with them, but I don't see anyone actually trying to do it.
And you know what the best part is? The first person to do it is going to shut a lot of people up. Because when that happens, everyone else is going to realize it is their skill and talent and not their equipment that is holding them back, but people don't like dump on themselves if they can find another scape goat.
I'm not a RED fanboy, but Scarlet will be better then the 5d/7d. It has to be. If you have worked with RED before you know this. Problem is it might not cost as little as either of those cameras, and why should it? If something has more features and it overall a better image acquisition device, why shouldn't you have to pay more for it? Like Barry said, if you cannot make back what you spent on a 7D kit in a job or two you are doing something wrong. If you cannot make a film with the 7D then you are doing something wrong. Hell, remember the little old DVX? 720x480 (less for 16:9) still makes me good money, and I and many others still make films with it that are well recieved.
This isn't directed at anyone here, and I love numbers as much as the next guy, but if you are going to talk about the impossible nature of making a film on any of these cameras, I'm calling bullshit.
There are people on this very board shooting narrative and professional jobs with these cameras (Zak, Kholi, Elton, others) right now. I promise you, it can be done.
/rant
Amen Will. On that note.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=182929
People need to be doing more of this instead of staring in the corner of their screens for aliasing and noise.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=182929
People need to be doing more of this instead of staring in the corner of their screens for aliasing and noise.
Ryan Paige
Member
"This is my living room" is actually the title of my next short film.
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
LOL My next one is called "Kittens, Trains and Flowers at f1.4 - An Ode to Focus"
I'm working on "Out My Bedroom Window Into The Dark Night - One Man's Journey Into Noise."
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
LOL Isaac I have about 5 of those from when I was building a static adapter for the HF100, we should do a compilation DVD, with special features on close ups of car parts and kitchen appliances :grin:
Oh and the unrated version of "This is My Girlfriend/Wife: ANGRY!"
Did anyone else see the trailer to "My Girlfriend's Hot And She Doesn't Know I'm Pimping Her Out On Vimeo?"
Zim
Veteran
28 Days Later would have sucked with the 7D. The 7D is not going to work with everything. To me it is still looking like great HD video. I'm just not getting the "film" look from it.
Like the D300s the pros and others put out great looking video. Others not so good. I'm would guess the 7D will be the same. Only really seeing pro stuff now.
I'm still probably getting the Nikon because the photography side will blow away the Canon. Still up in the air on the video from either camera. But I still have my DVX100b.
Like the D300s the pros and others put out great looking video. Others not so good. I'm would guess the 7D will be the same. Only really seeing pro stuff now.
I'm still probably getting the Nikon because the photography side will blow away the Canon. Still up in the air on the video from either camera. But I still have my DVX100b.
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
LINKS!Did anyone else see the trailer to "My Girlfriend's Hot And She Doesn't Know I'm Pimping Her Out On Vimeo?"
WTF 28 Days Later is mediocre looking SD video!!!! LOL
jamesmallonuk
Well-known member
Some of you guys are a little strange whipping yourself up into a frenzy arguing against opinions I didn't ever say.
1.I never said the 7D couldn't be used for a movie.
2. Never said the tool is more important than the filmaker.
3. Never said its impossible to make a movie with a cheap DV camera.
4. Never said the 7D can't be great camera for doc work, I actually think its great for it.
etc....
Just said the Scarlett might be BETTER than the 7D and it might be BETTER to wait a relatively short time if you have invested a lot of planning etc in a Short etc.
Its feels like some of you have strong feelings about equipment vs talent thing, It wasn't my point.
I guess its the nature of forums people take responses to questions and what other people wrongly think was said etc and start to see something that was never said. I'm guessing there is some learning disabilities in the mix here.
funny thing is everyone ends up agreeing with me that the Scarlett will probably be better than the 7D. But you want to shot in the meantime with a 7D, sure why not. never said you shouldn't just suggested that interim period might be short and not worth the bother. And if its about the filmker not the tool then why are you scambling for the 7D anyway? use your GODDAMN IPHONE and back your opinion up with action.
1.I never said the 7D couldn't be used for a movie.
2. Never said the tool is more important than the filmaker.
3. Never said its impossible to make a movie with a cheap DV camera.
4. Never said the 7D can't be great camera for doc work, I actually think its great for it.
etc....
Just said the Scarlett might be BETTER than the 7D and it might be BETTER to wait a relatively short time if you have invested a lot of planning etc in a Short etc.
Its feels like some of you have strong feelings about equipment vs talent thing, It wasn't my point.
I guess its the nature of forums people take responses to questions and what other people wrongly think was said etc and start to see something that was never said. I'm guessing there is some learning disabilities in the mix here.
funny thing is everyone ends up agreeing with me that the Scarlett will probably be better than the 7D. But you want to shot in the meantime with a 7D, sure why not. never said you shouldn't just suggested that interim period might be short and not worth the bother. And if its about the filmker not the tool then why are you scambling for the 7D anyway? use your GODDAMN IPHONE and back your opinion up with action.
jls4
Veteran
Film look in my opinion doesn't exist anyway. Just media hype. I just shot with a Sony V1U and the movie came out pretty good. I've seen things shot with everything from the DVX to the XL-1 to the XA1 to the EX1 to the RED to the super high end Sony. It's all opinion based anyway. If the 7D is not for you, then it's not for you.
I had in my mind to go for an EX1 + SGBlade + Nano Flash Combo, but this little 7D trumps this combo. I couldn't sell my current camera because I was finishing up two projects, so I needed the camera - good thing I waited. While the 7D doesn't replace my "Scarlett Dreams" it does give me a camera I can use for the next 9 to 12 months while the RED folks firstly - get the Scarlett of the drawing board and into reality and then give all the "first owners" plenty of time to debug the d&mn thing. LOL
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
Learning disabilities? Really, this is your come back? Thnx for backtracking on your points BTW. " I said it MIGHT be this, it MIGHT be that"Some of you guys are a little strange whipping yourself up into a frenzy arguing against opinions I didn't ever say.
1.I never said the 7D couldn't be used for a movie.
2. Never said the tool is more important than the filmaker.
3. Never said its impossible to make a movie with a cheap DV camera.
4. Never said the 7D can't be great camera for doc work, I actually think its great for it.
etc....
Just said the Scarlett might be BETTER than the 7D and it might be BETTER to wait a relatively short time if you have invested a lot of planning etc in a Short etc.
Its feels like some of you have strong feelings about equipment vs talent thing, It wasn't my point.
I guess its the nature of forums people take responses to questions and what other people wrongly think was said etc and start to see something that was never said. I'm guessing there is some learning disabilities in the mix here.
funny thing is everyone ends up agreeing with me that the Scarlett will probably be better than the 7D. But you want to shot in the meantime with a 7D, sure why not. never said you shouldn't just suggested that interim period might be short and not worth the bother. And if its about the filmker not the tool then why are you scambling for the 7D anyway? use your GODDAMN IPHONE and back your opinion up with action.
Well at least you are consistently condescending.
Zim
Veteran
That is one of the things that made it good. The director could have used any camera or film stock he wanted to at the time. He had the money.
I don't want to see 28 Days Later looking like Planet Earth
I don't want to see 28 Days Later looking like Planet Earth
Rakesh Jacob
Veteran
Zim
Veteran
Really just media hype? People have been talking about how to get that on the DVX board for years. That is what the DVX100 was all about I thought!!
Great, if waiting works for you then wait. We've been waiting two years for Scarlet, and if you have nothing to shoot and can wait for the tech train to catch up to your expectations by all means do so. However, a camera that exists and you can look at footage from and with preproduction models in shooters hands will always beat a camera that is unreleased and only exists in PDF's. You have no idea what the Red timetable is and as they've made abundantly clear "Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it" Red says that for a reason, they say that so people don't make shooting plans around their unreleased cameras and unfixed timetable. They say that as a warning to the people sitting on the fence that they could be sitting for a long time.
It's now Fall, there is only one camera from Red that is released. I'm excited for what they have in store but with all the changes they've made I am not going to sit around for an unknown camera that I don't know what the specs are and I don't even know what the pricepoint is. I do know this though, Red makes professional cameras and with that comes a price that reflects that value. That price is actually more expensive than it appears on paper when you factor in all the accessories and the post costs required to maximize your image and deliver to clients on time. They are really out of the pricerange for those people picking up 7D's and GH1's. If I'm wrong and Red has totally scrapped their plans and is geared towards the lower end market then I'll be very surprised. The 2/3 Scarlet that was originally announced would have been great a year ago, but the market changed and there's no way the S35 Scarlet would be priced near the bargain price of a 7D or GH1. That would totally gut the Red One and Epic market. That would make zero sense from a business perspective. I have no idea what they have planned but the original plan doesn't seem as attractive when you think of what the GH1, 7D, and 5D offer.
Anyway, you've made your point, you've riled some feathers, so please give it a rest.
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