Lets compare clips to be realistic.

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jamesmallonuk

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You know when a new camera like this comes out people lose perspective. I really want a cheap DSLR to work as a filmaking tool I really do, and wonder if it will be Nikon who produces something that really looks like a serious tool. Of course we have heard all the arguments that a tool is just part of the work and with these digital VDSLR they can in the right hands be a filmaking tool.

But I would argue that I haven't seen one single clip of any DSLR that if I turn my technical brain off can be convinced it is anything more than good video. Red footage when properly graded and shot can truely allow you to believe you are watching a movie. So in conclusion I've yet to see something that will change my mind. Sure tha VDSLR's could be a great tool for certain tasks but if anyone here is an 'indie filmaker' they should wait for the scarlett and not waste their money. I think the Canons are way too contrasty for one thing.

So I challenge anyone to post DSLR work that can convince were are watching a movie. Here's a clip form the RED to get the ball rolling its by far the best I've seen but it furthurs my point. And yes lighting etc makes the difference but lets have some DSLR footage that is as convincing.

http://www.thedoorpost.com/hope/La Premiere/
 
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light properly, desaturate your image, give it a sepia tone, and lower your contrast.... Not too difficult in my opinion and easily achievable.
 
jamesmallonuk said:
I really want a cheap DSLR to work as a filmaking tool I really do/
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Okay, work with me here, but -- WHY?

Why would anyone want to shoot a movie on a DSLR?

Aren't we putting the cart before the horse, or getting completely twisted around here?

What I want is a proper video camera that has the shallow DOF of the recent DSLRs, the lens interchangeability, and the low price. But I certainly don't WANT a DSLR. I'll take it, if it's the only way to get the low price and DOF look, but the DSLR is about the worst form factor, the least designed for the purpose of making proper video and film-looking projects.
 
Agree, nobody here "WANTS" a DSLR, right now we are getting the image aesthetic we as a community have grown to worship and idolize in a really cheap product. And honestly it's caught us of gaurd and made us feel unshackled by combersome adapters, high prices (for some) and riging and for now we are loving it. That's all, nothing more for the most part. As the product development pushes forward we'll start seeing more of the features we need as videographers and filmmakers. And remember filmmaking is not about a "look" or about a process, it's about communicating ideas and conveying emotion. I don't care 2 s**ts about your latitude, dynamic range, DoF, composition, exposure, lighting, codec, etc... if you can't tell a story.
 
What I want is a proper video camera that has the shallow DOF of the recent DSLRs, the lens interchangeability, and the low price.
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Yes, you want the HPX170 with 4/3 sensor. We can dream. Maybe Panasonic will listen.
 
John Caballero said:
Yes, you want the HPX170 with 4/3 sensor. We can dream. Maybe Panasonic will listen.
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Yeah, exactly. I mean, I love the little GH1, I'm looking forward to the 7D, but... seriously, it's mainly about the price tag. Plus I'm hoping beyond hope that there'll be a Magic Lantern hack for the 7D to give it some more usability (audio meters, zebras, etc).

But the minute there's a proper video camera that does proper ergonomics, connectivity, monitoring, and workflow, man, the DSLR loses pretty much all appeal.

Except for the killer price tag. :)
 
I would make one all day, and people are doing it inspite of the short comings. True artists are those who will make a movie on their camera phone if that all they had to get their vision across. Not only would they make it on a camera phone, but probably win awards. I've not seen footage from any sub $10,000 video camera rendering the images coming from these new dslrs.
 
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ryansheffer said:
Because I want to shoot a movie without permits - in Los Angeles.
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Ditto on the guerilla shooting. No one really bats an eye when someone has a DSLR in a public place, at least where I'm from. Pair that with a zoom H4n in my pocket and some wireless mics and you can shoot wherever there's light!
 
I know it can be a PITA at times, but the formfactor of the DSLR can also be a saving grace at time. I'm glad that in the near future we will have video and stills cameras with footage that will seamlessly integrate with one another.
 
I actually like the form-factor for most handheld situations. the last shot of Mo/Pho had to be done "blind" because I was holding the D90 against the windshield in front of the actor. No way for me to monitor the shot other than set focus, burn off a few tests positions to check composition before letting her rip.

so an articulating LCD screen would be nice.
 
Comparing clips only does any good if the shots are identical. Even then, all it does is shows you potential weaknesses of the technology. With that information you compensate. There is a hell of a lot more than a camera on a proper set. The right equipment also depends on what's needed. The OP here asks for something that convinces us we're watching a real movie; real movies can be shot on cell phones if everything else is done right, so there's no convincing to be done.

That said, watching clips from a certain camera can give you an idea of its ability and general look if you know the lighting situation and other variables. But you have to know that to know if it applies at all. I looked those up before getting a GH1, the ones taken at events and the like (not on set) worked because I knew the lighting setup was natural only.
 
I think the video from these VDSLR are going to have some good uses and you knows what a person might do with it. My main reason for getting a new DSLR is for photography. The video will be a nice plus for some internet stuff, music video on the run interviews etc. I will probably go with the D300s. I just like Nikon and probably not going to switch for the HD video.
 
the stealth factor and portability both make slr's really well suited for the shooting style we used on my feature fuerteventura. we had the option to shoot on the red one or 16mm but chose the d90 for those reasons. it was a major pain with the lack of manual control, but i'm happy with the results. we've blown up the trailer to 35mm to see if the pretty soft quality would hold up for mainstream theatrical distribution, and it definitely does both we, the post house, the distributors, and the test audience agreed. it's not 4k or even real hd but sharper than sd, which many mainstream movies were actually shot in, and the 35mm dof helps making it cinematic too. check it out:

http://vimeo.com/4293535 (pass: luifer)

/m
 
jamesmallonuk said:
I think the Canons are way too contrasty for one thing.

So I challenge anyone to post DSLR work that can convince were are watching a movie. Here's a clip form the RED to get the ball rolling its by far the best I've seen but it furthurs my point. And yes lighting etc makes the difference but lets have some DSLR footage that is as convincing.

http://www.thedoorpost.com/hope/La Premiere/
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Have you looked at my MKII test? I've had a lot of positive feedback about its filmic look and all I did was dial down the contrast and sharpness on the neutral setting with minimal grading.

I'll take you up on your challenge, I've got loads of narrative stuff to shoot over the next year and although I have free access to a RED I think I'll be shooting everything on either the MKII or 7D.
 
@mattsand Dude your movie looks like it's gonna be badass, love, love, love the concept!!!!

@squig Looks good man, but who the hell let you procreate! ;p
 
Johnny Cola said:
@mattsand Dude your movie looks like it's gonna be badass, love, love, love the concept!!!!

@squig Looks good man, but who the hell let you procreate! ;p
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hehe, it was an accident, both times! I breed bond girls.....now I need a big gun to keep them away from the likes of you :D A plan sure to fail.

the big question is who let matt procreate? and why make us suffer?
 
Now, this example isn't perfect, because in the original shot the blacks are too crushed and there is too much contrast in camera from the original, but if you were to soften the sharpness in camera and lower the contrast and saturation, you could probably get something a lot closer to what he RED delivers:

This is only a simulated look:

7dlowcontrast.jpg
 
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