Lets compare clips to be realistic.

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To me it is still looking like great HD video. I'm just not getting the "film" look from it.
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Don't worry, people that truly know what they are doing are going to have no problem getting the most out of the 7D. All the elements for great imagery are there, but as usual only the very talented don't complain but go out and make things happen for themselves. Is a great time for real creative individuals.
 
jamesmallonuk said:
Just said the Scarlett might be BETTER than the 7D and it might be BETTER to wait a relatively short time if you have invested a lot of planning etc in a Short etc.

funny thing is everyone ends up agreeing with me that the Scarlet will probably be better than the 7D. But you want to shot in the meantime with a 7D, sure why not. never said you shouldn't just suggested that interim period might be short and not worth the bother. And if its about the filmker not the tool then why are you scambling for the 7D anyway? use your GODDAMN IPHONE and back your opinion up with action.
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You didn't say the interim might be short but if you want to shoot on a 7D in the meantime, why not. You said that a wise person would wait the indefinite amount of time for the Scarlet.

It seems that you believe that the "first look" comments mean the camera is going to be out and available for anybody who wants one within a month or so of the 7D's availability.

If there was any indication that the "IF everything goes right" that an undefined "we" will get a "first look" at the camera within a couple of months meant that I could have the camera in my hands by the end of November, then it would make sense to wait.

But, to me anyway, it looks like the best case is that the camera will be shipping around March or so with the thousands of current Red owners getting first dibs. So, even in the best case scenario, a guy like me is probably looking at July or August before being able to actually lay hands on a Scarlet. And that's BEST CASE.

A person can get a lot accomplished in the ten months or so between deliveries. With the 7D only running about $1,700, even a four or five month spread is probably not worth waiting for.

In my opinion, Red would have to have Scarlets shipping to non-current Red customers no later than Thanksgiving to before I would consider the wait to be trivial, and given the statements that the company has made, it seems extremely unlikely that I could have a Scarlet in my hands by then.
 
Jim's words from just under a month ago.

Jannard said:
We have said that much of the delivery dates rely on a successful ASIC spin. We have also indicated that we are not going to rush to release given market conditions and the overwhelming opinion of our customers to put out a finished product and not a prototype. I wouldn't expect any type of update for a couple of months. The schedule should be more clear by then...

Jim
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Take it how you will. They are not going to put out a rushed product that is beta, so I don't expect another release like the Red One. That means more of a delay, but on the good side that hopefully means when it's finally released you won't be dealing with the bugs like the Red One release and everything should work. That could take awhile.
 
You know….among all the comments I have been reading here and there in regards to Red Scarlet I have yet to see anyone mention the possibility that it may never materialize or come to fruition. This economy is a very peculiar thing.
 
I am certain that if there was any doubt about the Scarlet coming to fruition, Red would have said so. They have been astonishingly open about every phase of development. Given that there has been no indication whatsoever of anything other than a recession-induced delay, I have no doubt that the Scarlet program is still fully on track.

From Isaac's post above, it sounds like we won't know anything for at least another month. That post from Jim was made a month ago, and Jim said "I wouldn't expect any type of update for a couple of months". So we may find out something around the beginning of October.
 
Ian-T said:
You know….among all the comments I have been reading here and there in regards to Red Scarlet I have yet to see anyone mention the possibility that it may never materialize or come to fruition. This economy is a very peculiar thing.
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I don't think Scarlet will be scrapped but that's because it's not Jannard's style. He doesn't seem like the type of guy that likes to lose. But then again he's a businessman so he must understand the odds stacked up against him:

  • Scarlet's very existence depends on selling a boat load of them.
  • Much of the Scarlet market has probably evaporated and moved to the lower price point HDSLRs.
  • The still camera guys are a huge threat to Scarlet. Canon, Nikon and eventually Sony will continually improve video in DSLRs. There is no doubt all DSLRs will eventually have video. It will be interesting what Sony does because their Alpha DSLRs could be a threat to their own high end cinema cameras.
  • Compact digital camera sales are stagnant right now because of the economy. Only DSLR sales are growing. They are also more profitable so it's reasonable to expect camera companies will put even more effort in developing DSLRs. In 2008, Canon spent about $500 million in R&D just for the camera division!
  • It will be very hard to compete with the still camera guys on price, volume, sales distribution and time to market.

It's going to be a hell of a fight for Scarlet. Personally, I don't see how it can exist in its current form and price and still sell in volume. Something needs to change since the market has changed.

For example, I use to be in the market for the $3K Scarlet, but no more because I'm not willing to pay that much for a camera anymore. It use to be that $3K for a good video camera was a given. Now with this economy and seeing how fast this stuff improves, it makes no sense for me (not being a professional--just an enthusiast who wants to shoot nice footage and practice) to drop that much dough on an ever improving technology.

Of course, if are making money with this equipment, that's another story. But I wonder how many other people out there are like me--just an enthusiast? I know on the still camera side, the vast majority of DSLR owners are simply enthusiasts. At some point you have to jump in, but I say do it at a price point that won't kill you in depreciation. And definitely don't go into debt to buy this stuff.

Less than $2K for a camera that does "good enough" video but also stills works for me. RED claims Scarlet will also work for stills, but no way in hell it's going to work better than a Canon or Nikon when you consider AF, metering, optical VF, system of lenses and flashes, etc.
 
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sorry to join in on this thread late but the initial statement, i have to put in my two cents, probably argued to death already. but to say a vdslr won't look like a "movie" is really a rough statement.

you have plenty of hollywood feature films intermix prosumer cameras with 35 mm, high end digital cameras, etc. and they all just work, they still look great and hold up fine on a filmout.

a lot of parts of district 9 was shot on ex1, letters of iwo jima and flags of our fathers, a lot of the beach stuff was done with hvx200. cloverfield a lot of hvx200.

so a 7d that can give u the quality of a prosumer camera, with the ease of compact size and price. it may never be widly used in hollywood to shoot an entire film on it (i believe there is a new disney move coming out entirely shot on 5d) but it's just another option out there, another tool to accomplish the tasks you need. if u have to be in a cramped area or have a type of shot that needs a very light camera, 7d is probably gonna be great for that. it's a whole separate market for a whole different tool set.

one screwdriver will never fit all your screws, u need a whole set. this is just gonna be another weapon in the whole arsenal of filmmaking and i think it's great.
 
Zim said:
Really just media hype? People have been talking about how to get that on the DVX board for years. That is what the DVX100 was all about I thought!!
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I used to be that way too. Until I realized that there are too many "film looks." Run Lola Run looks more like High Def and was shot on film. Star Wars: Ep 3 looks like greenscreen and not anything, while most of the movies from the 80s to me look like 35mm. LOL I learned it's not about a look, it's about getting a "look" that fits your movie. You wouldn't want your coming of age drama to look like District 9 or Transformers, yet those are looks. I think it's media hype or maybe dvx hype because indies are more concerned with hwo they "think" people will see their movie instead of just making a good movie. Those who figure out it's about making a good movie, IMO will stop worrying about a look.

But this is my opinion - not fact. After 3 indie films I only concern myself with the issues of Rolling Shutter, multi frame rates and depth of field - the coloring - i.e. "look" can be manipulated in post.
 
90% of the examples given to suggest DV and low end HD cameras are misleading as video was used actually to look like video giving a sense of reality/documantary feel to the scenes or movie. 28 days, blair witch, district 9, cloverfield, Dogma movies etc

all were trying to create that feeling. Video takes you out of the fictional feeling and makes the viewer believe they are seeing is in fact reality.

Digital movies that really don't do this are ones like Benjamin Button and Knowing and they used high end HD and RED respectively.
 
And James is the final arbiter on what does and doesn't look like "video" and he says the 7D doesn't and the brochure that hasn't produced any footage does.

So there.

I was watching a movie on DVD the other day, and I said to myself "this is pretty decent looking video, I wonder what they used." So, I looked it up and the answer was 35mm film. Somehow, they had managed to spend a fortune shooting 35mm and still had not been able to get the "film look".
 
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jamesmallonuk said:
90% of the examples given to suggest DV and low end HD cameras are misleading as video was used actually to look like video giving a sense of reality/documantary feel to the scenes or movie. 28 days, blair witch, district 9, cloverfield, Dogma movies etc

all were trying to create that feeling. Video takes you out of the fictional feeling and makes the viewer believe they are seeing is in fact reality.

Digital movies that really don't do this are ones like Benjamin Button and Knowing and they used high end HD and RED respectively.
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They used RED on District 9 to achieve that video look.

..how is the Scarlet going to be different?
 
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Ryan Paige said:
And James is the final arbiter on what does and doesn't look like "video" and he says the 7D doesn't and the brochure that hasn't produced any footage does.

So there.
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And Ryan is the final Arbiter on what does look like film and he says the 7D does and that the Red sensors won't.

Thanks for thinking my opinions are facts by the way.....I'm touched. So which movie do you disagree looks like video, Cloverfield or Is it Blairwitch.

Here's the thing to disagree you have to actually have the opposite or different opinion, otherwise your Just venting your personal life onto a filmaking forum. I'm a qualified therapist by the way. give me a call anytime your ready.
 
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Barry_Green said:
So we may find out something around the beginning of October.
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Exactly about 4 weeks after the 7D ships, and no-one here thinks its good advice to maybe wait to see what they announce and then make an informed descision. And if the roadmap for the Nikons again proves to be spot on then a first look at the 700x. Oh I forgot most of you will be busy shooting the next Harry Potter movie in October so you'll be super busy those few weeks and must have the 7D for it.
 
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Edit: Was chipping in about the EX1s being used for Security Cam footage. Already covered. This is what I get for reading a hot thread without refreshing :p
 
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