I don't think the question put anyone down.
I do think the discussion of usage for the cam has been interesting.
Is it wrong to say
- Thread starter davidpula
- Start date
I don't think the question put anyone down.
I do think the discussion of usage for the cam has been interesting.
MadHMC150
DVXuser Sponsor
Well said...
We haven't shot a skate video yet! Commercials, live events, weddings, concerts, and music videos so far...
green thumb
Well-known member
I don't even see that many skate videos... currently I see ONE on the first page of videos.
How are you delivering the commercials?
digibeta or something else?
also, what delivery for the live events, ie wedding, concerts, and music videos?
DVD for some?
How about the music videos?
MadHMC150
DVXuser Sponsor
It all depends on the client... We have done anything from raw footage on a 250gb hd, compressed down 720p mp4 files for the internet, DVD (yuck), Blu-ray, etc.
So far renting a 250gb hard drive out is my favorite solution...
Jon Casey
Active member
I do say that this post did kinda throw me off, to be honest. But it's his opinion and is definitely not a consensus, so it really doesn't matter all that much. But to get back to the subject, shooting and watching skateboarding (or action sports like snowboarding and surfing) videos is and probably always will be a big part of my life- it's what got me into filmmaking in the first place, and has introduced me to all the other aspects of filmmaking, which really speaks for itself. And I am really grateful for that.
It's really fun trying to display it in unique ways (even editing it gives me a lot of satisfaction). Though one could say (like David) it has been seemingly covered to death and they are sick of it- but has it been covered more than the narrative film? A dialogue sequence between two people? A bride and groom holding hands and giving a kiss? A musician playing an instrument? I think not... It's the same formula if done right, and deserves the same respect. example: http://www.skateperception.com/viewvideo/20011/
The one thing I just don't get is how one could pose that sort've opinion when this forum is about quality/creative filmmaking- in every aspect. I know I come here to see interesting and inspiring videos, though I do admit they do seem a little sparse since I first joined dvxuser last Spring, but I digress, everyone must shoot what inspires them or pays the bills, or filmmaking simply doesn't progress... But, I think David's opinion shows a complete lack of respect for creative filmmaking, I don't care what aspect it is. Now I could see if the skateboarding videos posted on here were shitty, and ill-composed, but they're not... For instance, look at some of the ones I've posted, tell me they are shitty, or lack a complete sense of style or structure.. If someone wants to get creative with a certain subject and try to display it in a unique way, what right do you have to hate on it? Who cares if it is skateboarding, or bmx, or paintball-It's about the way the subject is shot, and the emotions one can get from the way it is edited.
Thanks for listening- if you do, peace.
It's really fun trying to display it in unique ways (even editing it gives me a lot of satisfaction). Though one could say (like David) it has been seemingly covered to death and they are sick of it- but has it been covered more than the narrative film? A dialogue sequence between two people? A bride and groom holding hands and giving a kiss? A musician playing an instrument? I think not... It's the same formula if done right, and deserves the same respect. example: http://www.skateperception.com/viewvideo/20011/
The one thing I just don't get is how one could pose that sort've opinion when this forum is about quality/creative filmmaking- in every aspect. I know I come here to see interesting and inspiring videos, though I do admit they do seem a little sparse since I first joined dvxuser last Spring, but I digress, everyone must shoot what inspires them or pays the bills, or filmmaking simply doesn't progress... But, I think David's opinion shows a complete lack of respect for creative filmmaking, I don't care what aspect it is. Now I could see if the skateboarding videos posted on here were shitty, and ill-composed, but they're not... For instance, look at some of the ones I've posted, tell me they are shitty, or lack a complete sense of style or structure.. If someone wants to get creative with a certain subject and try to display it in a unique way, what right do you have to hate on it? Who cares if it is skateboarding, or bmx, or paintball-It's about the way the subject is shot, and the emotions one can get from the way it is edited.
Thanks for listening- if you do, peace.
Superfresa66
Well-known member
I just want to make sure people know you mean "Davidpula" and not "David S" i got confused for a minute!
I do agree that people should record whatever makes their creative juices flow... I for one could say that i have implemented some shots that i see on skateboarding videos into wedding videos, You might think it's crazy for a second, but if you can benefit from seeing the world thru someone else's eyes then you might see that everything is not just black or white!
Just a perfect example of this view is an EventDV top 25 award winner Joe Simon... he comes from a skateboard/bmx background and is one of the best in the wedding video industry
http://www.joesimonproductions.com/
People should film what they want and stop wasting time complaining about someone's creative work, if you think is bad then do one and see what it takes before complaining!
my 2 cents
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
Wow...
I'm trying to abstain from posting but I don't think that his opinion is disrespectful at all... If this forum is about what everyone is saying, then there is nothing wrong with wanting to see more out of the camera than the same thing over and over again. I personally don't like seeing skateboard video after skateboard video in this forum when there are so many more different types of videos in other forums- it makes this camera seem like a plaything. I am working on heavier projects and am finding it difficult to get respect for what I am doing because every time I turn around someone is shoving a skate video or a wedding video or bmx video in my face. Where are the features; where are the big projects? Where are the people pushing the camera to new limits and to new directions? I don't think that is an unfair question and I think it is selfish and a little immature not to ask it, or at the very least understand it.
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
The HVX forum has so much more to offer it's users... I want more here.
(in the way of different types of footage)
(in the way of different types of footage)
matt s.
Veteran
Are you serious? You do have the option of not viewing any of these types of videos so I would be safe to assume that no one is shoving them in your face. I would also assume that there are tons of other 150 users out there that do not belong to these forums.If you dont get repect for your projercts how is that the blame of someone shooting some action sports?
The 150 has been out almost a year but really these forums really didnt start to take off until a few months ago so I say give it some time as more and more users seem to be popping up here.
I haven't seen near the penetration of different and higher variety videos with the 150 than the 170 and other p2 based cams. That may be a function of how long is has been available, or that a different user has purchased the cam for different shooting environments.
I don't know how to gauge that
But there appears to be a narrower sampling than the 170/200/200a.
That's just an observation.
I don't know how to gauge that
But there appears to be a narrower sampling than the 170/200/200a.
That's just an observation.
matt s.
Veteran
True David. I got the 150 as soon as it was released and i remember the activity here was much less than what it has been the past several months.It has definitely increased. I feel that more people are just now starting to purchase the camera and joining the forums. seems like theres been a new memeber here almost everyday which is a good sign 
green thumb
Well-known member
Um... again, actually go look through the video section. its mostly flowers and test shots...
Pharpsied said "Where are the features; where are the big projects?"
Interesting point - has anyone actually made a narrative feature with this cam? Is it up to the task? Seems it would be easier to work with than the GH1 yet someone has actually completed a movie on that little camera.
Interesting point - has anyone actually made a narrative feature with this cam? Is it up to the task? Seems it would be easier to work with than the GH1 yet someone has actually completed a movie on that little camera.
matt s.
Veteran
Yep I have. In post now. 3rd lo-budget feature i have shot. first 2 were with the 100A. Coming from the 100A & tape the 150 was so much better and easier to work with and totally up to the task.
Mike Harvey
Veteran
For whatever it's worth, I've been using it to shoot coach's cam for the Seattle Sounders FC (Major League Soccer) for the past couple of months, as well as my church's weekly announcement videos. It's been great.
Is it up to the task for features? Absolutely (see matt s. above). It just seems to me that for weddings and events, and for skate/BMX type videos, the camera just naturally excels. Great picture, long record times on cheap media, and a generally inexpensive camera. Most people wanting to make features seam to be going the HPX170/P2 route. At least, that's the impression I get. I plan on hopefully shooting some promotional/training video type stuff in the next couple of months with this (as soon as the client has enough time).
Pharpsied - please don't take this the wrong way... but chill. The fact that you can't get "respect" because "every time you turn around someone is shoving a skate video or a wedding video or bmx video in your face." isn't the fault of the people doing the "shoving". The respect your work garners shouldn't be dependent of the camera you use, but on how YOU use it. Are potential clients turning you away because of the camera you use? If so, then chances are they're idiots, and they're doing you a favor. Otherwise, if your work isn't getting the "respect" that you feel it deserves because of the camera you are using because someone is also using it to shoot... *gasp*... weddings or skate videos, then you need to ask yourself if it's the camera... or you. I've seen beautiful stuff shot with an HV20, and absolute crap shot with a RED. It's merely a tool, dude.
Oh, and your post makes it look like you're looking down your nose at wedding and skate videos. Personally, I don't like skate videos, just because it's not my cup of tea. But the folks making them are sure proud of them, and probably put a lot of hard work into them. Some of them probably suck, and some are probably great. The fact that they're skate videos doesn't somehow make them "lesser" videos. Same with weddings. They're hard work, and people are making pretty decent livings on them. I would hardly call a camera used to shoot weddings a "plaything"... unless you also consider the Canon A1/G1 and the Sony EX1/EX3 playthings as well. Because if you search Vimeo, there are plenty of weddings shot with those.
Like I said, it's a tool. Nothing more.
And no one is shoving anything in your face. You choose to click on the link to go into the footage section, and choose to click on the link to view the videos. No one is making you watch anything, let alone shoving it in your face.
Is it up to the task for features? Absolutely (see matt s. above). It just seems to me that for weddings and events, and for skate/BMX type videos, the camera just naturally excels. Great picture, long record times on cheap media, and a generally inexpensive camera. Most people wanting to make features seam to be going the HPX170/P2 route. At least, that's the impression I get. I plan on hopefully shooting some promotional/training video type stuff in the next couple of months with this (as soon as the client has enough time).
Pharpsied - please don't take this the wrong way... but chill. The fact that you can't get "respect" because "every time you turn around someone is shoving a skate video or a wedding video or bmx video in your face." isn't the fault of the people doing the "shoving". The respect your work garners shouldn't be dependent of the camera you use, but on how YOU use it. Are potential clients turning you away because of the camera you use? If so, then chances are they're idiots, and they're doing you a favor. Otherwise, if your work isn't getting the "respect" that you feel it deserves because of the camera you are using because someone is also using it to shoot... *gasp*... weddings or skate videos, then you need to ask yourself if it's the camera... or you. I've seen beautiful stuff shot with an HV20, and absolute crap shot with a RED. It's merely a tool, dude.
Oh, and your post makes it look like you're looking down your nose at wedding and skate videos. Personally, I don't like skate videos, just because it's not my cup of tea. But the folks making them are sure proud of them, and probably put a lot of hard work into them. Some of them probably suck, and some are probably great. The fact that they're skate videos doesn't somehow make them "lesser" videos. Same with weddings. They're hard work, and people are making pretty decent livings on them. I would hardly call a camera used to shoot weddings a "plaything"... unless you also consider the Canon A1/G1 and the Sony EX1/EX3 playthings as well. Because if you search Vimeo, there are plenty of weddings shot with those.
Like I said, it's a tool. Nothing more.
And no one is shoving anything in your face. You choose to click on the link to go into the footage section, and choose to click on the link to view the videos. No one is making you watch anything, let alone shoving it in your face.
Jon Casey
Active member
This is a little confusing... This forum is about the statement made at the beginning, but definitely has sparked a discussion about many different things.
First off, This camera isn't even close to "The" camera that is known for covering action sports- look to the Sony vx1000 for constant useage for skateboarding. Most skateboarding videographers either can't afford the HMC, don't feel like switching, or are stubborn with changing to the HD world... They hold they're VX1000's dear...No other camera has captured more skateboarding, I'd say. So, good for you.
Like Green Thumb and host of others keep saying, skateboarding/action sport videos hardly rule this forum. You're definitely over-exaggerating a bit, guy. If you look at the screen grab/ footage forum right now you will see that there is a wide range of subjects captured with the HMC150, and it generally remains that way, which is cool. I don't want to look on the forum every other day and see all skateboarding videos either- but it won't happen, so I shouldn't worry and neither should you. There are a huge variety of filmmakers on here- all with different fields of interest AND different employers, so get used to it.
As for the "Plaything" comment- that's just disrespectful. I'll say it again and again, until I die- If a person can and does display a subject (I don't care what it is) in a creative way, what right do you have to hate on it- you're pretty much just hating on yourself because you don't know/ and or can't respect creativity. It's in the little things, the little details, and expressions.
You can see how popular not only skateboarding is becoming but action sports in general by looking into you're favorite magazine and seeing the deodorant you use have an ad this month of a skateboarder grinding a hand rail. It takes a huge amount of skill and practice to become as good as you see of some of the skateboarders and the documentarians of action sports out there are. This alone demands respect. I'd like to see you try your hand at it, you'll quickly find out how much patience and determination it really takes to do. My point is that it's becoming more and more accepted- there's nothing you can do about that..
I don't really understand this statement because of the simple fact that you can easily just disregard the (seemingly un-inspiring) skateboarding/ action sports (or even test videos!), dig a little deeper, and find compelling works of art done on the HMC. It just takes a little effort and patience sometimes! The camera isn't even that old, nor coveted/ known. These forums will continue to grow! You get what we're saying?
These videos have nothing to do with what you produce-
Show us the kind've work you do! Then we can see where this theory of "can't get no respect when all these skateboarding videos are everywhere" comes.... Show us what new and exciting filmmaking you can bring to these "heavier" projects. And what different light you can shed on them. To be honest the HMC150 is still a prosumer camera! If you bring it on a film set that is shooting with a RED and go "Hey! I want to set up my HMC as a "B" camera! Is that cool?" They Will laugh at you! This camera is great, no lie, but still- it is no Varicam, XLH1, or even a Sony ex1/or ex3. It shoots in 4:2:0 for christs' sake... but I still love mine, and will continue to use it to shoot whatever it may be- car shows, skateboarding, documentaries, short films, even feature films.
Take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs22fOl9G1M
I think that's pushin' it right there...
This was poorly composed. It's a bit hard to fully understand what you mean right here. I could be wrong, but I think you are trying to say that WE, the people that don't agree with his statement, are immature because we refuse to agree with his arbitrary comment? If so, I don't feel that we, the people, don't understand it- we just don't support it! On a merit basis! It has none!
Hey, there are a couple David's here.
Melvin Harris
Black Flag Member
Wait a tic...
I'm not the OP. All I did was justify my personal opinion of the position he took. I am sorry that I did not use Victorian English to make the point, but it's just a forum. There is nothing wrong with wanting to see more. Experience more. I don't understand why I have to be satisfied with just "not clicking." I also shouldn't have to always dig deeper for more stimulating examples of work with this camera. If you are alluding to my being a tool for desiring more, fine, but don't distill my comments to a series of disjointed non sequiturs, the points were cogent; the reasoning was there and my point is sound.
Look, Jon Casey, watch what you want. Do what you want. Since you are such a fan of a certain type of video, then watch and be merry. However, there are other things in the world beside flowers, weddings (Vimeo has a video that gives an interesting take on the wedding thing- it's cool), trees, skateboards, and young adults looking morose as the focus racks between them and a candle or a train track or something.
Are you so naive that you would honestly believe that there are not people who cite a lack of serious projects created with a tool as a measure of said tool? There are people who intend to work miracles with this camera and they deserve to get as much information and support as possible. If I was a weaker person, and trolled through this site looking for a camera to buy, I wouldn't spend as much time on the HMC stuff as I would on others because the projects, the examples, the tangible results of the versatility or power or features of this camera in a myriad of shooting environments and situations is not there (to my personal satisfaction, and maybe to others as well)- bottom line. I am not attacking creativity, but I am saying that the abundance of these videos do not show the breadth of the tool's feature set, the strength or weakness of the codec, the interoperability (with the systems consisting of the tool and the operator and the editor) of the hardware/software, and yes, the creativity of the people who wield the tool in something other than demo videos. I just want to see more sometimes and I'm not sorry for that.
Also, "show me what you got" is an antiquated way of dealing with an opposing viewpoint. Honestly, trying to goad person who you believe a lesser intellect into such an inane and cliched confrontation is telling. When it is time for you to see, you will; when it's time for me to share, I will... not a moment sooner or later. Period.
Too much of anything is a bad thing, but not enough of something can be also.
That's all I am saying, and I will not apologize for that
Lastly, you can not take a thing out of context and then critique it. Whether it be a new critical approach, or historical/biographical, or moral/philosophical, it must be in context in order to understand its meaning. Sufficed to say, you missed the point. It is selfish and a little immature not to question, not to inquire about the deeper levels of something, to be satisfied with just what seems to be the norm (however erroneous it may be) because it allows for the proliferation of excuses and fanboy noise and allows people to be satisfied with a status quo and stagnate instead of innovate and find a way (IE. what ever way they need to do what ever they are trying to do)... I was not defending the OP's post as much as I was offering a justification of it and his right to post it without being called disrespectful and a persecutor of the creative which you have no right to say just because you have a thing for skate videos, but alas as I am being given my hemlock cocktail, I will abstain from that here from now on.
If you speak for the people, Jon Casey, then my voice will be steeped in silence. I have nothing more to say.
PS- Saw Blank, loved it! That exactly proves my point. Show us all more of this so we can see, so everyone can see. Wow, you were (apparently) trying to be myopic and ended up validating my argument. There is very little of "Blank," I want more of "Blank." Now I've got nothing more to say.
I'm not the OP. All I did was justify my personal opinion of the position he took. I am sorry that I did not use Victorian English to make the point, but it's just a forum. There is nothing wrong with wanting to see more. Experience more. I don't understand why I have to be satisfied with just "not clicking." I also shouldn't have to always dig deeper for more stimulating examples of work with this camera. If you are alluding to my being a tool for desiring more, fine, but don't distill my comments to a series of disjointed non sequiturs, the points were cogent; the reasoning was there and my point is sound.
Look, Jon Casey, watch what you want. Do what you want. Since you are such a fan of a certain type of video, then watch and be merry. However, there are other things in the world beside flowers, weddings (Vimeo has a video that gives an interesting take on the wedding thing- it's cool), trees, skateboards, and young adults looking morose as the focus racks between them and a candle or a train track or something.
Are you so naive that you would honestly believe that there are not people who cite a lack of serious projects created with a tool as a measure of said tool? There are people who intend to work miracles with this camera and they deserve to get as much information and support as possible. If I was a weaker person, and trolled through this site looking for a camera to buy, I wouldn't spend as much time on the HMC stuff as I would on others because the projects, the examples, the tangible results of the versatility or power or features of this camera in a myriad of shooting environments and situations is not there (to my personal satisfaction, and maybe to others as well)- bottom line. I am not attacking creativity, but I am saying that the abundance of these videos do not show the breadth of the tool's feature set, the strength or weakness of the codec, the interoperability (with the systems consisting of the tool and the operator and the editor) of the hardware/software, and yes, the creativity of the people who wield the tool in something other than demo videos. I just want to see more sometimes and I'm not sorry for that.
Also, "show me what you got" is an antiquated way of dealing with an opposing viewpoint. Honestly, trying to goad person who you believe a lesser intellect into such an inane and cliched confrontation is telling. When it is time for you to see, you will; when it's time for me to share, I will... not a moment sooner or later. Period.
Too much of anything is a bad thing, but not enough of something can be also.
That's all I am saying, and I will not apologize for that
Lastly, you can not take a thing out of context and then critique it. Whether it be a new critical approach, or historical/biographical, or moral/philosophical, it must be in context in order to understand its meaning. Sufficed to say, you missed the point. It is selfish and a little immature not to question, not to inquire about the deeper levels of something, to be satisfied with just what seems to be the norm (however erroneous it may be) because it allows for the proliferation of excuses and fanboy noise and allows people to be satisfied with a status quo and stagnate instead of innovate and find a way (IE. what ever way they need to do what ever they are trying to do)... I was not defending the OP's post as much as I was offering a justification of it and his right to post it without being called disrespectful and a persecutor of the creative which you have no right to say just because you have a thing for skate videos, but alas as I am being given my hemlock cocktail, I will abstain from that here from now on.
If you speak for the people, Jon Casey, then my voice will be steeped in silence. I have nothing more to say.
PS- Saw Blank, loved it! That exactly proves my point. Show us all more of this so we can see, so everyone can see. Wow, you were (apparently) trying to be myopic and ended up validating my argument. There is very little of "Blank," I want more of "Blank." Now I've got nothing more to say.
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