GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?
- Thread starter filmguy123
- Start date
Peter C.
Veteran
They maintain prices by replacing a camera with a newer model for more money. There might be exceptions such as they might not want to upgrade or discontinue a camera but want to add a new product line. For example adding FF to the lineup and adjusting M43 down.
Last edited:
NorBro
Major Contributor
That's the opposite of what's been happening; most new models besides a few highly anticipated exceptions have been lower.
Cinema cameras drops $1K, $2K over the years and some eventually have huge swings like C300 Mark II's PL which was introduced at $16,000 and is now $4,000.
C300 Mark III was introduced at $11,000.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Inflation has been leveling off (and was largely attributable to a few categories with supply chain issues, such as trucks) and the economy has been rebounding nicely, at least before delta. Recent employment reports have been stellar
But hey, don't let me spoil your apocalyptic jeremiad
Zim
Veteran
Maybe you don't buy anything or go anywhere. It's very possible we hit double digit inflation. Nothing apocalyptic about it. I'm old enough to remember the 70's and early 80's. Speaking of truck I bought a brand new Ford truck in 1981. The interest rates was 18%.
The amusing factor here is that the status quo works very well for the two leaders with their own sensors fabs - Sony and Canon - but horribly for the other third of the market that buys their sensors from Sony. One would think that, in order to avoid a complete annihilation, that other third - Nikon, Panasonic, Fuji, Olympus and whatever is left off Pentax - would, at leas, try to survive by going to other subcontractors. Yet, it looks they're quite content to go down with the sinking ship. They're like the peloton rabbits, signaling to the rest they're about to jump off the cliff first.
Peter C.
Veteran
Those cameras aren't representative of the general market. There's a higher markup on those type of cameras so they probably have a high initial offering early adopters.
Peter C.
Veteran
You seem to want to disagree with everything.
Release Price
A7II $1699
A7III $1999
For your homework go research the GH series release price history.
NorBro
Major Contributor
No offense, but only with you because I have never seen someone so wrong about so much in 12 years on forums.
Do you understand what in general means?
Overall, cameras have dropped tremendously than what they used to cost. This is common sense.
Yeah, 4-5 years later some cameras that are twice as good as their previous models might be 200-300 bucks more than the previous HD-only version, here and there.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Yes....everyone who lived through it expects a return of stagflation...
Looking at the chart, there has been a vast increase in the cost of fuel and used trucks. But it's leveling out.
There will always be inflation. The government targets 2% but is considering raising the target to 3% in light of how trying to tamp down inflation and ending up with lower than targeted inflation has depressed employment for the last 20 years.
That was one thing I appreciated about Trump. He told the inflation hawks to go to hell because he cared more about boosting employment.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I think Peter has a point here. But really it looks like a pricing convergence. $16k models now debut at $11k. $2500 models now debut at $4k.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Personally, I don't think so. I think new models with new technology are new models, with a few exceptions.
Which $2500 model is now $4K? a7SIII?
That would be a major exception with a list of about 20 different things I can think of that improved over the previous model.
Should have been a new model, but they know better than to change its name.
Seriously, it's such a different camera than the a7SII...if you want to go by just model numbers - sure; maybe you'll find more cameras that "increased" - but the technology difference is silly.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Model naming has as much to do with price tier as anything else, which is what we're discussing. Same with cars. Prices are relatively stable adjusted for inflation despite technological improvements.
I was thinking the 5dmk3 vs R5, but I was wrong about the pricing. Mk3 debuted at 3500. Must have been available for 2500 when I bought it later...
A7sii debuted at 3000 vs 3500 for the iii.
I think the high end bodies are going up faster? not sure.
So, not as big a change as I thought. Could be solely due to inflation. But definitely not decreasing prices as with their cine cameras
I was thinking the 5dmk3 vs R5, but I was wrong about the pricing. Mk3 debuted at 3500. Must have been available for 2500 when I bought it later...
A7sii debuted at 3000 vs 3500 for the iii.
I think the high end bodies are going up faster? not sure.
So, not as big a change as I thought. Could be solely due to inflation. But definitely not decreasing prices as with their cine cameras
NorBro
Major Contributor
The overall cost difference naturally hits the more expensive cameras harder because some of the asking prices were inconceivable.
$30K for a C700? Who's buying that?
Today, anything over $10K for a more modern camera is asking way too much for most outside of the 1% paying with their own money.
The stills cameras are more of a mess because of model naming, features, technology improvements, and other models with similar features (or better) but a different name.
So while one model may increase a few hundred dollars from model A1 to model A2, a new model B has 75% of the features of model A2 for 50% of the price.
Model C in a year or so will have some of those same features and most likely new ones (8K, more dynamic range, etc) for who knows what.
$30K for a C700? Who's buying that?
Today, anything over $10K for a more modern camera is asking way too much for most outside of the 1% paying with their own money.
The stills cameras are more of a mess because of model naming, features, technology improvements, and other models with similar features (or better) but a different name.
So while one model may increase a few hundred dollars from model A1 to model A2, a new model B has 75% of the features of model A2 for 50% of the price.
Model C in a year or so will have some of those same features and most likely new ones (8K, more dynamic range, etc) for who knows what.
NorBro
Major Contributor
This actually made me curious about the 5D Mark IV which I bought years ago, full price, and its predecessor, III; both launched at $3499 4 years apart. (2012/2016)
The IV is such a better camera for video (even with its faults) so in this case the video technology didn't make a difference.
It's all over the place.
The IV is such a better camera for video (even with its faults) so in this case the video technology didn't make a difference.
It's all over the place.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I think it's a little more complicated. Sometimes I feel like older more high end models have nicer IQ than newer lower end models with better specs. While the headline features may be the same or better, I wonder if the manufacturing, electronics quality, quality control is better in ways that aren't reported on a spec sheet.
And generally I think pricing is about what the market will bear. Arri RED venice are still charging a lot for the best they can make to a mostly-rental market.
The a7c etc are targeted at enthusiasts who are abandoning real cameras for smartphones. But as much as they have to offer, I dont think that many professional users will be swayed.
Most pro photographers i meet still have multiple 5d/a7r tier bodies and buy new lenses every year.
Perhaps we've seen the biggest shifts in the c300 tier. About a 1/3 decrease in price. Although you could say that sony is holding steady with fs5/fx6 (5600 -> 6000) and 1/3 increase with fs7/fx9 (8K -> 11K).
The c300 and FS7 are basically priced for doc/corporate owner/operators, I think. And that seems to me like a particularly budget-conscious and technologically-astute set of buyers who may be facing declining rates (although I'm not sure about that last part, but that seems to be what people who have been in the industry longer than me are saying). And these might be people who would try new brands if they understand that they're offering a superior product at an unbeatable price (as happened with RED), which probably puts downward price pressure on the tier due to blackmagic, z cam etc
So, I guess I feel like the economics of what consumers will pay is the greatest determinant of camera prices (and camera technology)
And generally I think pricing is about what the market will bear. Arri RED venice are still charging a lot for the best they can make to a mostly-rental market.
The a7c etc are targeted at enthusiasts who are abandoning real cameras for smartphones. But as much as they have to offer, I dont think that many professional users will be swayed.
Most pro photographers i meet still have multiple 5d/a7r tier bodies and buy new lenses every year.
Perhaps we've seen the biggest shifts in the c300 tier. About a 1/3 decrease in price. Although you could say that sony is holding steady with fs5/fx6 (5600 -> 6000) and 1/3 increase with fs7/fx9 (8K -> 11K).
The c300 and FS7 are basically priced for doc/corporate owner/operators, I think. And that seems to me like a particularly budget-conscious and technologically-astute set of buyers who may be facing declining rates (although I'm not sure about that last part, but that seems to be what people who have been in the industry longer than me are saying). And these might be people who would try new brands if they understand that they're offering a superior product at an unbeatable price (as happened with RED), which probably puts downward price pressure on the tier due to blackmagic, z cam etc
So, I guess I feel like the economics of what consumers will pay is the greatest determinant of camera prices (and camera technology)