GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?

NorBro said:
This actually made me curious about the 5D Mark IV which I bought years ago, full price, and its predecessor, III; both launched at $3499 4 years apart. (2012/2016)

The IV is such a better camera for video (even with its faults) so in this case the video technology didn't make a difference.

It's all over the place.
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I feel like the video capabilities have only ever had a marginal impact on pricing and marketing of photo cameras, except in the case of video-specific models (s1h, gh5s, a7s). In other words, photographers won't be buying an A7SIII for $3500. Or probably at any price
 
ahalpert said:
I feel like the video capabilities have only ever had a marginal impact on pricing and marketing of photo cameras, except in the case of video-specific models (s1h, gh5s, a7s). In other words, photographers won't be buying an A7SIII for $3500. Or probably at any price
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That's definitely true for pretty much all photographers, sometimes I forget about them.

But the rest of us who are interested in both, one video spec could make it or break it.
 
NorBro said:
People used to gladly pay $40,000 for SD cameras.
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Right, but as Run&Gun tells it, it's because you had a client telling you they could give you X amount of business over a year with that camera.

One of the reasons I eventually went sony was because my biggest client owns an FS7 and a7sii, so I knew my gear would slot in easily with their normal workflow. That was really driven home yesterday when my AC let the batteries die on the a7sii during an interview, and I just swapped in my A7SIII for the B camera (it had been on gimbal for b-roll). It won't look exactly the same, but I could match the profile and lens etc

If they basically promised me a certain number of rental days per year on an arri milf, why WOULDN'T I buy one?
 
NorBro said:
That's definitely true for pretty much all photographers, sometimes I forget about them.

But the rest of us who are interested in both, one video spec could make it or break it.
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Oh totally. If the a7iv has 10bit 4k60 then I'll probably get it. But it's gotta have exactly that

Aren't photographers a bigger market than videographers? Certainly for photo cameras they are
 
ahalpert said:
Right, but as Run&Gun tells it, it's because you had a client telling you they could give you X amount of business over a year with that camera.

One of the reasons I eventually went sony was because my biggest client owns an FS7 and a7sii, so I knew my gear would slot in easily with their normal workflow. That was really driven home yesterday when my AC let the batteries die on the a7sii during an interview, and I just swapped in my A7SIII for the B camera (it had been on gimbal for b-roll). It won't look exactly the same, but I could match the profile and lens etc

If they basically promised me a certain number of rental days per year on an arri milf, why WOULDN'T I buy one?
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Yeah, those were the good ole days for many (not me)...a handshake along with a $5K day rate.
 
EOS R is 5D MKIV in an RF mount and is $1,800. Both 5D MKIII and MKIV started at $3,500.

A 4K APS-C E-10 is $700, whereas A6300 was $1,000 in 2016 (and E-10 has more features and a better AF).
 
DLD said:
EOS R is 5D MKIV in an RF mount and is $1,800. Both 5D MKIII and MKIV started at $3,500.

A 4K APS-C E-10 is $700, whereas A6300 was $1,000 in 2016 (and E-10 has more features and a better AF).
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R was 2300 at launch. But I agree that it looks similar to 5dmkiv other than having only one card slot

E-10 whatever
 
That original price didn't last long, maybe 6 months or so. I bought that one too.

[Where's the facepalm emoji.]
 
I don't even think it makes sense to compare subsequent models on features. It's more like computers. Nobody is shocked that the latest $1K macbook or iphone is 10x faster than a model from 8 years ago but the same price (and I feel like the entry-level laptop price and the flagship smartphone price roughly coincide because its what consumers are willing to pay for it)
 
Cameras are different because they could have been much better a long time ago, so they justify the cost-feature analysis.
 
FWIW, the product repositioning takes place too. Forty years ago, Honda Civic was a subcompact 4-seater but really comfortable for two (+ my mom because she's 4'11"). My mid-80's edition had a 65 HP engine and I really had a hard time climbing up Encino Hills in third gear. The 2015-2021 Civics are a foot longer, comfortable for four and way more powerful, with a turbocharged version having 174 HP and no longer being an entry level car. Which is now Fit or Insight. And Civic R is in a class of its own.

But other cars travel in the opposite direction. The 1989/90 Nissan 300Z Twin Turbo was $33,000 when an average car price was $15,500. The 2022 Z that was just announced is expected to be around $40,000, which is right around an average in the US. (plus, its 3L twin turbo is 400 HP, making a 382 HP $55,000 Supra appear a tad too highly priced and a 3L Porsche Boxster/Cayman at $80,000-$110,000 appear like ... a Porsche)
 
Sony Alpha Rumors thinks that A7IV will be pushed into October. They think it's chip shortage related (I don't).

IMO, A7IV can be that 900 lb gorilla in the middle of the pitch.

But might not be.
 
What's expected of the IV?

I haven't followed any rumors but this is a lowly FF model in the family so wouldn't expect much - although it also could actually be the first non a7SIII (and A1) to have 4K/30p 10-bit and/or 4K/60p 8-bit. (Not sure they'd give it 10-bit 4K/60p, yet.)
 
I see the A7IV as a pivotal camera for the hybrid space. Like the R-series from Canon actually being full of features, the A7IV kind of has to live up to the specs on the video side or it will be seen as a let down. Do these camera companies have any time left to trickle out features? The IPhone is going to have ProRes and we are wondering if a $2,500 camera can record in 10bit? Its 2021. Imho, Sony will look stupid if they keep the A7IV back in 2013 with its video specs. Nothing is stopping the camera outside of corporate decisions. Plus, it will not fit in the line if it does not sort of equal the base recording level of the A7sIII.
 
DLD said:
FWIW, the product repositioning takes place too. Forty years ago, Honda Civic was a subcompact 4-seater but really comfortable for two (+ my mom because she's 4'11"). My mid-80's edition had a 65 HP engine and I really had a hard time climbing up Encino Hills in third gear. The 2015-2021 Civics are a foot longer, comfortable for four and way more powerful, with a turbocharged version having 174 HP and no longer being an entry level car. Which is now Fit or Insight. And Civic R is in a class of its own.

But other cars travel in the opposite direction. The 1989/90 Nissan 300Z Twin Turbo was $33,000 when an average car price was $15,500. The 2022 Z that was just announced is expected to be around $40,000, which is right around an average in the US. (plus, its 3L twin turbo is 400 HP, making a 382 HP $55,000 Supra appear a tad too highly priced and a 3L Porsche Boxster/Cayman at $80,000-$110,000 appear like ... a Porsche)
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Right but at least we can identify that the civic is no longer the entry level vehicle.

The FS7 was like half the cost of the C300mk2. So either we consider it to be in a different tier or a loss leader. But now the FX9 and C300mk3 are about the same price, and C500mk2 takes the $16k spot

But it seems like a lot of C300mk2 users have become C300mk3 users instead of c500mk2. I'm not sure which is more popular for FS7 users, the FX6 or the FX9. On the forum, it seems like the FX6. In real life, it seems like the FX9. But dvxusers might be more discerning than people in real life
 
Bassman2003 said:
I see the A7IV as a pivotal camera for the hybrid space. Like the R-series from Canon actually being full of features, the A7IV kind of has to live up to the specs on the video side or it will be seen as a let down. Do these camera companies have any time left to trickle out features? The IPhone is going to have ProRes and we are wondering if a $2,500 camera can record in 10bit? Its 2021. Imho, Sony will look stupid if they keep the A7IV back in 2013 with its video specs. Nothing is stopping the camera outside of corporate decisions. Plus, it will not fit in the line if it does not sort of equal the base recording level of the A7sIII.
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Wasn't the a7iii already pivotal for the hybrid space? It was THE camera for hybrid shooters who didn't care about 10-bit.

ProRes on the iphone seems immaterial to me personally. A lot of my clients are data-conscious, so I wouldn't be shooting in ProRes anyway. And it's not like I can functionally replace my current gear with an iPhone, even if it didn't make me look like an amateur to my clients.

(I've come to feel that client perceptions on-set are at least as important as what you shoot. People often seem to judge my work by what I do and how I do it on set before they've seen my footage. And I hear variations on that theme from people. I remember a DP saying he always has g&e build and strike his biggest lights at the start of his first shoot day on a project so he can essentially intimidate or impress the director. (He was a head case, but a very successful one.) Or there's what Rob Norton said about interviewees walking into a large, complex lighting and taking it seriously.)

So, to a certain extent I think that the a7iv is insulated from the iPhone, no matter how embarrassing it would be to continue 8-bit recording.
 
DLD said:
Sony Alpha Rumors thinks that A7IV will be pushed into October. They think it's chip shortage related (I don't).

IMO, A7IV can be that 900 lb gorilla in the middle of the pitch.

But might not be.
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Why do you think? Because they won't cripple it, so it will diminish demand for other cameras and cause price cuts? In which case they want to milk that earning period a little longer? They could even discount other cameras under the banner of black Friday before making them permanent next year
 
ahalpert said:
A lot of my clients are data-conscious, so I wouldn't be shooting in ProRes anyway.
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Is this a valid thought? You can shoot in various flavors of ProRes that can match your 150-200mbps, 400mbps file sizes that you may be using now with the same or better quality.
 
Well I did it. Just ordered a Canon R6. My journey to the dark side of the force is complete. Well I guess I should say the light side...

The M6 mk2 was my gateway drug and I just couldn't shake the urge.

In the end the DPAF won me over along with FF 4k 60p which the S5 is missing and a much better lens selection. Rf mount can adapt EF lenses very well and that kind of won me over I the end. We have said it a few times now in here but its the lenses that absolutely kill the Panasonic S series of cameras. Good RF glass is just as much but Canon has options all the way down to older generation EF lenses. sure far from great but its an option. I'm glad I can keep using my Tamron 70-200 f2.8 G2. If it works as well las I hope I can now get the 24-70 which is about $1,600 less than similar L mount or RF lenses.

Canon also has a very nice super option a 24-240. Slow and optically gets a bit funky on the wide end but I think that will be a great replacement for the workhorse Panasonic 14-140 I used since the GH1. Has no focus breathing and combined with DPAF and the OS plus IBIS it should be a much more solid video lens compared to what I could ever get out of the GH4 and 14-140 lens. Its mostly the corners that greatly suffer on the 24-240 but when shooting video that's not an issue at all.

The R6 is not perfect. Not sure we will ever get that but what it does compromise I can deal with.

To be honest I also got tired of lens converting. FF lenses on m43 were always going to be softer even with a Speedbooster. FF lenses on APS-C were always going to perform not as well. m43 zooms were always going to be slow and/or limited. Olympus has been making some great options but honestly those things cost more than the Tamron f2.8 zooms and sometimes not much smaller. I'm becoming a fan of using lenses designed for the sensor size. I will greatly miss the extra reach potential of APS-C and m43 but I will cross that bridge when I get there. I will eventually get get a 70-300 EF lens or maybe a 100-400 and be done with it. Nice thing about FF is the slower speeds do not hurt as much as they did on m43. f5.6 on FF is like f2.8 on m43 so at the very least a slow variable EF zoom lens will be as good as f2.8 native m43 zoom lenses. I know I will likely get a 300mm f2.8 FF lens but I have to be ok with that and know that f5.6 actually isn't all that bad at all on a camera like the R6. Plus at least for video I still have the option to crop for some extra reach at the expensive of losing oversampled video. Might be worth it vs a lower quality 300mm lens. We will see. Like I said I will cross that bridge when I get there. 140mm on m43 was always my furthest reach anyway. Even with the 70-200 I used a Speedbooster so it essentially the same reach as it was on the Canon M6. A good 70-300 should be all I need then.

Anyway I'm not gone. I'm still la fan of Panasonic and m43 and look forward to seeing what they can do. Maybe I will be back but considering the price of the GH6 is going to be the same $2,500 as the R6 I made the decision to finally move up to FF. Its really kind of funny since I absolutely could not stand the look of Canon DSLR video for many years. The R6 and R5 are the first time I finally feel Canon got it right. Sucks they cannot figure out how to get that right without overheating but whatever. I have a Ninja V to get around that if I must.
 
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