C200: Honest review from Newsshooter - casts a less than perfect light on the EVA-1

All those cams between 7K and 10K may appeal to a similar group of owner/operators, but the decision for each camera will just be personal preference.
No way someone in need of internal RAW and best-possible fact racking AF will jump for an EVA!.
No way someone in need for an internal 10bit or higher codec and the lightest camera possible will jump for a C200.
For any thing besides feature films an TVCs camera technology is at a point where you can use anything you want and get a professional looking product, if you know what you're doing.
 
To be honest if your content is truly amazing or hard to get, no one gives a crap what it is shot on.
However, it's when shooting the schlock that every station starts getting fussy about codecs.
Ironic, isn't it ?
 
Spartacus said:
... No way someone in need of internal RAW and best-possible fact racking AF will jump for an EVA!. No way someone in need for an internal 10bit or higher codec and the lightest camera possible will jump for a C200..
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Is that a coincident? No.

Is it cleverly done? Yes.

Is this screwing the consumer? H. E. Double hockey sticks, yes.
 
NorBro said:
lol, you take the Keiretsu too seriously...
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+1!

I wouldn't disagree if someone said that Canon was deliberately protecting the C300 Mark II by not supporting XFAVC in the C200. It's certainly possible but I also think it's possible that Canon is pushing people to use their new raw format because they think it's a competitive advantage. Other than Canon employees who actually knows?

But suggesting that Canon and Panasonic are colluding to separate the market really seems to be a stretch. The C200 and EVA1 are still way, way more similar than they are different and most people would be fine using either. The places where they are different don't prove collusion. For example, Canon has more than 30 years of autofocus experience and they've got a bunch of cameras that have dual pixel autofocus. It makes sense that the C200 would have great autofocus. Panasonic doesn't have that history and don't already have a camera with really strong autofocus (the GH5 is debatable and it was only recently improved; maybe we'll see the same improvement come to the EVA1).

I wouldn't say it's impossible that Canon and Panasonic are colluding but it seems that there are simpler explanations for why that cameras are different (while still be 90% the same).
 
NorBro said:
lol, you take the Keiretsu too seriously...
Click to expand...

I figure the cartel costs a consumer about a two year delay in the camera that should be out on the store shelves rather than the camera that is.

Plus, about 100% on the price.

fhammond said:
+1! -- I wouldn't say it's impossible that Canon and Panasonic are colluding but it seems that there are simpler explanations for why that cameras are different (while still be 90% the same).
Click to expand...

They're all colluding - Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony, etc. Samsung wasn't in because it has an own cartel but in a different country and its 2014 NX1 beat all others on specs for two years running. Xiaomi, being Chinese, isn't colluding with the Japanese either and offering a 4K MFT camera with a kit lens for $300 while Panasonic G7 is $800 with a similar lens. Guess who pays the $500 difference. You.
 
I'm sure there are some understandings, but I don't think it's this big conspiracy theory it's sometimes made out to be.

They are just cameras. People aren't spending the kind of money they once did.

And most of them are using their phones anyway, ha.
 
Yeah, the simple answers are usually the right ones. Aircraft contrails are ice, not chemicals; it was cheaper and easier to land on the moon than fake it; and if multiple companies independently develop and build cinema cameras, we'll end up with a bunch of products at roughly the same price and with similar features. Sometimes a company gets a big jump on another but its rare and doesn't last long.











(And when one company gets a big jump on another, it's because they used technology from a cyborg that was sent back in time to kill the leader of a future rebellion against super intelligent robots. But that's just a secret between you and me, ok?)
 
Frankly speaking no one had expected internal raw in C200. Without the internal raw it is another me too camera. Not sure how we can call it caterlisation.

I would have set my perday rate at 10000 US dollars/day. However, others operating at a similar level charge far lower. So I can't charge more and have to charge what the market will bear. Is that cartelisation? :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

While we keep on debating how the RAWlite is terrible, some newbie - who hasn't been brainwashed about how terrible the internal raw is - will come and blow us away with his/her work shot in rawlite.
 
indiawilds said:
While we keep on debating how the RAWlite is terrible, some newbie - who hasn't been brainwashed about how terrible the internal raw is - will come and blow us away with his/her work shot in rawlite.
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I don't think anybody is arguing that RAWlite is terrible, but it comes with a few C200 hardware limitations that you have to live with. Personally I wish Canon had scrapped the C200 SD card slots completely and just given us two CFast card slots that would allow for relay-recording and simultaneous dual card recording, but dual CFast slots is a C300 Mk2 feature so it's a no go. ( I would expect a C400 camera to incorporate RAWlite along with two CFast slots )
 
If I was appreciated here, I would post this:

"Down-voting is a great concept, as long as it is transparent and you stand with your name beside your down-vote.
Otherwise, it's just a tool in hands of 'forum engineers': you get corruption in a system.

I hate fragmentation and segmentation on all levels and believe in equal opportunities. Privileged users have all the insights, down-votes included.

Self-sustained systems care about entropy and care about anomalies through feedback.
That's the reason why we have to give more chance to the minority to hear them and understand their perspective, not to down-vote them.

Sun, water nor the earth would build the strongest tree, the wind will. (It's probably grammatically incorrect, but you get where I'm aiming at?)

Regarding sensor wars, laws of physics applies to all and it isn't only optics and electronics.
Today (long before F35) we witness to the brain wars. We see with brain, eyes 'only' pick up the light. (Don't want to get glass involved.)

This raises the famous 'mojo' factor, is your camera more 'cinematic'? You know, something you just can point the finger on?
(Higher dynamic range, global sensor scanning, lower highlights and raised shadows saturation, logarithmic exposure division, skin tone manipulations, nice noise generator or de-noiser etc.)

All that being said, I don't want to fight profit war for companies. They don't want to have the best product, they just want to keep income steady and raise the profit.
I understand that there wouldn't be any products without the profit goal, but they treat their customers like sheep - wait for new fleece to grow and cut it, no matter if winter is coming.
And they practice that in a silent agreement: they don't care who, how and why cuts your fleece as long as they have their own reserved cutting area. They wouldn't go against each other.

I respect Mitch and I think that he could easily represent any country as a diplomat, but I also understand Dave and the situation when someone was let down with unfulfilled promises.
Specifically talking about recent launch of two, at the first glance, competing cameras. It's leaves a bitter taste in the mouth when product doesn't live up to the marketing promised expectations.

But you have to understand that it's only a tool for the job, not some miracle that will erase all the bad practices in filmmaking, change your life, make you better person etc.
And being early adopter is always a gamble, would you pick up the cream as being the first or be disappointed with the fact the you got sour milk? (Enough with farmers analogies.)

This days people form they opinions based on 'common knowledge of the internet', not they own experience and tests.
I understand that if you aren't in position to do it yourself, you reach for help.

Help from someone who make a comparison weighted to your needs and have no hidden or ulterior motive to present you with biased solution.

And who are those specialists in production line who have the technical knowledge to give you honest answer?
Whose job is to bridge the gap between production and post-production?
Who supports the DP in implementing the desired image character utilizing appropriate technical options?
Etc...

Is that a DIT?
Digital Imaging Technician?
Aka Digital Film Technician, Camera Consultant, Digital Camera Consultant, Camera Supervisor, Digital Camera Supervisor, Digital Imaging Supervisor?"

But I'm not appreciated here, so I won't post it.

PS. Please, don't forget to down-vote!

PPS. Seriously, down-vote now! You don't want some naive user to give me back the right to vote again.
You know, voting... ...when you don't get 'You must have a post rating of at least 0 to rate other posts.' message when trying to vote.
 
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dave12781 said:
Neat that Mitch is on here in a way, but also a little disturbing. He is marketing this product to an industry. This is a users group.
Click to expand...

What's disturbing about it? I've been on this forum for more than a decade and many others for longer than that. I was one of the original members of CML and I've been a lot of other places as well, and continue to be as time allows. I commented on your post when I logged onto this forum, which is frankly whenever I happen to have time to do so. It's a Sunday evening now. I was a working DP for more than two decades, with two dozen features, a couple of series and piles of docs, industrials, commercials, music videos, etc. to my name. I participated in these forums then and I continue to now, often posting about things that have nothing to do with me representing the products of my current employer. But with that said, I am here in my Panasonic capacity to provide clear and accurate information about the product to end users. Sorry, not sorry that you have a problem with that.

I see that under your user name -- and I note that it is a user name as opposed to mine, which is in fact my proper given name so that people know exactly who I am -- I see that you have one red box. I believe that this indicates that there are some people who have given negative reviews to your posts. I think it's likely that this is a reaction to your posts and threads of the past few weeks that appear at odds with other members of this forum. Now please look under my name on this post, and notice the eight yellow boxes underneath. I believe these signify that people like my posts, in fact I'm pretty sure that I'm the only member of this forum with eight yellow boxes under his or her name. I think Barry Green is just behind me in this count.

I really don't enjoy tooting my own horn, but I also feel that my contributions over the years have earned a certain level of respect. I'm not a shill or a plant or any other term with a negative connotation. You posted plenty of negative comments and for the most part I did not respond, as you are entitled to your opinion. But please recognize that when a whole bunch of people start telling you that you have crossed a line, well, maybe you should look to see if you've crossed it.
 
dave12781 said:
I’m completely comfortable. Just seems odd that if someone’s opinion doesn’t fall in line with Panasonic HQ there is a targeted approach to silence them, and it can be completely anonymous...
Click to expand...

There is no Panasonic conspiracy here. In fact I'm the Paasonic guy and it's taken me awhile to even get around to reading this post because I've been busy with the release of the camera.
 
laverdir said:
If I was appreciated here, I would post this:

"Down-voting is a great concept, as long as it is transparent and you stand with your name beside your down-vote.
Otherwise, it's just a tool in hands of 'forum engineers': you get corruption in a system.

I hate fragmentation and segmentation on all levels and believe in equal opportunities. Privileged users have all the insights, down-votes included.

Self-sustained systems care about entropy and care about anomalies through feedback.
That's the reason why we have to give more chance to the minority to hear them and understand their perspective, not to down-vote them.

Sun, water nor the earth would build the strongest tree, the wind will. (It's probably grammatically incorrect, but you get where I'm aiming at?)

Regarding sensor wars, laws of physics applies to all and it isn't only optics and electronics.
Today (long before F35) we witness to the brain wars. We see with brain, eyes 'only' pick up the light. (Don't want to get glass involved.)

This raises the famous 'mojo' factor, is your camera more 'cinematic'? You know, something you just can point the finger on?
(Higher dynamic range, global sensor scanning, lower highlights and raised shadows saturation, logarithmic exposure division, skin tone manipulations, nice noise generator or de-noiser etc.)

All that being said, I don't want to fight profit war for companies. They don't want to have the best product, they just want to keep income steady and raise the profit.
I understand that there wouldn't be any products without the profit goal, but they treat their customers like sheep - wait for new fleece to grow and cut it, no matter if winter is coming.
And they practice that in a silent agreement: they don't care who, how and why cuts your fleece as long as they have their own reserved cutting area. They wouldn't go against each other.

I respect Mitch and I think that he could easily represent any country as a diplomat, but I also understand Dave and the situation when someone was let down with unfulfilled promises.
Specifically talking about recent launch of two, at the first glance, competing cameras. It's leaves a bitter taste in the mouth when product doesn't live up to the marketing promised expectations.

But you have to understand that it's only a tool for the job, not some miracle that will erase all the bad practices in filmmaking, change your life, make you better person etc.
And being early adopter is always a gamble, would you pick up the cream as being the first or be disappointed with the fact the you got sour milk? (Enough with farmers analogies.)

This days people form they opinions based on 'common knowledge of the internet', not they own experience and tests.
I understand that if you aren't in position to do it yourself, you reach for help.

Help from someone who make a comparison weighted to your needs and have no hidden or ulterior motive to present you with biased solution.

And who are those specialists in production line who have the technical knowledge to give you honest answer?
Whose job is to bridge the gap between production and post-production?
Who supports the DP in implementing the desired image character utilizing appropriate technical options?
Etc...

Is that a DIT?
Digital Imaging Technician?
Aka Digital Film Technician, Camera Consultant, Digital Camera Consultant, Camera Supervisor, Digital Camera Supervisor, Digital Imaging Supervisor?"

But I'm not appreciated here, so I won't post it.

PS. Please, don't forget to down-vote!

PPS. Seriously, down-vote now! You don't want some naive user to give me back the right to vote again.
You know, voting... ...when you don't get 'You must have a post rating of at least 0 to rate other posts.' message when trying to vote.
Click to expand...
I really have no idea what you're on about. You make a few good points in here which I can appreciate, but then you go off in other directions that have me scratching my head. Really don't know how to respond.
 
Laverdir, I noticed you joined the forum 5 years ago but made 14% of your posts in just the last 48 hours with most of them having similar head scratching content. Now some people are picking on you, and you are posting more peculiar posts. If you need some help or if something is wrong, please reach out to someone. Maybe you are having a goof or maybe your on a bender. But please, if you are having some event, please seek help. If not, tell me to go jump. Cheers.
 
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