GH2 official discussion thread

itimjim said:
Title of the article is "First Look"
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Yawwwwnnn - just *how* many 'first looks' are we going to be subjected to? When LL trumpeted their 'review', I don't recall any mention of (another) 'first look' For pities sake! , he had the opportunity to give some useful info - such the the implementation of HDMI during recording, etc) instead of just the same old stuff that's been regurgitated a zillion times since Photokina.



itimjim said:
The chap writing is quite well respected, and his opinion sure counts for more than yours, and indeed mine.
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Oh, yeah - right.

Here's a small challenge while you're waiting for a useful GH2 review - find *any* Luminous Landscape' review that *seriously* criticises *any* camera.......

'Fawning', 'Obsequious', 'bread buttered', and 'back pocket', are just some of the terms that spring to mind after wading through their smugly self-satisfied syrup.


itimjim said:
Should have gone to Specsavers.
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Nah - should've gone to sleep instead of reading LL's rubbish.
 
Framerate said:
Oh, yeah - right.

Here's a small challenge while you're waiting for a useful GH2 review - find *any* Luminous Landscape' review that *seriously* criticises *any* camera.......

'Fawning', 'Obsequious', 'bread buttered', and 'back pocket', are just some of the terms that spring to mind after wading through their smugly self-satisfied syrup.


Nah - should've gone to sleep instead of reading LL's rubbish.
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Try this:

What's Not To Like?
NO EFV
I think that Sony has missed the boat by not making an electronic viewfinder available at launch. I have little doubt that one is in the works, but for many photographers the lack of an EVF will not sit well. One can argue that the camera's intended audience, the digicam user stepping up, is mostly used to using just an LCD, but I beg to differ.

Olympus rushed to redesign their E-P1 to take an accessory EVF when it was seen that people wanted this feature, and also as evidenced by Panasonic with their GF1, this is a desirable feature.

If Sony doesn't come out with an EVF before too long it's my take that the more serious photographers will find this to be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to accepting the NEX-5.

Slow Turn On / Decent Autofocus
The NEX-5 is an extremely fast camera in almost every aspect of its handling, except turn on. It takes approximately 2 seconds from turn on till the first shot is possible, which is inordinately slow. What's that about?

The camera uses contrast detection autofocus, which while slower than the phase detection system used in DSLRs, is adequate for the needs of the camera's intended user. While I haven't done critical side-by-side comparisons with the Panasonic GH and GF series my sense is that the Sony is a bit slower, though not dramatically so.

No Mode Dial
I am not crazy about the NEX-5's user interface design and I can't say that I care for the fact that the camera does not have a mode dial. The center button on the scroll wheel becomes a mode selector in most situations, with the LCD showing the choices available, but this means that one can't tell what mode the camera is in when it's turned off. When combined with the NEX-5's slow turn-on taking a shot in a rapidly developing moment with the camera starting in the OFF position is an exercise in frustration.

Too Many Presses
Each of the camera's six main menus are one long scrolling list. This means that some important functions and selections are a long way down from the top. For example, the FORMAT menu command under Setup is 28 clicks down from the top, and the camera does not remember where on the list of items you were the last time you were there.

To format a card one must go to Setup and then click the down button 28 times to find it. There are no shortcuts or My Memory settings available. This is a serious design error in my view, and frankly, a pain in the ass. And yes, you can scroll instead of click, but it's still a long way down.

In fact, the entire menu system, while attractive to the newcomer to cameras, with lots of pretty illustrations and colours, does nothing but get in the way of the more experienced used. It's manageable, but frankly accessing such commonly used controls as ISO should not require navigating menus. Sony's minimalist approach to buttons on the NEX-5 has gone much too far for my taste.

In fact, after several more days of use as this was being written I have to say that I find the NEX-5's menu system to be more than a bit of a dog's breakfast. For example, setting Panorama mode is found under the Shoot Mode menu, setting the direction for shooting panoramas is found under the Camera menu, and whether to shoot panoramas in the Normal or Wide mode is found under the Image Size menu. Come on Sony...you can do better than this.

There are other issues. For example, if you have the live histogram displayed on screen, and you then activate exposure compensation, the histogram disappears until you've finished adjusting exposure. Duhh! That's exactly when I want to see the histogram, Sony – while I'm adjusting exposure!

Another annoyance is that while the camera sometimes remembers the last major menu category selected, it never remembers the menu selection made. So if you want to experiment with a setting, getting back to the item that you require means a lot of repetative button presses.

One final thought on the menu system, at least for the more experienced user. There is no quick access to the ISO setting. It is only accessible via menus – Menu / Brightness Color / ISO. The bottom soft button meanwhile is normally labeled Shoot -Tips and is of little use to the experienced user. How about allowing it to be programmed using a custom function so that it can become a direct ISO button or something else useful of the user's choice?

The bottom line on the user interface is that Sony appears to have put a lot of design effort into making the user interface appear pretty, and also simple for the beginner, but in doing so it has crippled usability for the more serious photographer. I feel that with a bit more effort both constituencies might have been better served.

This generation of NEX cameras feel like they were designed primarily by engineers, without enough feedback and field testing by actual photographers. Slick design isn't enough. Ultimately usability trumps design, and when a company like Apple does it they show how the two can not only work hand-in-hand, but can have the parts make a better whole.

No Blinkies / No Peaking
There does not appear to be any highlight overexposure warning. I may be wrong, because at the time of this review, though the camera tested is described as a production review sample, there is no user manual. But if indeed there isn't such a feature, it's a real oversight.

And while the camera can magnify the image 7X when manually focusing, there is no peaking (a shimmering or colour on the in-focus areas) something that makes LCD or EVF focusing that much more accurate). Sony has this on the video cameras – why not on the NEX-5?

Gotchas
There are several gotchas. Here's just one annoyance that I found hugely frustrating.

There is an auto-ISO capability. Fine; though it's limited to ISO 1600 at the high end while the camera can go to ISO 12800. But when you switch to Manual shooting mode the camera disables Auto-ISO and defaults to ISO 200. OK. Now I set it to what I want, say ISO 800. Later though, when I switch back to another shooting mode, such as Program, the camera doesn't return to Auto-ISO the way it was before, but sticks to the ISO which I set set in Manual mode. Frustrating.

Here's another. You find yourself in a situation where you want to use the camera's remarkable HDR capability (see below). You press Menu / Brightness - Color / scroll five clicks to DRO - Auto HDR, press Select, scroll several clicks (it's a circle) to Auto HDR, press the Option button, scroll the wheel to select the number of stops of compensation needed, and then press Select. Whew.

Got that? OK. Now, when you want to turn HDR off you have to go through most of that again. Oh yes, and if you have the camera set to raw, or raw + JPG, the HDR menu selection will tell you that the function is not available, but won't even hint as to why it isn't.

And if you have the screen display mode set to minimal information you will have no idea of what mode the camera is in (HDR on or off), and if it doesn't do what you expect, you won't know why. And this is claimed to be a camera designed for the newcomer!

May I politely suggest that Sony have their NEX user interface designers be assigned window seats and that the company hire some new ones as quickly as possible?
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http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony-nex5.shtml
 
Plus LL (p)reviewed primarily the GH2 as a still camera, not as a video camera. Video features like HDMI out are not the focus of their review.
 
I keep on seeing judder on every one of these samples.

I'm not sure if it's motion artifacts due to compression -- but I know it's not my computer or Internet connection.

I have found the 5D to also have judder in 24p -- although not all the time. I'm hoping this isn't the case with this camera -- as it's definitely a deal-breaker. Especially since 24p is the only profile that was granted a decent bit rate.

As I referenced previously, it's too bad 1080p/29.97 isn't available -- as it's a nice progressive frame rate that helps with motion issues -- and it allows for a progressive post production workflow with flawless 1080i/60 deliverables.

Of course, I mean no disrespect to our "overlooked" 25p friends -- just wish the camera had more frame rate profiles in general.
 
roei z said:
hard to judge from that sample...
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Why? I for one can assess quite a few things:
- very sharp pictures
- almost no aliasing and moire artifacts
- dynamic range is Ok
- burst mode works fine
- colors are good
...

And that in combination with other clips I´ve seen so far (no mud and lowlight streaks) makes me pretty confident about this new toy. But, you´re right insofar that we need much more infos and raw footage for a final verdict...
 
blafarm said:
I keep on seeing judder on every one of these samples.
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Judder? Hmm I'm not seeing any at all, and I'm usually pretty sensitive to it. No pan shots in that last clip to really highlight it but it should be fairly easy to see that second to last scene with the barge.
 
Uwe Lansing said:
Why? I for one can assess quite a few things:
- very sharp pictures
- almost no aliasing and moire artifacts
- dynamic range is Ok
- burst mode works fine
- colors are good
...

And that in combination with other clips I´ve seen so far (no mud and lowlight streaks) makes me pretty confident about this new toy. But, you´re right insofar that we need much more infos and raw footage for a final verdict...
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The dynamic range is a bit difficult to judge in such a dull lighting, I think as the contrast is so low. Some sunlit scene would be much more revealing for me.
 
Danielvilliers said:
The dynamic range is a bit difficult to judge in such a dull lighting, I think as the contrast is so low. Some sunlit scene would be much more revealing for me.
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Sure, you´re right. I came to that conclusion when I saw the shot at 00:13. The ground and the trees in the foreground do still show some details in the shadow area against the cloudy sky. And I deliberately wrote "dynamic range is Ok". To be honest, I don´t expect a "good" or even a "very good" dynamic range - that would be a surprise to me. But it isn´t the most important criterion for me personally...
 
Picturequest said:
"Since the only Progressive mode that the AVCHD standard formally recognizes is 24P, 1920X1080 is shot progressively but recorded as interlaced."
what does that mean?
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blafarm said:
Probably means progressive segmented frame (psf).
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Normally, I would interpret that statement the same way. However, MR later on expands ("The only bad news (if you live in a PAL country) is that the camera does not shoot 25P"), which means GH2 behaves like a traditional (outdated) interlaced camera in 1080 mode at 50i and 60i, which many on this forum have been expressing concern about since the first samples of 1080i footage have been made available. FWIW, he is testing the camera with pre-release firmware, so hopefully that will change (an option added for Cinematic Mode to output 25p instead of 24p. This could be fairly easily achieved by sampling every other frame from 50p stream and recording in 50i wrapper (25PsF) so as not to violate the Holy Scripture [AVCHD Spec]).
 
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Framerate said:
Yawwwwnnn - just *how* many 'first looks' are we going to be subjected to? When LL trumpeted their 'review', I don't recall any mention of (another) 'first look' For pities sake! , he had the opportunity to give some useful info - such the the implementation of HDMI during recording, etc) instead of just the same old stuff that's been regurgitated a zillion times since Photokina.
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The difference between this first look and those posted prior is in who the author is. Michael Reichmann is an accomplished professional photographer. He is also an experienced equipment reviewer. Personally, I found his to be the best review posted yet, even though it may not have been particularly rich in details "we did not know yet".
 
Speaking of HDMI out, here's a guy in Japan discussing his observations, with photos to illustrate:
http://muujp.cocolog-nifty.com/tokyoshashi/2010/11/gh2hdmi-125b.html#more

He's using a SmallHD DP6 (1280x800). Essentially, he says re. HDMI out:
– Both external & built-in monitors display simultaneously.
– The information overlays scale to adapt to the external monitor's resolution.
– HDMI out only works when the camera is set to 1080. It does not work when the camera is set to 720P.
– MF Assist (magnification) does not work with HDMI out.
– EX Teleconverter feature does not work with HDMI out.
– HDMI connector interferes with the articulated LCD, preventing it from tilting.
– He can still use the touchscreen while using HDMI out.
– Recording information can appear on the external monitor, but blocks the view.
– When he hits record, all overlays disappear, but he's unsure about dropped frames, etc. (Also keep in mind that the DP6 is only 1280x800.)
– When he chooses monochrome mode, the HDMI output becomes monochrome as well.
– He noticed the colour difference between the two screens, but hadn't bothered yet to see if he can make adjustments to get them to match.

Also, I found this footage demonstrating the touchscreen AF speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSfi-CgTRak
 
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I haven't read through the entire thread so I'm sorry if this has already been answered, but is there any word yet on whether the GH2 has any FPN or Banding? That's the only thing I do not like about my GH1 and would definitely upgrade if those two problems are fixed.
 
Dazza said:
Judder? Hmm I'm not seeing any at all, and I'm usually pretty sensitive to it. No pan shots in that last clip to really highlight it but it should be fairly easy to see that second to last scene with the barge.
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Look carefully at every wide shot of the water -- and the barge shot for that matter -- and you will see a subtle and gentle temporal motion-stutter or pulsing that looks to me like judder. I'm not sure if the GH2 is recording 24p as progressive segmented frame -- but if it is -- it may be a contributing factor -- in the way that "downstream" editing and compression applications are "handling" it.
 
blafarm said:
Look carefully at every wide shot of the water -- and the barge shot for that matter -- and you will see a subtle and gentle temporal motion-stutter or pulsing that looks to me like judder. I'm not sure if the GH2 is recording 24p as progressive segmented frame -- but if it is -- it may be a contributing factor -- in the way that "downstream" editing and compression applications are "handling" it.
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The author mentioned shooting in Aperture priority mode, which I find a big "no-no" for 24fps footage (very sensitive to any deviation from 180 degree shutter rule), as camera will select whatever frame rate it thinks is best.
 
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