GH1 sensor variation/burn-in efficacy proof

Cavemandude said:
Well, the whole point is to shoot a video or pic to show banding not to avoid it and that is done by underexposing which is easiest to see on flat surfaces like walls or even faces when zoomed in not complex textured images like your latest outdoor video.

Randy
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Er, there *is* a fence in that video - quite a large one. Can you not see it?

I was asked to post a vid of various f/stops under a street light.

That's what I did.

Like I said, you're obviously being deliberately provocative - 'too bright', too contrasty', 'too complex' - too *everything*, apparently, because you're not seeing the banding that seems to fascinate you so much.

My GH1 does not show vertical banding - even under ridiculous conditions. End of.
 
Svart said:
That's good. Is it available for download? If so, I'll download it tonight and put it on my big monitor and peep those pixels.

Thanks!
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Peep away ;) - it's all yours

I'll be interested to hear what it looks like on a large screen - a 22" HDMI monitor is the best I've seen it on.

Whatever it looks like, though, it's purely academic because I doubt if I'll ever need to takes vids in such circumstances. For family stuff indoors using normal lighting I'm more than happy with my GH1 - and, in fact, am wondering if a GH2 would really be any better for my own use.

I've got a £100 deposit on a pre-order, and I'm increasingly tempted to get my money back and soldier on with the GH1. I don't know what the 'pro' opinion is - but it seems fine to me.
 
that clip performs very well. what were all your settings? ISO, film preset, etc. I will try and replicate it with mine and see how i go. I have to say that my camera is more prone to horizontal banding and it is more evident with flatter film presets. I might try both with flat and standard saturated presets for comparison to see if it improves things like Bens examples.

By the way, whats your serial no, you can pm me if you like. I am very tempted to hunt one down now in the odd chance that that was a good batch of sensors =)
 
Framerate said:
My GH1 does not show vertical banding - even under ridiculous conditions. End of.
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I've always said banding in general, whether vertical or horizontal which my pic shows. Doesn't matter to me which direction it goes it's still banding.

Randy
 
Had you WB'd that street light video we could have more easily determined the true brightness of that light which could have easily been enough to eliminate the banding.

Randy
 
MR Fanny said:
that clip performs very well. what were all your settings? ISO, film preset, etc. I will try and replicate it with mine and see how i go. I have to say that my camera is more prone to horizontal banding and it is more evident with flatter film presets. I might try both with flat and standard saturated presets for comparison to see if it improves things like Bens examples.

By the way, whats your serial no? I am very tempted to hunt one down =)
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1600 iso

Film Mode: Smooth

Contrast: +1

Sharpness: +2

Saturation: -2

Noise reduction: +1

Serial is WE9LB001xxx (December 2009)

It was one of the 'Harrison' cameras that were sold brand new & boxed for £249 a couple of weeks ago. There are some on Ebay (all from that batch) but sellers seem to be hiking the prices - although one did go for £330, which is probably an acceptable mark up to pay for a good (brand new) GH1

*If* I go ahead with my GH2 order, I'll be selling this one ;) I'd have a job to explain to my owner why I've got two cameras - she wouldn't understand ;)
 
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Cavemandude said:
Had you WB'd that street light video we could have more easily determined the true brightness of that light which could have easily been enough to eliminate the banding.

Randy
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Well, never mind, don't let it ruin your day ;)

It was on AWB - which is reasonably close.
 
C'mon Caveman...Framerate did everything you asked. I don't have issues with banding in my GH-1 either.

There is no sense in asking someone to try and break the codec by shooting in less than optimal filming conditions. What camera "wouldn't" have issues shooting in that environment? I say in most cases of banding....it's operator error.
 
Ok, since I have a security light on a utility pole in my backyard I went ahead and shot the same type of video using the same settings on my GH1 as Framerate's video, all the way down to the auto white balance being on. I also used a Canon FD 50mm lens.

Now the difference is I made two videos, the first which shouldn't show any banding problem and the second video that does. These videos were shot one right after the other in the same yard to keep things consistent with the camera and environment.

Video 1 - This should have no banding in it just like Framerate's video. I ramped the aperture up and down but also adjusted the focus and panned the GH1 back and forth since that makes it easier to see banding on the sensor. I think it makes for a pretty good comparison, also it's a lot brighter looking when you watch it fullscreen instead of embedded. Same Film Mode settings as Framerates.



Video 2 - This video was shot right after the first video by simply turning around and walking about 10 feet to a backdoor light and shooting video of the wall and then a white propane tank. All the same settings as the first video. You should be able to see vertical banding just to the right of center when the wall comes into the picture and also when the propane tank is shown. Same Film Mode settings as Framerate's.


Two videos taken seconds apart, one without banding and one with. Original MTS files are available for download from Vimeo and make sure you watch it full screen to see the banding on the second video. Hell, there might be banding in the first video but it's pretty hard to see if there is.

Randy
 
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I agree with Cavemandude, that Framerate has not shown footage, that would show banding. Banding happens in underexposed areas of flat and single color(low contrast) surfaces. Shoot a white wall when underexposed and you will get banding.
 
Futurity said:
I agree with Cavemandude, that Framerate has not shown footage, that would show banding. Banding happens in underexposed areas of flat and single color(low contrast) surfaces. Shoot a white wall when underexposed and you will get banding.
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(Huge Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

GH1 in darkened room, completely plain light grey wall, (sorry I couldn't paint it white for you) iso1600

Canon 50mm f/1.8 - starting at f/5.6, then f/8, f/11, f16, f/22

This was 'hugely' underexposed - even at f5.6 it was -3EV, at the other f/stops it was off the metering scale.

The doubters will be gratified to (at long, long last) to see some (shock, horror) 'banding ;)

However, I would contend that anyone not actually confined in a straight jacket would be more than happy with a GH1 that performed like this.

What's next? - perhaps smashing my GH1 with a 151b sledgehammer would give you a sufficiently acceptable torture test?....

(p.s. you're all round the bend - you *do* realise that, don't you? :cheesy: )

http://vimeo.com/16922918
 
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I was also messing around with settings and such last night and while the camera was pointed at a wall in my house that is known for it's banding-inducing color and texture, I did a "pixel refresh" for the heck of it. I noticed that when the camera came back on, that there was more banding noise than before I did the pixel refresh. I noticed more chroma noise too. I left the room and let the camera sit on for a while just staring at the wall. When I came back, there was less banding.

Can someone else try this as well and let me know if you also see a difference?
 
Svart said:
I was also messing around with settings and such last night and while the camera was pointed at a wall in my house that is known for it's banding-inducing color and texture, I did a "pixel refresh" for the heck of it. I noticed that when the camera came back on, that there was more banding noise than before I did the pixel refresh. I noticed more chroma noise too. I left the room and let the camera sit on for a while just staring at the wall. When I came back, there was less banding.

Can someone else try this as well and let me know if you also see a difference?
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Can you post pictures / footage?
 
Thanks for all the testing framerate - you're being very patient!
It certainly looks like you're lucky enough to have a low-banding camera - but it still falls short of absolute proof, because the GH1 is so variable in its banding. Sometimes I get it when I don't expect it. Other times v.v.

You've done some great testing but there's only so much you can do with one camera.

We still need that test of two GH1's next to each other taking the same shot with the same settings and seeing a difference. I've done that with my two GH1's bought a year apart and there's no (or very tiny) difference.

Where do you live? Can we hook you up with someone with a bad banding camera?
 
Framerate said:
(Huge Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)

GH1 in darkened room, completely plain light grey wall, (sorry I couldn't paint it white for you) iso1600

Canon 50mm f/1.8 - starting at f/5.6, then f/8, f/11, f16, f/22

This was 'hugely' underexposed - even at f5.6 it was -3EV, at the other f/stops it was off the metering scale.

The doubters will be gratified to (at long, long last) to see some (shock, horror) 'banding ;)

However, I would contend that anyone not actually confined in a straight jacket would be more than happy with a GH1 that performed like this.

What's next? - perhaps smashing my GH1 with a 151b sledgehammer would give you a sufficiently acceptable torture test?....

(p.s. you're all round the bend - you *do* realise that, don't you? :cheesy: )

http://vimeo.com/16922918
Click to expand...

Nope, that video still won't prove anything. I guess you simply don't understand the explanations I and other people have tried to give you. I've put up my videos (and pics) so that should be enough for people to draw their own conclusions.

Randy
 
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Cavemandude said:
Nope, that video still won't prove anything. I guess you simply don't understand the explanations I've and even other people have tried to give you. I've put up my videos (and pics) so that should be enough for people to draw their own conclusions.

Randy
Click to expand...


I'm sure that your explanations are more valuable than Holy writ - however, being the sort of stupid, obstinate, and irredeemably stubborn person that I am, I still prefer to believe the evidence of my own eyes.

I have posted footage taken under room lights, outdoor footage with just a firework to illuminate the scene, footage with a street light, footage with no light at all - and, finally, footage of a completely non-contrasting wall that was so grossly underexposed that it would make a grown man cry - and *still* the banding has yet to appear, except perhaps a smidgen in the blank wall shot.

You move the goalposts, I kick the ball in. You move them again, I kick the ball in again - but, you're right, let others draw their own conclusions.

I simply can't be a*sed to play any more of your games.

Bye.
 
Thanks for your efforts Framerate, you have shown great patience in providing us with good samples. I looked at your raw clips and it seems that your GH1 is working very well it those situations.
Perhaps we should all concentrate on filming footage that is properlly exposed and stop worrying about all the artifacts that come with poorly lit scenes with a sub thousand dollar camera.
 
I accidentally dropped my GH13 into an open sewer, and after I dried it out, the banding was completely gone! I'm hoping someone will duplicate my results, but, unfortunately, I'm not sure of the precise content of the sewer.
 
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