A fine, fine set. :thumbsup:
If you could give one piece of advice to a beginner...
- Thread starter davbeisner
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A fine, fine set. :thumbsup:
1) Learn still photography first
2) We're happy you're excited, but no one wants to see your cat
3) Unless you have a compelling reason to otherwise use Mac/FCP, it isn't, in fact, the best choice for use with the HVX. Edius Broadcast and Adobe CS3.
This IS your opinion on work flow. Hundreds if not thousands of others would not think the PC with Windows is a beter choice. I wouldn't edit HD on a PC under any circumstances. Windows OS is not as stable. PERIOD.
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I guess I am like thousands, where I do not have any issues with Final Cut. I have used it since day one, so maybe it is operatior error. As far as the extras? My Macs are designed to work with Final Cut Studio 2. Meta Data? You do not loose that information on a Mac. Do your homework.
cheezweezl
Veteran
here's some advice. don't ever ask which software/operating system to use on this site as you will be led in 10 different directions. with that said, mac and fcp works perfectly with hvx so don't be swayed by some pc lover 
here's something good. i was in the same boat as you 2 years ago. i was operating a recording studio and got into this on the side. now i have sold the studio and do this full time. i have gotten more work in the last 2 years than i did in the previous 5 years in the studio. it's been non-stop.
btw. i edit a LOT and work with other editors, etc. i have yet to come across anyone in l.a. that seriously uses premiere, edius, vegas, or any of those. it's avid or fcp or you get laughed at. period.
here's something good. i was in the same boat as you 2 years ago. i was operating a recording studio and got into this on the side. now i have sold the studio and do this full time. i have gotten more work in the last 2 years than i did in the previous 5 years in the studio. it's been non-stop.
btw. i edit a LOT and work with other editors, etc. i have yet to come across anyone in l.a. that seriously uses premiere, edius, vegas, or any of those. it's avid or fcp or you get laughed at. period.
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cheezweezl
Veteran
you'll find that all your awesome high end large diphragm condensers are all but useless for recording dialogue on set. they are great for getting room tone or ambient sounds and kick ass for adr and voiceover. however, you need a shotgun and a boom op that knows where to point it or good lavs to get clean dialogue. well, unless you are doing all your shooting in recording studios or otherwise dead rooms. shooting anywhere else is a reflection nightmare and you need that super skinny pattern to get the dialogue and as little of the other stuff as possible. the sennheiser 416 is the industry standard. well worth the bucks.
1- Audio. You can get away with mediocre video with excelent audio- you can't do the inverse.
2- Lights. These camera like lights. The way you use lights is the way you "paint"your image.
3- "think" about the whole video and were your shot fits in it. Sometimes, coming from still photography creates you a vice of thinking about a beautiful frame, but not think about where it fits in the whole of the video/film. Remember, still photography is about a picture, and film is 25/24 pictures a second! Its not called motion picture for nothing...
4- Never try to please everyone on set about artisitc matters. You're the boss, remember that. Its your project, and in the end, its your name in the director's chair. You can't say "it was someones sugestion, or "they tought it was good".
5- If working with a group of people, give them rest regularly. The time you take out from them on rest will come back at you on the whole look of the production.
6- Do not cast friends because they are easy. See if they can act first. There's no saving anything if the actors are terrible.
7- Have someone to look into the details and continuity. the more extra "jobs"you handle, the less you can spend on making the movie look good.
And lots more....
2- Lights. These camera like lights. The way you use lights is the way you "paint"your image.
3- "think" about the whole video and were your shot fits in it. Sometimes, coming from still photography creates you a vice of thinking about a beautiful frame, but not think about where it fits in the whole of the video/film. Remember, still photography is about a picture, and film is 25/24 pictures a second! Its not called motion picture for nothing...
4- Never try to please everyone on set about artisitc matters. You're the boss, remember that. Its your project, and in the end, its your name in the director's chair. You can't say "it was someones sugestion, or "they tought it was good".
5- If working with a group of people, give them rest regularly. The time you take out from them on rest will come back at you on the whole look of the production.
6- Do not cast friends because they are easy. See if they can act first. There's no saving anything if the actors are terrible.
7- Have someone to look into the details and continuity. the more extra "jobs"you handle, the less you can spend on making the movie look good.
And lots more....
davbeisner
Well-known member
Makes sense, thanks!
John Froton
Well-known member
While I do understand that the production industry tends to harbor accepted standards, there has to be a point where preconceptions evolve and standards change. I think the idea of laughing at Premiere or Edius when comparing the software against Avid or FCP as a tool comes from the status quo of what things were like 12 years ago. It's obviously evident that most of the software NLE's out there now can work as effective tools to get the jobs and related workflows done enough to where no true professional should really discredit the capabilities.
Although I agree that FCP and Mac software is completely capable, I think David's comments about Premiere and Edius have merit. At the time that DVCPro HD was just getting implemented into most NLE's, Edius was really the only program that was supporting the format natively without glitches,bugs or workarounds. Of course all of that changes as updates and workflows improve, but even so, take a look at Premiere and you've got some interesting features that make it a powerful NLE when working with DVCPro HD such as the OnLocation monitoring and capturing software that essentialy turns a laptop into a usable monitor and direct capture device for even creating 24pn files without the added pulldown frames, direct from camera to hard drive.
The bottom line is that no tool should be discredited based on reputation. Especially tools that evolve and change so quickly as software NLE's do. If it does the job well, it earn's the right to be used by professionals.
Possibly the best piece of advice I could give (and i've only been doing this for a couple of years) is not to expect miracles. You have to work hard and long before getting close to the shots you have in your head. If you think the HVX is the answer to getting the film look, you are only maybe a quarter right... so if that is the main reason behind your choice of camera, do some searches on this board to reveal the full extent of acheiving a film look.
That said, my two must haves are Barry's book/dvd and Adobe OnLocation. the book is a godsend and the software is just such a great piece of kit to experiement with and begin to understand the camera and it's settings.
That said, my two must haves are Barry's book/dvd and Adobe OnLocation. the book is a godsend and the software is just such a great piece of kit to experiement with and begin to understand the camera and it's settings.
davbeisner
Well-known member
Actually, I'm not necessarily looking for a film look. We'll be doing promotional videos and I think I want the sharpness of video for what I'll be doing. I suppose eventually I'll want to get some film-like quality for other things I'll be doing, but hopefully by then I'll be able to afford a DoF adapter like the Letus with some good 35mm lenses.
Already got OnLocation on my personal computer (I have the entire Adobe Masterworks collection) and it looks pretty exciting. Unfortunately, I don't own a laptop so I've not been able to take it out in the field yet. But hopefully the school where I work will assign me a good laptop soon that I can use out in the field. Then I'll install it and have some fun with it! What's the recommended workflow for HD from the HVX to OnLocation? Will I need to get an external capture device from AJA, Matrox, or Blackmagic? Or will the firewire output send HD quality?
dvxhutch
Well-known member
1 - Sound is more important than picture in low budget film making. But with your experience, you've got it covered!
2 - The script and actors are always THE most important aspects of film making. LONESOME JIM (shot on a DVX) may not look quite as polished as a super 35 movie, but it beats the pants off most Hollywood films on that criteria.
3 - You say FCP but I assume you mean FINAL CUT STUDIO 2, as FCP no longer comes separately. Pay attention to COLOR, a high end color grader. Color grading is one of the most neglected aspects of low budget film making, but with your setup you can take full advantage of it.
GOOD LUCK!
2 - The script and actors are always THE most important aspects of film making. LONESOME JIM (shot on a DVX) may not look quite as polished as a super 35 movie, but it beats the pants off most Hollywood films on that criteria.
3 - You say FCP but I assume you mean FINAL CUT STUDIO 2, as FCP no longer comes separately. Pay attention to COLOR, a high end color grader. Color grading is one of the most neglected aspects of low budget film making, but with your setup you can take full advantage of it.
GOOD LUCK!
John Froton
Well-known member
You wont need a specialized capture device. The firewire will send out the HD just fine. You only need to set the camcorder on any setting other than the 720 native settings (such as 720 24pn) as the native video is not embedded in an NTSC signal that can be output of the camcorder when using the native settings.
I use a 15 ft firewire cable from HVX to laptop (should have a core-duo processor or equivalent with 2 gigs of ram and decent graphic card) and then plug in an external hard drive (I use multiple WD Mybook drives rated at 7200 rpm) using USB 2.0.
Simple workflow -- firewire to connect the camera to laptop and USB 2.0 to connect laptop to external drive --- all works well
davbeisner
Well-known member
Yes, that's what I meant. I've been told that Adobe's After Effects is what I should use for any animation stuff. Does it integrate well with FCS or will I just have to create the animations and then import them as movie files? I've actually never used After Effects so I'm really not sure what it does or how I would use it in my work. I've just been told I'll need it.
I've only just started with OnLocation myself, but the workflow seems very easy. Right now, I tend to just use it for focusing and setting up the shot, then record to P2 but I have been testing the capture facility and it works well (so well, in fact, that i'm selling my FS100).
As John said, a decent spec laptop will be a must... most notably, a fast hard drive.
As John said, a decent spec laptop will be a must... most notably, a fast hard drive.
Sorry, but that's just incorrect. I know you'll never be convinced of it, but it's incorrect nonetheless.
:beer:
That IS what I am saying, yes. (And it's pretty much a foregone conclusion when I say there are better choices than Mac/FCP for working with P2, tons of FCP users will take me as saying that you can't edit P2 material in FCP, when of course I'm not saying that at all. Regrettable, but unavoidable, I suppose.)
So, I'll say it again -- before you decide which NLE to choose, do your homework. Get a complete picture. Thoroughly explore. See what each can and can't do. Decide which best fits your preferred workflow.
I agree David.
I prefer a Mac, but have had Edius Broadcast envy for a long time
My only complaint with Windows boxes relate to the whole internet spyware, malware, adware, etc. I know you can be vigilant about that stuff, but I just don't want to deal with it.
But I also hate the Mac/PC wars. Everyone is entitled to their own tools.
I do disagree with your statement that there are "better choices" than a Mac/FCP for working with p2.
I would say there are "different choices" that better suit each person's preferred workflow.
Does it integrate well with FCS or will I just have to create the animations and then import them as movie files? I've actually never used After Effects so I'm really not sure what it does or how I would use it in my work. I've just been told I'll need it.
It integrates the same with Final Cut as it does with any other NLE which isn't Premiere.
Obviously, nothing will integrate as well as Adobe's own suite, in which you can open projects across applications instead of having to do back-and-forth renders. But that's 'coz they're all Adobe products. Only makes sense.
Well, that is correct, and for some people, working in a particular NLE is the most important thing. Nothing wrong with that; everyone has different factors.
I say other options are "better" because they work with the P2/MXF data in the way it's intended to be worked with. No conversions, no compromises, no waiting, no conforming the data to the NLE, etc..
Of course, the unspoken elephant in the room is the notion that hey, you don't have to limit yourself to only one NLE. I have all five major NLEs. And though I've been a Vegas guy, I've been finding that the other options have been calling me away more and more simply because the footage is better-handled in those other choices.