d5Dmk90?

Coco Bermudez

Coco Bermudez

Well-known member
yeah I know..stupid title for this post.

I am just wondering if anyone here has both the d90 and the 5d mkII. I have read all the tech stuff on them both. i am just looking for the filmmakers perspective...how easy they are to use..or trick..or hack. I myself already have the d90 and I love it..yeah I got to play all those tricks so I can get the image I want, but I love it.

If you have both cameras, or have worked with both of them, i would love to hear what you have to say...which feels right?
 
i have used both, still do and haven't really made a choice either way, and it's actually very simple: the 5d is a better camera but it doesn't have 24p.

/matt
 
I own a D90...However, I use both and agree with matt. 2nd gen cameras will be closer to what we really want.
 
mattsand said:
i have used both, still do and haven't really made a choice either way, and it's actually very simple: the 5d is a better camera but it doesn't have 24p.

/matt
Click to expand...

is the only reason you hold on to the d90 because of the 24p? I know know as a still camera the 5d mkII is probably a better camera...but when it comes to video what are your thoughts as a filmmaker?
 
mattsand said:
yes. you make it sound like it's a minor thing but the 5d is essentially a brick when it comes to filmmaking. completely useless.

/matt
Click to expand...

oh no..i know it is not a minor thing...but I do have some clients that do not like the 24p look...go figure. I am so comfortable shooting with the nikon d90 that I seriously want to ditch my HVX200 and my DSR490.

I also wonder about the reality of firmwares vs. hardware upgrades. I remember I used to own a Canon XL1 and there was never an firmware upgrade...then came the XL1s with some minor upgrades..maybe the phot department is different
 
it's not a look, it's a framerate. 30p works well for north american tv, but my outlets are theaters and european tv, neither of which support 30 fps.

/matt
 
mattsand said:
it's not a look, it's a framerate. 30p works well for north american tv, but my outlets are theaters and european tv, neither of which support 30 fps.

/matt
Click to expand...

off course it's a framerate...but I have yet I marketing director refer to it at that...the ones that do not like 24p say...it looks funny, it doesn't look real...not all say that, but I have a few that like the realness of "just" video
 
You can always convert 30p to 24p without much trouble in post. We have been doing it for months. 99% of the time it works very well.
 
mattsand said:
so when have they ever seen any other framerate in the theater or on pal tv (25 in that case)?

/matt
Click to expand...

most only know what they have seen before....60i. When the CEO has to give a speech or they shoot a little in-house promo, they do not shoot 24p..they just grab the handycam in the closet and just shoot crappy video...but to them, that is all they know.

Again, i am saying that this is the case for maybe 4 or 5 of my 30+ clients. I just have to please everyone. Some get it..some don't. We don't live in a perfect world...c'mon you know what I am talking about. How many times have I had to explain to some clients the reason there are "black bars cuttinh through the image" I just did a 60k video and had to remove "the bars"..idiotic but it happens in the corporate world
 
Super8 said:
do you use twixtor? Are rendering times a bear?
Click to expand...

That will work. People are using different software, I recall someone mentioning Timewarp. Some are better than others, really depends on how it works. Not sure what to say about render times, depends on your system, the settings you use, and how long the clip is.
 
I have both and since I got the 5D I really haven't used the D90 much except for some timelapse stuff. With a Nikon adapter and glass on the 5D it really is easy to force the camera into most scenarios you want. It sucks when you leave record and it resets to auto exposure but using a cell phone/light source it can be easily forced back into exact settings. Folks on most forums complain at length about the 5D, but its seems less of a hassle then the D90 to me. With a canon lens I think its a whole different story and much more difficult and that is what most complain about.

Metering of nikon non cpu lenses on the 5D is pretty cool where the D90 doesn't meter with its own lenses of this type.

The frame rate is really the only thing to me that makes me cringe. So far I havent had any dialog voice with it so I just conformed the footage to 24 and it looks great. I did a few tests with Twixtor and Timewarp with decent results for interpolated footage.

My number one thing is always final output quality... and as far as that goes they are not even close. I still like the D90, it has a charm about it and treated right in good hands it can look pretty darned good. I am a Nikon fan all the way but until they sort the bugs its a clear 5D choice for me:beer:

atm
 
Super8 said:
most only know what they have seen before....60i.
Click to expand...
exactly, a format that was never used for filmmaking and most likely never will. as i said for tv 30p works fine, otherwise it doesn't work at all. you specifically mentioned filmmaking in your post so that's the context in which i'm commenting.

/matt
 
Super8 said:
most only know what they have seen before....60i. When the CEO has to give a speech or they shoot a little in-house promo, they do not shoot 24p..they just grab the handycam in the closet and just shoot crappy video...but to them, that is all they know.

Again, i am saying that this is the case for maybe 4 or 5 of my 30+ clients. I just have to please everyone. Some get it..some don't. We don't live in a perfect world...c'mon you know what I am talking about. How many times have I had to explain to some clients the reason there are "black bars cuttinh through the image" I just did a 60k video and had to remove "the bars"..idiotic but it happens in the corporate world
Click to expand...

lmao
 
Superb 30p to 24p Workflow

1. Create copy of clip so you'll have two clips, one to convert to 24p and one to preserve audio.

2. Open Cinema Tool (part of Final Cut Studio), File, "Open Clip", choose "Conform", specify "23.98" to conform to.

Explanation: This keeps the same number of frames in the clip, it only changes the timebase from 30fps to 24fps, essentially creates overcranked footage by 6 frames, (desirable on some shots). As a result this makes the clip longer and slows the audio down which is undesirable where audio is important. At this point you've already created a copy of the original clip therefore preserving the original audio which we'll relink later in Final Cut.

3. Now we'll convert the clip to a desirable format for the workflow and effectively speed the clip back up so you get desirable 24p realtime results. Using Compressor 3 convert the clip to any of the following settings:

* Apple Pro Res
* Apple Intermediate Codec
* DVCPRO

Important: Make sure that no matter which codec you use that it remains as a 23.98 fps timebase.

Now open the inspector window so we can do some tweaking. Under "Frame Controls" tab, click the button to the right of "Frame Controls:" to enable this feature. Once enabled, select "On" for "Frame Controls:" Underneath the "Retiming Control" section is where we'll make changes. For "Set Duration to:" click the radio button where it will allow us to put in a percentage. The magical number we'll want to put in here is 79.996%, then depending on how well you want the footage to look also taking into consideration the time it will require to compress it choose the desired quality under "Rate Conversion:". I choose, "Best (High quality motion compesnation)" to get superb results, however this increases the compression time.

Now, what have we done here? We've converted the unusable H.264 format into a format we can edit in and sped the footage back up to original duration using Apple's Optical Flow Technology.

4. Now take the treated clip into Final Cut insuring the timebase is 23.98, delete the audio track and add the audio from the copy of the clip we made. Now relink and presto!

I've extensively tested this and find it to be the best way to convert 30p to 24p for the time being, or atleast until and hopefully Canon comes up with a firmware to address the issue.

Additional Tips: If you have multiple clips to treat, in Cinema Tools, choose "Batch Conform" locate one file where all the files are located. Then setup batch conversions in compressor, if you have a quad core or 8 core configure Q master to take advantage of all cores otherwise it will take longer.

One final note, depending on the specific needs of your project you may need to treat many individual clips or take your finished project (of course h.264 has been converted to an editable format) and follow the steps above to get great results. I've tested a 9 minute clip and was able to complete the compression on an 8 core in one hour and a half.

Bests,
Denver Riddle
 
you don't have to confirm first. just use compressor and set the output frame rate to 23.98 and the result will be exactly the same. increasing the speed by 20% and reducing the framerate by the same amount is the exact same problem, and compressor does indeed solve it the exact same way. are the results good? not really, especially considering the insane rendering time.

/matt
 
squig said:
lmao
Click to expand...

man I tell you..most of my clients get it..but some.....man I could go on and on...

4 months ago I shot some beauty shots on widescreen...
client comes back and says....
"yeah looks awesome but can the black lines become red as our logo and can we put our phone number and website info in it? WTF??????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top