Convergent Design Ships Odyssey7, New Firmware for Odyssey7 & Odyssey7Q on Monday

[fab410]

We actually are working rather closely with Canon, and have done a lot of hidden work within the code based on Canon requests and requirements. It might not mean more features at this time but it does mean improvements in the features present. And there are more to come.

It is good to know progress is being made thanks for that update.

I guess when I look back 18 months to when I first purchased my C500/Gemini combo either I was really naive thinking these upgrades would come in a timely fashion or CD was much too optimistic in their ability to deliver...

Either way I am STILL waiting not so patiently as before.

 

[boosh]

It's really good to see 4k RAW at 120fps for the FS700- This is truly great work. For me personally, I will never use this though because of how much card space the RAW files take up and because of the extra hassle with the workflow. What i'm really waiting for is the 4k2HD at 60fps and the 4k Prores.

 

[Ed Ding]

It's really good to see 4k RAW at 120fps for the FS700- This is truly great work. For me personally, I will never use this though because of how much card space the RAW files take up and because of the extra hassle with the workflow. What i'm really waiting for is the 4k2HD at 60fps and the 4k Prores.

I guess 90% of us agree here. It's a shame and it's way too late, regardless when it will be finally released! That's a fact and I regret I ever bought the 7Q.

 

[rheinturmblau]

About chances of 4K recording in ProRes:

#1: Sony FS700 RAW output: 4K @ 24, 25 or 30 FPS
Understood: ProRes 4K recording is top priority, will come soon.

#2: Sony FS700 RAW output: 4K @ 50 or 60 FPS
Understood: ProRes 4K recording is uncertain from todays knowledge. It might come, if the code and computing power of the Odyssey7Q are able to deliver that stable and reliable. Otherwise, we have to use uncompressed RAW recording.

#3: Sony FS700 RAW output: RAW playback of a 4K @ 100 or 120 FPS burst into internal buffer
Question: Is the playback out of the camera technically a 50/60 FPS data feed? So ProRes recording is stuck to #2 destiny? Or is that a different matter? We have the path using uncompressed RAW recording, again.

Of course, it's no fun to handle and transfer uncompressed files of that size. If #2 and #3 are uncertain, it seems time to take a deeper look into optimizing that workflow and upgrading the postproduction pipeline.

From my point of view, if I have to regret something, then it would be buying the Sony FS700 and the CD Odyssey7Q. Just to remind: There is no real alternative for FS700 users, if you are looking for compressed recording in any configuration. The Sony path delivers the same size of RAW files. So a different 4K production setup will also be a farewell to the Sony FS700.

 

[Pgale]

Why would you regret buying the FS700 and O7Q??? It's a stunning combination, even for 4K2HD alone. Add on a superb monitor and it's a truly great package. As there are no used O7Q's around, I'm sure these would fetch a very good price second hand too

 

[rheinturmblau]

Just in case, 4K is the main use case.
We use it for internal corporate projects and 4K might be mandatory soon.

The FS700 & O7Q combo is terrific for HD production, no doubt.

 

[stefanhuberfilms]

Limitations are written by what we are confident we can achieve. We know we will be able to properly process data fast enough to generate 4K compressed up to 30p, so that's the promised spec. If we find that with efficiencies we can do more, then we'll do it.

Mitch, you where the one who posted roadmaps and assured that we will get 4k up to 60p. You and Convergent Design even put up the roadmap on your website, stated as follows:

1. 2K RAW CinemaDng recording up to 240 fps
2. 4K YCC 422 Compressed Video recording up to 60 fps
3. 4K RAW Supersampled to HD 422 Video, up to 60 fps
4. 4K RAW Supersampled to HD 444 Video, up to 60 fps

Until today (and probably the following months to come) you (CD) were not able to deliver the promised features. Secondly, you only delivered 4K2HD recording up to 30p, instead of sticking to the roadmap and releasing features the promised order - just a side note.

And now, 4K60p simply can't be done? Does that company named "Convergent Design" even know that they are burning other peoples money? WTF is going on here?

Yeah, i know we can still shoot RAW 4K60p, great, i of course love to burn down 500 gigs in 12 Minutes! We all trusted you Mitch, but you did what you are great in, overpromising and underdelivering.

Sorry if this all sounds harsh, but simply cutting down the features as you like is not acceptable.

I would really love to hear your answer on this. And please, don't start your sentence with "We can understand your frustrations..." i've heard that one enough.

PS.: I still think that the 7Q is a great product, it's maybe just the wrong company, with the wrong business model, that invented it.

 

[rejdmast]

The Sony path delivers the same size of RAW files.

I believe the Sony RAW files are significantly smaller than the 7Q's cDNG files.

 

[Gene Sung]

I believe the Sony RAW files are significantly smaller than the 7Q's cDNG files.

2 1/2 times smaller actually. Sony RAW is compressed while CDs is uncompressed..

 

[McReedy]

I believe the Sony RAW files are significantly smaller than the 7Q's cDNG files.

Compress your dailies with Adobe DNG Converter overnight and you will end with a similar lossless-compressed RAW DNG filesize.

 

[Gene Sung]

We actually are working rather closely with Canon, and have done a lot of hidden work within the code based on Canon requests and requirements. It might not mean more features at this time but it does mean improvements in the features present. And there are more to come.

Hi Mitch,

With how long it took, like many here, I'm a bit underwhelmed by this update.

Was this suppose to be more of a code re-write type of update or does that only apply to Canon? I never really got the sense that the 7Q was built upon sound code with how glitchy it was. if this release was mean to re-build the 7Q foundation and make it easier for future updates I can accept it a bit more, and that's what I hope it is.

But yeah, no 60fps 4K2HD or 4K compressed after all this time is tough to swallow. I certainly hope the next firmware will have some promised features and not just a be modest maintenance update.

 

[jshbckr]

No matter how upset we may be about features not being implemented, here are the sad facts:

We have parted ways with our money already. We own it, so we're kind of captive and will end up getting whatever firmware features we get. The truth is, I would have to sell my Odyssey7Q + FS700 and buy an F55+R5 plus accessories for about $40k or a RED Epic plus accessories for about $50k to match the frame rates and resolution I'm getting out of the FS700+7Q combo.

I'm not anywhere near the position to invest that much money into a camera, so I'm still happy to have the features we have in the 7Q...

Is this what stockholm syndrome feels like? :2vrolijk_08:

 

[Gene Sung]

Is this what stockholm syndrome feels like? :2vrolijk_08:

Actially, Stockholm Syndrome is where you come to love and empathize with your captors. Not sure if that's happening. LOL. I totally agree with you in that 7Q is a great product, I just wish the firmware would move faster.

 

[Dbatch]

I seem to remember that the 7Q was going to have user-loadable 3DLUTs for on-screen viewing?

It's not a critical feature, but I really really (REALLY!) would love the option to preview different grades of the Slog2 (RAW and 4k2hd?) images when I'm shooting... It would also help with exposure when in a total rush, versus using the false-colours. The SmallHD works super well with this feature, and it wasssss a major part of the reason I bought my 7Q...

Anyone see how far down the path this is? It is no longer mentioned in firmware update comments/requests, so Mitch, please have good news! :dankk2:

 

[rheinturmblau]

CD developed the small size SSD to store different sets of 3D-LUTs, so I would be optimistic about that.
It's somewhere in that mysterious development pipeline.

...
Odyssey Utility Drive
- For firmware updates & future functions
- Won't record video files
- For clients who use Odyssey as monitor
...

It is low capacity nd it will not be able to record video files. It is for firmware updates, as well as other future utility functions such as housing a library of 3D-LUTs.

I don't know, if "future function" is good news or bad news for you. It's not coming this Monday.

 

[Mitch Gross]

It's really good to see 4k RAW at 120fps for the FS700- This is truly great work. For me personally, I will never use this though because of how much card space the RAW files take up and because of the extra hassle with the workflow. What i'm really waiting for is the 4k2HD at 60fps and the 4k Prores.

Just to point out, the 4K RAW 120p is only 440 frames. Played back at 24p that's only about 18 seconds. So it's not like it really takes up a huge amount of data or is that onorous to process. And how many slow motion shots do you shoot that really need to last on screen for 18 seconds or more?

For perspective, when the Phantom 65 was first introduced as the world's first purchasable 4K digital cinema camera (2007), the memory buffer was 16G. That's just 42 seconds of footage played back at 24p, and it took 15 minutes to download it off the camera. The camera was about $150,000.

 

[Mitch Gross]

About chances of 4K recording in ProRes:

#1: Sony FS700 RAW output: 4K @ 24, 25 or 30 FPS
Understood: ProRes 4K recording is top priority, will come soon.

#2: Sony FS700 RAW output: 4K @ 50 or 60 FPS
Understood: ProRes 4K recording is uncertain from todays knowledge. It might come, if the code and computing power of the Odyssey7Q are able to deliver that stable and reliable. Otherwise, we have to use uncompressed RAW recording.

#3: Sony FS700 RAW output: RAW playback of a 4K @ 100 or 120 FPS burst into internal buffer
Question: Is the playback out of the camera technically a 50/60 FPS data feed? So ProRes recording is stuck to #2 destiny? Or is that a different matter? We have the path using uncompressed RAW recording, again.

Of course, it's no fun to handle and transfer uncompressed files of that size. If #2 and #3 are uncertain, it seems time to take a deeper look into optimizing that workflow and upgrading the postproduction pipeline.

From my point of view, if I have to regret something, then it would be buying the Sony FS700 and the CD Odyssey7Q. Just to remind: There is no real alternative for FS700 users, if you are looking for compressed recording in any configuration. The Sony path delivers the same size of RAW files. So a different 4K production setup will also be a farewell to the Sony FS700.

You are correct that #3 is tied to #2. The FS700 outputs the high frame rate material as either 50p or 60p, so our recording capabilities are tied to those two frame rates.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Mitch, you where the one who posted roadmaps and assured that we will get 4k up to 60p. You and Convergent Design even put up the roadmap on your website, stated as follows:

1. 2K RAW CinemaDng recording up to 240 fps
2. 4K YCC 422 Compressed Video recording up to 60 fps
3. 4K RAW Supersampled to HD 422 Video, up to 60 fps
4. 4K RAW Supersampled to HD 444 Video, up to 60 fps

Until today (and probably the following months to come) you (CD) were not able to deliver the promised features. Secondly, you only delivered 4K2HD recording up to 30p, instead of sticking to the roadmap and releasing features the promised order - just a side note.

And now, 4K60p simply can't be done? Does that company named "Convergent Design" even know that they are burning other peoples money? WTF is going on here?

Yeah, i know we can still shoot RAW 4K60p, great, i of course love to burn down 500 gigs in 12 Minutes! We all trusted you Mitch, but you did what you are great in, overpromising and underdelivering.

Sorry if this all sounds harsh, but simply cutting down the features as you like is not acceptable.

I would really love to hear your answer on this. And please, don't start your sentence with "We can understand your frustrations..." i've heard that one enough.

PS.: I still think that the 7Q is a great product, it's maybe just the wrong company, with the wrong business model, that invented it.

The order of the road map changed for a few reasons. The difficulty found in delivering one feature v another, the expressed desires of the marketplace, changes in the market due to actions of other companies, and a variety of other reasons. Sometimes we simply get something done sooner than we expect, so we move it ahead.

Other than the Bluetooth App, we have not taken anything off the table. What we have done is reassessed as we discovered certain technical actualities (as opposed to theoreticals) and stated more conservative minimum specs. We are quite confident that we can do 4K compressed up to 30p. But as we have learned more about what the compressed encoding requires in our processor and what we need to do in order to maintain a standard we feel is proper, we have discovered some things. If we can make 4K compressed work up to 60p, then we won't hold back. We are trying to be honest here. This is the reason companies state that "specs are subject to change without notice". Not because we want to fool anyone, but because we discover things along the way. In theory I could push my old Jeep Wagoneer to 100 mph, but it would be a terribly bumpy ride that's not very safe. So in reality it is not something one should ever do. As we develop the product further and further we discover differences between theory and reality.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Hi Mitch,

With how long it took, like many here, I'm a bit underwhelmed by this update.

Was this suppose to be more of a code re-write type of update or does that only apply to Canon? I never really got the sense that the 7Q was built upon sound code with how glitchy it was. if this release was mean to re-build the 7Q foundation and make it easier for future updates I can accept it a bit more, and that's what I hope it is.

But yeah, no 60fps 4K2HD or 4K compressed after all this time is tough to swallow. I certainly hope the next firmware will have some promised features and not just a be modest maintenance update.

Under developer's NDA, I cannot go into any detail as to the nature of these changes. But they are all to the benefit of the end user and the end result.

And I think I've made it quite clear what we are working towards for our next release.

 

[Mitch Gross]

I seem to remember that the 7Q was going to have user-loadable 3DLUTs for on-screen viewing?

It's not a critical feature, but I really really (REALLY!) would love the option to preview different grades of the Slog2 (RAW and 4k2hd?) images when I'm shooting... It would also help with exposure when in a total rush, versus using the false-colours. The SmallHD works super well with this feature, and it wasssss a major part of the reason I bought my 7Q...

Anyone see how far down the path this is? It is no longer mentioned in firmware update comments/requests, so Mitch, please have good news! :dankk2:

User-definable 3D-LUTs are coming. That's expected to be one of the main uses for the Odyssey Utility Drive. There is room in the Odyssey7Q to hold several in memory, but one could fit a library of thousands onto a Utility Drive.