Bassman2003
Veteran
No not at all. I meant the 8k hype can be a positive or negative for folks. I do not care much about it but it will probably make the 4k image better.
Canon R5 Announced with 8k
- Thread starter Ken1212
- Start date
No not at all. I meant the 8k hype can be a positive or negative for folks. I do not care much about it but it will probably make the 4k image better.
brettsherman
Well-known member
Depends on how they do it. Pixel skipping could create moire. Pixel Binning has it's own problems. Oversampling may be too computationally intensive. They SHOULD be able to do it fine. But this is Canon who has only made 1 decent, well-featured SLR for video in the last 10 years. So who knows. And crop factor is right out! I'd wait for the R6 if they try to add a crop factor to 4K on the R5.
Bassman2003
Veteran
Apparently Canon said the 8k video does not have a crop. So one would expect the other modes to be without a crop as well. We will see but who knows when with the world shut down.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Cameras like the 1DX Mark II/III and 5D Mark IV have nice 4K from higher resolution sensors so it's not really an issue if Canon doesn't make it one (moire/aliasing exists even on some higher end cameras).
Canon always saved the lower-quality via pixel-binning and line-skipping for 1080p (some cropped exceptions may exist). In the R5's case, it was mentioned in a good way; "improved" image quality (and that's all they said for now).
Nevertheless I really can't imagine the 4K looking bad from this 8K camera.
brettsherman
Well-known member
Excepting the 1DX MarkIII, they were only able to do this with significant crop factor. For those that shoot narrative work, it's not a big deal. For those that shoot real-time uncontrolled documentary-style filming, crop factor is a HUGE deal. As it requires changing lenses frequently. Based on the 1DXIII I think they've FINALLY got it figured out, but Geez did it take them a long time. I could also see them protecting the more expensive camera also. So who knows at this point.
Bassman2003
Veteran
My hope is that Canon really wants to establish the new RF mount to push RF lens sales. I think they know C-series users are probably not going to upgrade their cameras just to get the RF lenses, but still shooters will for a proper mirrorless body. This points to the need for a cracking R5 that spurs buzz and purchases. Might be wishful thinking from the copier company but can they ignore the bright light we can all see coming at the end of the tunnel? Kind of now or never in some respects. A few more generations of cell phone development and where is it all going to be?
Last edited:
cpreston
Veteran
The EOS R has an UHD to 1080p 4:1 supersampling mode. All of the past cinema EOS cameras were based around a 4K to 2K downsampling. My guess is that the 4:1 direct debayering is the least computationally intensive of the supersampling methods and Canon has it built into their chips at this point. I would be extremely surprised if the R5 doesn't do a direct 8K to 4K 4:1 downsampling that will be nearly free of moire. I would also be willing to bet that it will be an 8bit 4:2:0 recording since that is also Canon's standard for their consumer video.
Also, I actually found that the crop on the EOS R was useful because it allowed me to use my 18-135 stm lens for my documentary style projects. With that lens, I could cover almost any outdoor event. If I was stuck in low light, I could use the Sigma f/1.8 zooms. Full frame would actually require me to do more lens changes.
Also, I actually found that the crop on the EOS R was useful because it allowed me to use my 18-135 stm lens for my documentary style projects. With that lens, I could cover almost any outdoor event. If I was stuck in low light, I could use the Sigma f/1.8 zooms. Full frame would actually require me to do more lens changes.
The 33 MPX 8K is only slightly larger than a 444 4K (26.4 MPX), so it can be programmed not as downsampled image but a simple 1-for-1 readout, similar to the old Sony F35 which was 2K with 6.6 MPX. Whether or not this is how it's going to be implemented remains to be seen.
And the new Speedbooster (pricey at $460) takes most of the EOS R/5D IV crop out.
And the new Speedbooster (pricey at $460) takes most of the EOS R/5D IV crop out.
NorBro
Major Contributor
The 1DX II has a crop of ~1.3x so that's less than APS-C. (I think the 1DC back in 2012 was around 1.2x.)
But a heavier crop (~1.9x) on the IV was most likely to protect. (Why buy a 1DX if they would be exactly the same camera for video minus 60p?)
IMO, Canon is technically able to do whatever they want, but choose not to for various reasons. The engineers don't need to figure anything out, but maybe corporate does.
Generally speaking, if one knows/follows cameras, the business practices provide us everything we need to know. Certain companies specialize in highly desired features while others offer inferior versions of them or don't offer them at all.
Canon may have been stuck with crop factors for a while but was allowed the best AF. Sony was eventually allowed to have it too, but couldn't have 4K/60p. Both aren't allowed real IBIS (for now...and Sony's is horrible), while Panasonic dominates the industry with it (and Olympus via small sensors). There are more examples but that's a major one.
Also should keep in mind what other cameras offer (most larger sensor mirrorless stills cameras have crops in higher resolution framerates) and when the cameras were released. The 1DX II was a 2016 system at a time when there was no other mirrorless stills camera that offered 4K/60p. So they were way ahead of everyone for a while, but just decided to really limit most of its other features.
brettsherman
Well-known member
I don't mind a crop factor that is exactly APS-C size, so long as I can use APS-C lenses. But if it's less than APS-C that's worse because then you can't use APS-C lenses. And you're forced to shoot more telephoto than you would chose to as wide-angle zooms have hardly any reach. Not to mention you're wasting a lot of weight on glass that's not being used. Higher than APS-C crop factor also forces to shoot more telephoto. Basically crop-factor is a wide-angle killer.
Also ergonomics of the 1D line seem absolutely awful to me. Too bulky in the wrong way. When you add microphones etc, it gets ridiculously tall. Too heavy for form factor. And no viewfinder since it has a mirror, so you have to hold out front to see LCD, so basically has to be rigged. At that weight, unwieldiness, and price I'd rather just use my C200. I'm just not sure who the 1D is for. Though there seem to be some people who love it.
Last edited:
Run&Gun
Veteran
It’s for ‘still photo’ photojournalists and sports shooters, primarily. That’s why it’s built like a still camera. ; )
NorBro
Major Contributor
It's all about perspective, man. Lots of different shooters out there with different purposes. Many people are moving to full-frame and anything smaller may not be usable for them. Or many love their small MFT bodies and lenses. Or sports/nature people might love crop factors regardless of the camera, and real estate people may not.
As far as the 1D body, it's the most popular stills camera body in the history of photographers, but it's all relative; if it doesn't work for you, it's all good.
And as far as the 1.3x vs. 1.5x crop, if you had a chance to use cameras with the 1.3x-ish crops you'd learn that many APS-C lenses would cover the 1.3x crop with none or barely any vignetting besides glass on the wider side. (There are even examples online of longer APS-C lenses covering full-frame sensors with just slight vignetting which many wouldn't notice. The image circles slightly vary depending on the lens.)
Even though Canon makes a lot of questionable decisions, I don't think they will limit the 4K on this camera because I don't think they expect everyone to adopt 8K.
Last edited:
G
Guest
Guest
Yeah, I am looking forward to cheaper s35 glass that I can maybe afford someday.
Teddy_Dem
Well-known member
R5 specs have been announced:
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...e/product-showcases/cameras-and-lenses/eos-r5
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-more-mind-blowing-specs-for-the-canon-eos-r5/
- 8K RAW internal video recording up to 29.97 fps
- 8K internal video recording up to 29.97 fps in 4:2:2 10-bit Canon Log (H.265)/4:2:2 10-bit HDR PQ (H.265).
- 4K internal video recording up to 119.88 fps in 4:2:2 10-bit Canon Log (H.265)/4:2:2 10-bit HDR PQ (H.265). 4K external recording is also available up to 59.94 fps.
- No crop 8K and 4K video capture using the full-width of the sensor.*
- Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K recording modes.
- Canon Log available in 8K and 4K internal recording modes.
- A Canon first, the EOS R5 will feature 5-axis In-Body Image Stabilization, which works in conjunction with Optical IS equipped with many of the RF and EF lenses.
- Dual-card slots: 1x CFexpress and 1x SD UHS-II.
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...e/product-showcases/cameras-and-lenses/eos-r5
https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-more-mind-blowing-specs-for-the-canon-eos-r5/
- 8K RAW internal video recording up to 29.97 fps
- 8K internal video recording up to 29.97 fps in 4:2:2 10-bit Canon Log (H.265)/4:2:2 10-bit HDR PQ (H.265).
- 4K internal video recording up to 119.88 fps in 4:2:2 10-bit Canon Log (H.265)/4:2:2 10-bit HDR PQ (H.265). 4K external recording is also available up to 59.94 fps.
- No crop 8K and 4K video capture using the full-width of the sensor.*
- Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K recording modes.
- Canon Log available in 8K and 4K internal recording modes.
- A Canon first, the EOS R5 will feature 5-axis In-Body Image Stabilization, which works in conjunction with Optical IS equipped with many of the RF and EF lenses.
- Dual-card slots: 1x CFexpress and 1x SD UHS-II.
Bassman2003
Veteran
Wow! Those are some impressive specs for a Canon hybrid body. Can't believe 10-bit 4:2:2 is part of the mix. RAW video as well. Very cool. I hope they have a 1080p240fps mode as well.
I decided to try myself in the profession of a photojournalist, so now I choose a professional camera for myself. I really like the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. I read about her in this article. For this price, can I get something better?
Ryan Farnes
Well-known member
At first glance, this looks like Canon is re-asserting itself, 10 years after the 5D/7D, and possibly leapfrogging everybody.
Jaime Valles
Veteran
Specs sound amazing! Now if only they let the camera record more than 30 minutes at a time, it would be perfect.