C500: Canon C700 Production
- Thread starter Macaholic
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Eric Coughlin
Veteran
This is what the C700 demo video should have been like. Not a bunch of random horses and cowboys in a brewery promo video.
Pascal Parvex
Well-known member
I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but isn't the comparison of a maximum 3.4K camera to cameras ranging from 4 to 8K, all Super 35, a bit unfair? I mean no wonder the Arri has a better image, they have the bigger pixels to work with! Let's compare on a maybe 4K-Arri, then we'll see.
100% agree. Same with the absurd-terrible C300, C500, Sony F-anything promos.
Check out Netflix latest docs for approved cams for Features and Series. As for July 2016 both URSAs are approved. The ALEXAs are not .Totally bogus.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
C-Mac
Well-known member
IMHO the C500 and 1Dc release films where both excellent visual examples. Having two top tier cinematographers working on short films for your product is an excellent promo. Man and Beast (Jeff Cronenweth) & The Ticket (Shane Hurlbut) are a big part of why I own both of these cameras. For me, it's been everything since those that have been disappointing. I also like promos with a diversity of images like the Panasonic Varicam LT promo. I remember seeing the Red One Peter Jackson "crossing the line" promo at NAB and loved the way it was presented and thought it was excellent.
Best Regards,
Chris
I was talking out of memory, and referring to those promos shot by Laforet, Leitner "Alex" C500, that one called "Trick Shot" (C300II), those for the FS7 by Den Lennie, etc, etc.
Those you mention were better.
Still, this one from DJI is by far the most compelling and cinematic of them all. And it was shot by a €2k camera (not counting the copter in the price). You can tell they cared so much they even had a Foley editor, ADR, and a re-recording mixer, rather than just a sound editor.
Anyway, back to the C700.
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The visuals were fine but the stories were just lame. DJI took it up a notch though. Well, more like half a dozen notches. Claudio Miranda + some A-list actors = high end pro look, even as the pseudo-Movi shots were kind of hilarious. They should have done those off cable-cams.
Doug_EX
Well-known member
Never heard so many people complaining.
Canon sells cameras, they are not a company that produce movies.
Their promo videos should serve to judge what a camera is capable of and not how good they are as a story teller.
If you are looking to be entertained by a camera promo video as you would sitting in a theater watching a movie than you are missing the point. It's not Canon job to tell the story but it's user/buyer to do so.
Canon sells cameras, they are not a company that produce movies.
Their promo videos should serve to judge what a camera is capable of and not how good they are as a story teller.
If you are looking to be entertained by a camera promo video as you would sitting in a theater watching a movie than you are missing the point. It's not Canon job to tell the story but it's user/buyer to do so.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Yes, in an environment where the camera is likely to be used, which is high end narrative and TV work, not brewery promo videos. So the video failed to show how the camera performs in its target market.
A simple camera like an A7s II would perform fine in a brewery promo video, but would not perform fine for regular use on big budget movies.
Here is a brewery promo video I shot on the C100. Gosh, if only I had a C700, the video would have been so much better and the camera would have performed so much better for that type of shoot. That C700 brewery promo video really makes me want to spend $40k-$60k to make a better brewery promo video next time. Or not.
On the other hand, if I'm shooting a narrative film, then a C700 has quite a few advantages over a C100. If only there was a good example of how the C700 performs in a narrative environment, though...
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CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Well, what if the feature or TV show takes place in a brewery...?!
The niche of camera product demo films is an extraordinarily difficult one to crack, I don't think it's possible to reach a consensus (there's a lot of that going around lately...sigh). I think we can probably agree that there are certain parameters like high contrast daylight/shadow, low light performance and skintone rendition across a range of ethnicities that are standard checklist items. From there, it seems like some people want to be entertained by content, others don't care.
The niche of camera product demo films is an extraordinarily difficult one to crack, I don't think it's possible to reach a consensus (there's a lot of that going around lately...sigh). I think we can probably agree that there are certain parameters like high contrast daylight/shadow, low light performance and skintone rendition across a range of ethnicities that are standard checklist items. From there, it seems like some people want to be entertained by content, others don't care.
Doug_EX
Well-known member
Good job Eric, your video was quite good.
Retrurning to the subject.
And what about this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjKD_U2Rfx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5gpHMoBZw
Retrurning to the subject.
And what about this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjKD_U2Rfx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf5gpHMoBZw
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Then it would probably be shot entirely differently than how they shot The Calling.
I don't want to harp too much on The Calling, it was well shot for what it was. Heaps and bounds better than the C100 Mark I launch video, or 5D Mark IV launch video. I just think it would have been better served in a narrative format, or at least having shots from a narrative type of environment, where it is actually most likely to be used.
The Varicam 35 launch video was incredible, a series of images in different scenarios, all looking gorgeous. No story, but it did have scenes that could have been from a narrative piece. It had actors, lots of lighting, art direction, etc.
All natural light. The Calling was mostly natural light as well, I believe. Would it hurt to creatively light the C700? Also the mix C300 Mark II, 1DX Mark II, and C700 in this one makes it more confusing to decipher the C700's quality. And finally, I didn't think this video looked that good. The Calling was much better.
I really liked that short/commercial. Very well done. Elegant camera work and Great editing.
Now the crude reality is, in my experience when you have a budget in the several hundred thousand like here, with producers, creatives, production managers, location and casting, production design, DP, gaffer, grips, PAs, pro post house… etc, etc, you just don't use Canon cameras and you don't hand the AC a photo lens to pull focus.
In fact, you don't even give him Canon Cine primes either, because thy're ok for the price but have some breathing and CA issues. Incidentally, at the UK rental house that provided the gear for this Aston-Martin shoot (pixipixel), you can see the set of Canon primes is £300/day while the set of ARRI Ultra Primes is £375/day. No DP is going to get the Canons just to save £75 (just the sushi for the producer will cost more than that).
The same goes about cameras. I yet have to meet a producer/director (in the EU) that doesn't ask for ARRIs. And when you consider the AMIRA/AlexMini will rent for the same as a C700 (without the Codex) that's like zero chance for Canon. Also let's not forget an ARRIs camera cost/day as much or less than two PAs, making an insignificant dent to the overall production budget.
Canon is trying with the C700 to get into a very crowded market, dominated by ARRI with RED as the second player. With the specs and price points Canon is entering, nobody is going to bite IMO. Canon should perhaps address the more budget-constrained projects, but it certainly cannot when their products costs the same to buy/rent than the industry standards.
Grug
Veteran
The remarkable thing about DJI's little film, is that (at a couple of points) I forgot I was actually watching a film shot entirely with a drone camera.
That's incredible.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
The first Amira promo I thought was lame. You know it's bad right off the bat because it starts with a brewery promo (I wonder where Canon gets their ideas). And it's uploaded in 720p. The footage is all rather generic and not shot with much creativity or visual flair.
The Alexa Mini launch was real nice.
The Alexa Mini launch was real nice.
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