Canon 70d Has Aliasing Moire

[M. Gilden]

Actually, Canon camera sales are down 19% in qtr 2 with interchangeable lens cameras down 4%. 5DIII and 6D sales continue to grow probably due to FF crowd stills guys.

Sure, but that's likely related to camera sales in general. Affordable DSLRs had a big boom not too long ago, and it is slowly petering off as folks aren't really buying a new one every year. As the article you linked to states in the headline, Canon is still boasting #1 spot, despite also reporting slightly slower sales.
To be fair, that article is also quoting Canon as a company, which mostly includes still shooters and printers. If you were to look at strictly the prosumer DSLR market for video, the number and percentages change, but I think you'll find Canon is still very much the majority ruler whether they deserve to be or not.

Hard to tell what effect the latest ML hack had on the 5DIII continued growth, but it made quite a splash on the net when it happened.

Probably not much at all. The 5D is an extremely popular camera in their lineup, people would be buying it even if ML didn't exist. You have to remember to put things into perspective- A vast majority of 5Dm3 owners are likely photojournalists and wedding photographers who never even touched the video record button. We are a very small percentage of their market.

I'll probably purchase a 70D largely because of reasons you've already stated, I've got a lot of very nice Canon glass, so there I am. Maybe I'll slowly become a two system guy and start to buy into the GH3.

I use both regularly, both have strengths.

 

[joe 1008]

How much are the chances that the amount of moirė depends on the software? Does Canon have different beta cameras with different amounts of moirė? In short, how much the video quality is a marketing decision and could we have any last minute influence pointing and screaming at aliasing and moirė?

 

[Felipe Henao]

How much are the chances that the amount of moirė depends on the software? Does Canon have different beta cameras with different amounts of moirė? In short, how much the video quality is a marketing decision and could we have any last minute influence pointing and screaming at aliasing and moirė?

Is all marketing strategies, you pay more you get more, Canon has not realized that competence is giving more for less, that is why their sells are falling down.

 

[ROCKMORE]

Is all marketing strategies, you pay more you get more, Canon has not realized that competence is giving more for less, that is why their sells are falling down.

Canon is here today and will be here tomorrow, and long after we are gone.
You have a lot of choices for cameras. Obsessing on Canon's business practices, accomplishes about the same as trying to push an elephant. This is a forum for discussion and I must admit when the sparks are flying it's at least slightly entertaining.
If you need a camera you should look at the specs and buy the camera that does what you need it to do. Canon, Panasonic, Sony, BMCC, Nikon, Red, Gopro, etc. Cameras are what they are today, and will surely be outdated before you open the box. Look at the specs, look at the tests, then buy it or not.
I have a 60D, 600d, and have no dream that the 70D will offer anything more except double the price. I frequently rent a 5Dmk3, and would buy one, but with all the new cameras like BMCC, it's no longer an option for me.

If moire and aliasing are your complaints than you should be looking to mosaic AA filters.
The 60D is very cheap right now and will probably get cheaper.
http://store.mosaicengineering.com/VAF-60D-Moire-Aliasing-Filter_p_13.html
http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/60d.html
http://vimeo.com/58605095

If this solution doesn't suit your tastes than there are plenty more to pick from.

 

[pulpfiction007]

I think one option to look at on the 70D for moire free shooting (if you need a shot that includes a pattern which will bring it out) is the 3x crop mode. Very overlooked feature that was on the T3i and has returned on the 70D. Buy an ultra wide angle lens, turn on the crop....moire free shot.

 

[Felipe Henao]

I think one option to look at on the 70D for moire free shooting (if you need a shot that includes a pattern which will bring it out) is the 3x crop mode. Very overlooked feature that was on the T3i and has returned on the 70D. Buy an ultra wide angle lens, turn on the crop....moire free shot.

3X Is a good option, 90 mbs bit rate is another plus, Mosaic eng, is an option. How ever I'm sure if Canon will want they could release a clean image with the 70D.
Let see what the final release does, Is not time for games. probably the 7D mark II is worth to wait.

 

[ROCKMORE]

I'm sure if Canon will want they could release a clean image with the 70D.

Of course they can as they could have with the 6D.

 

[Samuel H]

If you want a clean image out of the sensor, you have to design the sensor so it gives you that. And something else will get a bit worse: you can't have it all. For the 70D, they thought the dual-pixel thing was more important (my guess: their real home for this sensor is the next-gen EOS-M). For the 6D, I think they were just aiming for a cheap part. It sucks that they pay nearly no attention to us. Luckily, others do...

 

[ROCKMORE]

It sucks that they pay nearly no attention to us. .

They are just protecting the more expensive line of cameras. They don't want a $3,000 image coming from a $1,000 unit

 

[Andrius Simutis]

It sucks that they pay nearly no attention to us.

They are just protecting the more expensive line of cameras. They don't want a $3,000 image coming from a $1,000 unit

Since I'm not feeling quite so cynical this morning, the other explanation is that they are serving their target market with this camera...stills photographers. They are also serving professional videographers with the C100 and C300, and they're serving the wedding & photojournalist market with the 5D3.
For a little perspective, you should go on the stills photographer forums and see all the cursing and grumbling about any video features on Canon cameras. Those guys think that Canon's making too many concessions to video at the cost of stills. If there was a headphone jack, they'd freak out and complain about the added cost of it.
Don't get me wrong here, I'd love to see every camera with every feature and have them all cost no more than $300, but that ain't gonna happen.

 

[Samuel H]

^ That is what I meant: they focus on stills photogs, because there is a very large number of them, and expect us to pay many times more $$$ to get what could be done by the same camera. As I said, luckily there are other options.

 

[f64manray]

I'm not sure saying Canon is focusing stills photographers is an accurate statement. This whole sensor redesign with dual pixel AF was geared to video. So, they are trying to lure more video guys to the 70D. It's just trying to do that while leaving off a basic feature like a headphone jack that make one scratch their head in bewilderment.

This new AF looks very promising. Now if they had a conquerable codec to the GH3 and a headphone jack, the 70D would be an incredible little cam. It's not like it's asking for to much at this price point obviously.

I don't know why as I have no evidence to hope for it, but I'm hoping the 7DII will address some of this. The rational part of me keeps saying that there's no logical way Canon will let a $1,300 outclass a $2K 7DII.

 

[ROCKMORE]

The rational part of me keeps saying that there's no logical way Canon will let a $1,300 outclass a $2K 7DII.

That is a rational statement. When you buy a car for example most every option is at an additional cost. Power windows are not included if you pay for crank windows and nobody complains.
"Outclass" is also a good word to use because it goes right to the heart of consumers thinking when faced with the choice of which unit to buy. It is normal in computer sales when you stand their and say to yourself, " If I spend just a wee bit more I can get a much faster processor and be in a whole different class. Dealers what you to spend more.
There is a class structure in every product line from the bottom to the top. If manufacturers include all options in the cheapest unit there would be no need to ever buy an expensive one. It may just be a headphone jack to us that costs little to include, but it may sway buyers of a more expensive camera to only buy the cheaper one. Now expand that to 100,000 camera sales over a period of time and the corporation takes a loss. If we were selling instead of buying, our thinking would be much the same.

 

[Samuel H]

This whole sensor redesign with dual pixel AF was geared to video.

I think it is because they want to try to go for the mirrorless market.
Yes, they did make some efforts to have AF in video work in a pleasant way, but I think what they're trying to do there is bring soccer moms to big sensor cameras.

 

[joe 1008]

I think what they're trying to do there is bring soccer moms to big sensor cameras.

That's why I was intrigued by this camera until the menace of aliasing showed up - shooting like a soccer mom with attitude!!! The web examples really looked promising, it must be cool to pull perfect focus by the tip of a finger - the only caveat was when people walked out of the frame and the focus snapped to the background. But maybe there will be a stop focus button or something like that.

 

[Andrius Simutis]

I'm not sure saying Canon is focusing stills photographers is an accurate statement. This whole sensor redesign with dual pixel AF was geared to video.

If you look at the way (non professional) people take photos now, you see that most of them are using a screen either on their smart phone or a point and shoot instead of the viewfinder. It's only sensible then that when Canon makes a camera intended for the consumer market that it should be able to shoot with a screen well. Meeting that need is the key motivation here. The 70D and the next EOS-M are designed to work the way their intended customers shoot. The fact that it works well for video is a nice plus, and they will capitalize on that of course, but don't mistake the result for the intent. I really don't think the 70D was designed to be the great video camera, just as the 5D2 wasn't either. The 5D3 and 1DC were clearly designed to be video friendly, while the rest were meant to fit certain photo price points and include video as an additional feature.

 

[markr041]

If you look at the way (non professional) people take photos now, you see that most of them are using a screen either on their smart phone or a point and shoot instead of the viewfinder. It's only sensible then that when Canon makes a camera intended for the consumer market that it should be able to shoot with a screen well. Meeting that need is the key motivation here. The 70D and the next EOS-M are designed to work the way their intended customers shoot. The fact that it works well for video is a nice plus, and they will capitalize on that of course, but don't mistake the result for the intent. I really don't think the 70D was designed to be the great video camera, just as the 5D2 wasn't either. The 5D3 and 1DC were clearly designed to be video friendly, while the rest were meant to fit certain photo price points and include video as an additional feature.

I think that Canon is increasingly thinking more about their cameras FOR video. How else would you explain a stereo mic, and full manual control of audio with even an optional limiter (not agc), plus an external mic port. And uncompressed PCM 48Hz 16-bit sampling for audio. On the EOS M! They could do more, and maybe are going too slow (as ML is revealing).

 

[Andrius Simutis]

I think that Canon is increasingly thinking more about their cameras FOR video. How else would you explain a stereo mic, and full manual control of audio with even an optional limiter (not agc), plus an external mic port. And uncompressed PCM 48Hz 16-bit sampling for audio. On the EOS M! They could do more, and maybe are going too slow (as ML is revealing).

It's not completely an either/or decision for Canon so you need to keep it in perspective. Yes, they are adding better video features because there is a minimum that needs to be met, but they aren't going to turn their mid level stills camera into a high end video camera because that's not the target market for that model. They include enough video features that a soccer mom or new parent can make a good video of their kids to wow Aunt Gladys, but Canon does not expect the 70D to be used for a feature film so they don't need to invest in every video feature that you'd want. Canon thinks you would be ill served as a video professional with a 70D, so you should buy a 1Dc or a C100 and not have any (or as many) complaints. For a hobbyist, the 70D does enough.

 

[Samuel H]

I'm a hobbyist, and the 70D is not good enough for me. My NEX-5N cost me a third as much a year ago. Assuming the image from the 70D image is similar to that from the 60D, as all info so far seems to indicate, my NEX has less aliasing/moire, similar DR and similar colors, and I can put a SpeedBooster in front of it so it becomes fullframe in terms of FoV, DoF and lowlight abilities. And let's not even talk about the D5200.
I guess you mean the uninformed hobbyist. Then I aggree, the 70D is a very good option for them.

(edit: sorry for the rant, I'm kind of losing my patience with Canon lately; if Magic Lantern wasn't there they'd be on their way out of the DSLR video world)

 

[lyrov]

I dont know what you guys have in mind when you re talking about professionals and hobbyists but I sure know that people still make money with DVXs...and my 600D is bringing money at home!!!
Really...what are you talking about?