Felipe Henao
Well-known member
Great except Moire
Canon 70d Has Aliasing Moire
- Thread starter Felipe Henao
- Start date
BobbyMurcerFan
Well-known member
Yeah, but the rolling shutter effect on the back of the bus is WAY cool! 
Yes it's pre-production model, but I haven't seen too many DSLRs that had this much moire and aliasing in the pre-production model, and then had all these defects fixed in the production model.
The moire seen in the Sony DLSRs and Panasonic GH3 pre-production cameras, stayed exactly the same in the final production models. So I have big doubts about Canon fixing this before September.
With the Canon 5D Mk3 it was image sharpness not moire. Image sharpness is very easy to fix in post. Moire is pretty much a permanent problem, unless you purchase one of the $300 Mosaic Engineering anti-moire/anti-aliasing sensor filters.
I honestly don't feel Canon has any reason to produce a low-cost high-performance video DSLR camera, when they have the 5D Mk3 and C100 territory to protect, which means we have to look elsewhere for a low cost video solution.
dustylense
Veteran
At least the moire seems to be grey luma and not the rainbow chroma. Kinda like the Gh2. I'm actually gonna keep and eye on this camera. Hopefully the production version cleans up just a tad. But I can see use for this camera and it's af mode...
mdifilm
Well-known member
Do what you like and must, but just no need to advertise your frustration any longer, we all know you do not like moire, let it go, don't be so grumpy that holds you back your creativity.
Danielvilliers
Veteran
For me the gh2 was my benchmark because its sharpness was good enough for me and compared very well to all the 1080p cameras in many test like the Zacuto shoot-out. Some people said at its launch that the D7100 was sharper than the D5200. But this I cannot verify if it is true or not.
So the first thing I did was to test the sharpness test between my benchmark gh2 and the D7100 because I knew already from people observation that the D7100 had superior DR and high ISO. I was surprise to see that they were that close. I tried to remove any variables and have posted test images at different in camera sharpness of both cam. Now I am waiting for my Ninja to come to do some side by side test of the hack gh2 vs high bitrate prores or dnxhd. Form some people account the D7100 hdmi recorded image is a little sharper than the internal codec. We will see, but last week I did some street shots with people etc and looked at it on my 50 inch plasma TV and it looked very good. It did not feel out of place against 1080p big screen movies.
Felipe Henao
Well-known member
What can I do feel frustrated, choose a looser and now I have to choose a winner, however I'll be happy again for sure there are options.
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)rogar-BigGrin(DBG)rogar-BigGrin(DBG)In terms of camera resolving power, if you can you should try using a high performance m4/3 lens on your Panasonic bodies. The smaller m4/3 sensor needs a high resolution m4/3 lens to achieve it's peak performance. ( Any of the Olympus premium prime m4/3 lenses: 12mm, 17mm, 45mm, 75mm, or the Panasonic 25mm, or the Panasonic premium zoom lenses: 12-35mm or 35-100mm would be a good match here )
I am sure that if I had used the same Tamron 17-50mm lens on the GH2 the video wouldn't have looked much different than the D5200 footage.
Danielvilliers
Veteran
I think he can advertise his frustration as much as he wants in this threat because he created it. He is in his right once he does not go to each and other threat on canon and voice his frustration, other people can either write back or just not read this threat.
For me it is understandable that someone who is a customer of one brand can feel frustrated when he has invested thousand of dollars in a system and that the said brand does not innovate or abandon the market. When you invest into Nikon or Canon for example, you re not just investing into the camera but a whole system that can cost much more than the camera itself. I felt the same 4 years ago when I had to buy a Canon 7d because Nikon was so lagging in video and then a gh2 because for me it was so much better with no alias/moire and higher resolution.
Now I will come back to Nikon for video because I feel it will meet my needs. It does not mean that I am not critical about the brand. I am still very frustrated by Nikon. They have a winner in core image quality with the D7100 but why no 60fps in 1080p even in short lets say 30 sec burst mode if the sensor might overheat, why no high internal bitrate like 50/100/200 mbit, why no 10 bit mode, why no log mode.... They thought that clean hdmi output was enough to sway the video world. It is a very good step but it was not bold enough, they should unleash all the power that they had under the hood of these sensors so that they would have captured all the headlines. When you see a camera like the D7100 passing under the radar, it is clear that their strategy is wrong.
Ok...a few thoughts here:
After I watched that review https://vimeo.com/71179151 from Johnnie Behiri, I felt a bit disappointed not really by the video itself, but from his statement that even ISO 1600 is unusable...!!!
The strange thing is that when I watched again the pizza video shot on 70D (with settings info) I felt the shots at 1600 and even 3200 ISO were just fine...at least for my standarts!
Of course I believe that Mr. Behiri is a much more reliable source to make conclusions from, than a canon promo video, Im just wondering if his findings were due to his BETA camera limitations..?
About moire, of course its there, but as I also commented in his review, I think its a bit limited comparing to the current models...
I will say again that this new AF system is really impressive and for what I do it can be VERY usable and may be enough reason for me to buy it...and lets not forget the 3x crop mode which is back...
I know there are many models and brands out there with even better video quality than the canons, but there are many practical reasons why some of us dont want to change brand
I just sold my 60D and was ready to preorder, but I ve decided to wait until the camera is out and get tested as a final production model...still have my 600D, so no reason for me to rush...
After I watched that review https://vimeo.com/71179151 from Johnnie Behiri, I felt a bit disappointed not really by the video itself, but from his statement that even ISO 1600 is unusable...!!!
The strange thing is that when I watched again the pizza video shot on 70D (with settings info) I felt the shots at 1600 and even 3200 ISO were just fine...at least for my standarts!
Of course I believe that Mr. Behiri is a much more reliable source to make conclusions from, than a canon promo video, Im just wondering if his findings were due to his BETA camera limitations..?
About moire, of course its there, but as I also commented in his review, I think its a bit limited comparing to the current models...
I will say again that this new AF system is really impressive and for what I do it can be VERY usable and may be enough reason for me to buy it...and lets not forget the 3x crop mode which is back...
I know there are many models and brands out there with even better video quality than the canons, but there are many practical reasons why some of us dont want to change brand
I just sold my 60D and was ready to preorder, but I ve decided to wait until the camera is out and get tested as a final production model...still have my 600D, so no reason for me to rush...
mdifilm
Well-known member
I do agree with you, I think it's how he present it is what got me lol I came here to learn and at times, instead of learning, I see posts that are sounding more like a fan boy's presentation on those tech forums I frequent. Eventually I frequent those forums less due to that sort of things.
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
Yeah, but to a point...there's a line that you cross where it just becomes straight up trolling, like if I were to post something like this:
Panasonic GH6 Has Video Look Small Sensor
Why Pansonic has small sensor? I frustrated that camera is so video looking and is plasticky small toy with no wide angles...
(insert bad video example possibly shot on Panasonic)
See? That would just annoy anyone who has a Panasonic and is doing good work with it. It doesn't really add to the discussion of the camera especially if it's speculation before the camera is released.
Felipe Henao
Well-known member
IS NOT Grey luma is the the same rainbow Moire just like the 6D, Check this video and pictures , seems like things got worst than the 7D , Mark II days
http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-eos-70d-moire-test-video-dicahub/
ROCKMORE
Veteran
Solid corporate financial strategy.
To cede the competitive edge to the GH3 & D7100 in the $1,200 segment by releasing a cam with worse (aliasing, moire) video IQ & no headphone jack is solid corporate financial strategy? I don't know for sure, but I would think that the $1,200 segment pushes far more volume and profit than the 5DIII and C100 segment.
As the brilliant minds at ML have pointed out with their latest hack, the Canon hardware is capable of great things. If not Canon, others will and are doing it. I don't see how watching customers drift away is a sound strategy. They just need to announce the 7DII already. I guess you were just being sarcastic, but I already wrote this.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
The bus video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JLLxsBStPY) is an absolute disgrace
But the new C5D one (https://vimeo.com/71287537) is actually pretty solid, so my guess is that the bus video was shot with sharpness cranked up.
Still early days, we'll soon know...
But the new C5D one (https://vimeo.com/71287537) is actually pretty solid, so my guess is that the bus video was shot with sharpness cranked up.
Still early days, we'll soon know...
Felipe Henao
Well-known member
Na Na Sam, Moire shows up all its splendor on wide angles. Canon keeps growing because, all we keep excusing their selfish decisions, while Pana and Nikon, keeps improving in order to capture Canon's customers.
Only our wallets will stop this madness.
Last edited:
M. Gilden
Canon DSLR Moderator
To cede the competitive edge to the GH3 & D7100 in the $1,200 segment by releasing a cam with worse (aliasing, moire) video IQ & no headphone jack is solid corporate financial strategy? I don't know for sure, but I would think that the $1,200 segment pushes far more volume and profit than the 5DIII and C100 segment.
As the brilliant minds at ML have pointed out with their latest hack, the Canon hardware is capable of great things. If not Canon, others will and are doing it. I don't see how watching customers drift away is a sound strategy. They just need to announce the 7DII already. I guess you were just being sarcastic, but I already wrote this.
Actually, Canon has a surprisingly strong brand in this market despite the arguably better-suited competition. I see colleagues of mine complaining about moire and aliasing ruining a shot, or complaining about combining their footage with a "real 1080p" camera (they have to soften the sharper camera to match the look of their Canon DSLR), and I politely ask them why they haven't switched to something like the GH2 already.
The response is usually a shrug... often they weren't aware that there WAS a decent alternative to their camera, and if they did they are reluctant to leave because Canon is a brand they know and trust. Ask a guy who is shopping for their first HDSLR what they want, and they will inevitably mention the 5D and 7D, because they are the staples of this market even today.
And that's great news for any corporation, but bad news for consumers; Canon knows they have the DSLR video market cornered and therefore does not really see Panasonic, Nikon, Sony, etc, as competitors in this space. And they don't really need to innovate because most people won't leave. But this doesn't make Canon evil, every company in their situation has done something similar (*cough* APPLE *cough*).
Me? I love my Canons, but I also carry around 2 GH2s in my gear bag.
I do hope Canon improves their future models soon though.
Actually, Canon has a surprisingly strong brand in this market despite the arguably better-suited competition. I see colleagues of mine complaining about moire and aliasing ruining a shot, or complaining about combining their footage with a "real 1080p" camera (they have to soften the sharper camera to match the look of their Canon DSLR), and I politely ask them why they haven't switched to something like the GH2 already.
The response is usually a shrug... often they weren't aware that there WAS a decent alternative to their camera, and if they did they are reluctant to leave because Canon is a brand they know and trust. Ask a guy who is shopping for their first HDSLR what they want, and they will inevitably mention the 5D and 7D, because they are the staples of this market even today.
And that's great news for any corporation, but bad news for consumers; Canon knows they have the DSLR video market cornered and therefore does not really see Panasonic, Nikon, Sony, etc, as competitors in this space. And they don't really need to innovate because most people won't leave. But this doesn't make Canon evil, every company in their situation has done something similar (*cough* APPLE *cough*).
Me? I love my Canons, but I also carry around 2 GH2s in my gear bag.
I do hope Canon improves their future models soon though.
Actually, Canon camera sales are down 19% in qtr 2 with interchangeable lens cameras down 4%. 5DIII and 6D sales continue to grow probably due to FF crowd stills guys. Hard to tell what effect the latest ML hack had on the 5DIII continued growth, but it made quite a splash on the net when it happened. A large portion of that 19% gutting was from smart phones taking over as people's primary compact camera. I'll probably pick up a Samsung S4 Zoom myself.
I'll probably purchase a 70D largely because of reasons you've already stated, but the lack of a headphone jack is irksome to no end. I've got a lot of very nice Canon glass, so there I am. Maybe I'll slowly become a two system guy and start to buy into the GH3.
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.u...sts-number-one-spot-but-demand-dips-worldwide