Interesting, will have to try that.
C500: C500 II an interesting little wrap up.
- Thread starter cyvideo
- Start date
chris f
Veteran
Jury is still out on what the C300MKIII's 4K Super 35mm sensor with DGO will look like compared to the C500MKII's 4K Cropped Super 35mm mode - there should be a difference that's beyond only on paper. I'm optimistic the C300MKII will look "better", but who knows (unless there is a great comparison video out there already? I'm a little out of the loop from my normal camera research obsession since there's a 0% chance I'm buying a new cam until production picks back up).
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Guest
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I never said I disagreed with you in the first place. but your original comment was "I think that for the most part, all cameras "clip hard"....or really...clipping is clipping, everything else "isn't clipping"." ...and I felt that was true, just a little misleading.
That is the beauty of working with gear you know. You learn how to get the best out of it and make it work for you.
owlbot
Active member
Oh wow that's very kind, I'm glad to hear he found it helpful!
Yeah you can shoot raw in any crop, you just can't shoot XF-AVC in 6K. S16 forces you to shoot 2K or HD, but in FF and S35 XF-AVC you've got 4K through HD
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G
Guest
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Well, more than helpful. He already owned the C500ii. He just thought it was a refreshing take on the old camera test. So many people get caught up in being accurate they never really show off what a camera can actually do, or what it all means. Somehow, I think you captured the imagination of the shooter.
G
Guest
Guest
Dude, you are often willing to make out landish jokes, but I wonder why people down vote your good posts. Baffles me. Like people don't read what you right. Although Canon announced PL versions of their Primes, I haven't seen any one selling them yet. A quick internet search reveals no immediate results of the PL versions. Sumire lenses have PL, but that isn't the CN-E.
Canon's official page for their full frame cine primes:
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/list/lenses/cinema/prime
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I was thinking the same thing. I think some people don't like my humor or what can come across as an uppity attitude at times so have taken a habit of down-voting my posts even if they aren't just joke posts as an uncharitable effort to discourage my posting. It would be cool if like FB, Instagram, etc., post voting wasn't anonymous as then people would be less likely to use it just to anonymously jab at someone. Let's hope they find better things to do than belittle people on the Internet who have never meant them any harm.
I don't recall the PL announcement, but yeah, I've never seen them. Seems pretty dumb of Canon to never release them in PL mount, especially since most of their cinema cameras are available in PL, even moreso with the easily switchable PL mount of the latest generation of Canon cameras.
Doesn't really bother me much, though, since all of my cameras can do EF mount and the locking EF on the Amira is quite solid. I've heard that the locking EF on the C500 Mark II is not as solid and robust as the Amira's locking EF mount. I wonder if anyone can confirm.
I'm considering getting some PL glass soon which would be the first PL lenses I'd own. I've only used PL lenses once and found changing lenses more finicky (and thus time consuming) than with locking EF, but perhaps more experience would speed up the lens change process. I wish the older generation Arri and current Canon mounts were easier to change out than the four screws needed for a change. Apparently the Sony F55 got it right for super fast mount changes (I believe it's just snapping in an EF or PL into the E-mount, but not entirely sure), and Arri's new LPL mount looks to be the same, simply snapping in a PL or EF mount while leaving the LPL mounted. At least Arri now has the EF mount available for the LF which was announced just a few weeks ago. Now they just need the Super35 firmware to make that camera fully functional. Last I talked to Arri I believe they said perhaps August for that firmware but nothing official. The C500 Mark II would certainly be a lot less functional if it didn't offer a Super35 mode.
PL glass will also be a bit more versatile if I get a C300 Mark III as it could then be used on both my Arris and my Canons as opposed to just my Arris. Then again, most projects calling for PL level glass would likely be Arri projects since I have Canon EF cinema primes and zooms, so it probably wouldn't make much difference. Still, nice to have the option. I wonder if the Canon cameras are capable of doing LPL; I see Panasonic, Sony, and Red have LPL mounts available but I haven't seen one that shows to work with C-series. I'm seeing a Canon R mount to LPL and Canon RF mount to LPL; I don't gather either of those would work with the C500 or C300.
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G
Guest
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Two or three reasons NOT to get PL immediately.
1: no wide spread auto focus solutions
2: the mount is not wide enough for future LPL lenses design for larger format sensors.
Which leads to #3 which means prices on s35 PL lenses may begin to go down in price.
1: no wide spread auto focus solutions
2: the mount is not wide enough for future LPL lenses design for larger format sensors.
Which leads to #3 which means prices on s35 PL lenses may begin to go down in price.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Well number two is kind of irrelevant if you're getting Super35 lenses, and secondly I don't believe that's true considering the Fujinon Premista is a PL full frame lens; they've mentioned possibly coming out with an LPL mount but nothing so far. I know LPL has some advantages with telecentricity, but PL still works well on full frame otherwise high end companies wouldn't be making full frame PL lenses. The Angenieux full frame primes also have an optional PL mount, and the full frame Sumires come in PL. Among many other full frame PL mount lenses - Cooke S7, Leitz, etc.
Auto-focus still hasn't really caught on for cinema use due to its limitations, and I'm not aware of PL lacking auto-focus in a way that LPL could do it (does LPL have an electrical connection that PL lacks?). In any case, there aren't any LPL auto-focus lenses out now. It'll be interesting to see auto-focus come to high end cinema lenses like the internally motorized Panavision lenses for the DLX2, which could probably have had autofocus without much more work considering they got the internal motor situation figured out. But I suspect we're still a good ways from high end cinema glass coming out and being mainstream with internal motors and auto-focus, along with the limited uses of auto-focus on those types of sets, so I don't see PL going away from awhile.
I also don't think Super35 is going to die. At the high end, I don't foresee Arri's rumored Super35 camera as being a dud, so I imagine that camera will rejuvenate Super35 for the high end when it comes out in 2021. Then again, in an ideal world you have a camera that has the choice of full frame or Super35, without compromise for both formats. Once Arri comes out with 4K Super35, it'll have an advnatage over the LF of being able to do 4K without needing to use a larger sensor size, while the LF will have the larger sensor for those who want that look. But I imagine a few years down the road, Arri will put the new 4K Super35 senor array in the LF 2 giving 6K FF or 4K Super35 like the C500 Mark II, and then there will no longer be an advantage to having the 4K Super35 version aside from a lower price point. But that's years away as the LF is still new.
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owlbot
Active member
Well that's good to hear haha. I've been a camera guy for the majority of my life whereas all this technical-centric stuff just came as a side-job a couple years ago.
I don't work for Filmtools necessarily, but since ProVideo Coalition (who I write for) and FT are both owned by Moviola, they asked if I could do some crossover content so every FT video you see me in has a complimentary article on PVC.
I'll have to ask Canon if they'll lend me one but we're pretty friendly so I don't see why not. I'm definitely interested!
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cyvideo
Veteran
Sorry stand corrected. Thanks for that. Will file it away in the memory banks.
Chris Young
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Guest
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Has more to do with the lenses that are specifically designed for digital sensors. larger format digital sensors will benefit from a wider lens mount (and of course the possibility of the shorter flange.)
Not saying they will go away, but why pay peak prices for s35 glass? lower prices won't matter if the timing is right for you. were it not for the pandemic, I don't think there would ever be a bad time to buy a lens.
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and a correction, I meant to say many news/rumor sites announced the Canon PL option in 2019. don't know why I said Canon announced it, as I don't recall reading any official announcement. good catch.
Most sites have eliminated down-voting/neg rep/dislike altogether. And I had gotten plenty of those on soccer forums talking about Freddy Adu too.
As to the auto-focus, my hunch is that, when it comes to the pro cameras, it will come as a combination AF and some sort of a zoom in one switch. Fuji - I think it was Fuji ... it may have been Tamron - showed one of their recent zooms having only magnetic motors, which allow the internal elements to slide up and down without any noise and very accurately.
Also, in a recent interview, the Olympus poobah mentioned that EM 1X needed two processors to control their AI enabled auto focus but EM1 MKIII can do it with one chip. New Sony and Canon cameras also have the AI/Machine Learning AF. The next step is likely to be in the Sony cinema zooms for FX-9, which will have both AF and manual adjustments. If that takes off, there'll likely be more follow ups.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
If post focusing capabilities like the Lytro camera ever make it to high end (and low end) cameras, that would be a game changing technology. Even watching big budget movies like Les Miserables, it's not uncommon to see an out of focus shot that distracts the viewer from the story. This would be more of a game changing tech for the high end than auto-focus. Auto-focus can't read the focus puller's mind, but post focusing can.
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Guest
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Yeah, I am kind of seeing the next Arri as the last great traditional sensor tech. Before we start going science fiction.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Oh, yea - a dream come true.
And there are a lot of missed focus shots in Hollywood. But with fast edits (and people not caring), it doesn't matter much.
But so many times the eyes are just a tad soft and I want to reach into the screen and nudge the lens one way or the other.
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Yeah. Was it you that pointed out that way out of focus shot in the Bad Boys for life trailer?