AC90: Barry's book?

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Barry - I bought your HMC150 book back in 2009. I'm ordering some stuff from B&H and have your HPX book in my cart, but the shipping is up to 14 days. Would it be quicker to purchase from you here?
 
so, if i understand it well, as long as a subject is further away than '40' i can zoom in / focus zoom out to desired frame, but -not- when a subject is closer? (in that case i still worry a bit.. it is my favorite and fail-safe method of focusing)

david
 
Yes, if they're at 40 or more, you should be able to zoom to both extremes and have the subject remain in focus. Well, to clarify, it might go a little out of focus during the zoom but snap back into focus when you stop zooming.
 
Barry_Green said:
...if the MF number changes as you zoom in, then that means it isn't able to focus that close.
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Barry, I don't understand what this means. I would think that if you are in MF, then the MF number would change unless you move the focus ring. Can the MF number actually change when zooming, without touching the focus ring?
 
Yes, if you've focused closer than the lens can actually achieve at that zoom level. You can focus down to MF40 when at full zoom, but the wider you zoom out the closer you can focus. If you had zoomed to Z50 and focused down to MF30, that's okay until you start zooming in. By the time you get to full telephoto the MF number will have gone up to MF40 because you cannot focus closer than MF40 at full tele.
 
Barry_Green said:
If you bought it from an authorized dealer, it absolutely should have been. If you bought it gray-market, then no, it won't be in the box. And, actually, the presence of the book is a pretty telling sign as to whether you have a legit US product, or gray market. It is included in every USA official unit. It is not included in any other territory's box.
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This "authorized" versus "unauthorized" and "gray market" versus "non-gray market" stuff has been built up and sang to a crescendo, so much so that really, nobody has got any clue any more which Panasonic dealer is "authorized" or "not authorized," let alone which one is participating in some promotion and which one is not. It is unconscionable for some of the equipment manufacturers to deny product warranty totally and designate the consumer as a pariah because he/she had purchased the camera from a "wrong" dealer/reseller.
 
Wow, hyperbole much?

1. Ask the dealer if they're authorized. Not so hard after all.
2. Every manufacturer has the same gray market problem. And nobody denies anybody warranty service; they just say that you have to return the camera to the territory where it's from, to get warranty service. Inconvenient? Yes, but that's the price you pay when you try to "save a few bucks" by buying gray market.
 
Barry_Green said:
1. Ask the dealer if they're authorized. Not so hard after all.

2. Every manufacturer has the same gray market problem. And nobody denies anybody warranty service; they just say that you have to return the camera to the territory where it's from, to get warranty service. Inconvenient? Yes, but that's the price you pay when you try to "save a few bucks" by buying gray market.
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I am not saying that a dealer/reseller would lie outright to a customer interrogating and pestering them if push comes to a shove, but really, if they sell a brand new, factory original, sealed box product -- I have no problem with them or the product. Particularly if it is not a stolen product they are selling to me and others. I as a customer am not engaged in international law enforcement activities, after all. That is somebody else's job.

As a customer, I have no "gray market problems," period. Like you said, some manufacturers might. That is their problem, then. But I guess the way they are solving it -- they deny warranty coverage for the product they deem to be "gray market" and/or purchased for a dealer/reseller who is deemed to be "unauthorized." Now, I heard about knock-offs and counterfeits but if the camcorder manufacturer had actually MADE the unit in question, and then by claiming that it being "gray market" and all that, they will not offer the manufacturer's warranty -- well, some of us might see something wrong with that "socking it too the little people" approach.

Looking at cameras/camcorders online, the listings usually do not indicate "gray market" or "not gray market," so I guess now the folks with the credit cards wanting to make the purchase will have to be Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watsons. Also, in an era where international travel is widely practiced it is amazing to me that a global company would refuse covered warranty service on their own product when a person has some problem with his/her camera while traveling outside the home country. Oh well, whatever.

 
Regarding gray market: I agree that the customer is not the person that should be at peril in this situation. It is the unscrupulous dealer who is the problem. Very few will tell you when something is gray market. B&H is an honest dealer and they will clearly list "gray market" on a product if it is gray, but the unscrupulous ones won't.

It would be ideal for the customer if every product came with a single worldwide warranty. That is what we all want. But, in today's world, that just doesn't happen. Every manufacturer, from Panasonic to JVC to Canon and Nikon and Fuji and Sony and Samsung and Sharp and GoPro, has regions and authorized dealers. So the gray market potential exists for all of them.

I just got annoyed by your post because you were singling out the one company who has tried to solve the issue the best way they can. One of the main reasons they include my books in the box is so that the customer can know, for a fact, that they are getting an authentic USA authorized product. And they have included that info in their ads. So the way I see it, if you want to complain about the situation, you shouldn't be lobbing bombs at the only company that is at least trying to solve the problem!
 
The problem with gray market is who pays. Will any of you work for free?

The manufacturer makes the item in country A. Then it opens lots of other companies in other countries and they distribute though local distributors.

So made in country A shipped to country B and supplied to distributor B1. All of who take a cut.

Distributor B1 sells the item at a big discount to some one in country C.

Now if it goes wrong and you take it to National office in Country C or distributor C1 neither of them have had any money from the sale (that all went to B and B1) So who do you expect to pay for the repairs and servicing? Some one has to. the accounts for Panasonic USA are separate to those for Panasonic UK or Panasonic Chile etc

So if you buy it from Distributor B1 that is where you have to send it back to.


Also National offices may do local offers. Nikon UK has a standard 2 year (Local) manufactures warrantee. However if you buy the camera from somewhere outside the UK (or gray market in the UK) Nikon UK only lets you have the 1 year warrantee. AFAIK Nikon USA won't look at it at all.

For Panasonic if you buy a legitimate USA supplied AC90 they throw in Barry's book. Not so for other National Panasonic offices. A pity :-(
 
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Barry_Green said:
Regarding gray market: I agree that the customer is not the person that should be at peril in this situation. It is the unscrupulous dealer who is the problem. Very few will tell you when something is gray market. B&H is an honest dealer and they will clearly list "gray market" on a product if it is gray, but the unscrupulous ones won't. It would be ideal for the customer if every product came with a single worldwide warranty. That is what we all want. But, in today's world, that just doesn't happen. Every manufacturer, from Panasonic to JVC to Canon and Nikon and Fuji and Sony and Samsung and Sharp and GoPro, has regions and authorized dealers. So the gray market potential exists for all of them.

One of the main reasons they include my books in the box is so that the customer can know, for a fact, that they are getting an authentic USA authorized product. And they have included that info in their ads. So the way I see it, if you want to complain about the situation, you shouldn't be lobbing bombs at the only company that is at least trying to solve the problem!
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I doubt a dealer/reseller is "unscrupulous" for selling something, well pretty much anything in the legitimate way of free commerce and free enterprise -- otherwise, we might as well live in a totalitarian Communist world. If the product being sold is not defective and not stolen -- what's the problem?

Also, who told Panasonic, JVC, Sony, et all that they have to use dealers or resellers to peddle their wares in the first place? Why not just sell them directly, from manufacturer to final user? I recently bought 2 on-camera monitors from SmallD -- they are the manufacturer of the product AND ALSO the seller of their own product. They pretty much guaranteed that the stuff I got is not "gray market" merchandise, he-he-he. Looks like the camera mfrs had set up the 1000 pound gorilla distribution system back in the good old days when everybody was making money head over heels, and now when this system is creaking, they sock it right back to the poor little customer.

Your book has probably got nothing to do with any of it, sorry, Barry. Everyone likes a nice free gift, but like one person commenting here, apparently he had gotten the AC90 from a USA source -- and there was no book in the box. Okay, so what does that mean? Did he just blew $2,000 in a rouge camera? The dealer was "unauthenticated" or a "rogue dealer" or a "non-participating" dealer, or maybe just that the camera came from someone else? Hard to grasp the "gray market" part, though -- say, something is built in Japan, would that item not be a gray market product anywhere else in the world BUT in Japan?

And yes, since people actually cross national borders with their camera gear lately, it would be nice if when you find yourself shooting with your precious camera someplace and the thing is under warranty coverage and you need some help, than you would not have to pay to the local Panasonic service center out of your own pocket for the work.

 
jagraphics said:
The problem with gray market is who pays. Will any of you work for free? The manufacturer makes the item in country A. Then it opens lots of other companies in other countries and they distribute though local distributors. So made in country A shipped to country B and supplied to distributor B1. All of who take a cut.

Distributor B1 sells the item at a big discount to some one in country C. Now if it goes wrong and you take it to National office in Country C or distributor C1 neither of them have had any money from the sale (that all went to B and B1) So who do you expect to pay for the repairs and servicing? Some one has to. the accounts for Panasonic USA are septette to those for Panasonic UK or Panasonic Chile etc So if you buy it from Distributor B1 that is where you have to send it back to.

Also National offices may do local offers. Nikon UK has a standard 2 year (Local) manufactures warrantee. However if you buy the camera from somewhere outside the UK (or gray market in the UK) Nikon UK only lets you have the 1 year warrantee. AFAIK Nikon USA won't look at it at all. For Panasonic if you buy a legitimate USA supplied AC90 they throw in Barry's book. Not so for other National Panasonic offices. A pity :-(
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Not quite following the reasoning here whateverso. Say, a camera is being MADE IN JAPAN. It is then by definition a foreign or "gray market" product in all countries of Planet Earth, save for Nipponland. So what? Unless it is a stolen product, it should be legitimate -- particularly is someone had actually purchased it from someone selling it, instead of stealing it, you know.

Your example with Nikon UK merely means that Nikon UK is blatantly violating the EU covenant about product warranty being valid and identical in all EU member countries.

When you buy an AC90 in the USA, you do not necessarily know whether it is a "legitimate" or "illegitimate" camcorder, do you? WHAT IF Barry's book was not part of the deal, then you would know this even less.

Seems to me Panasonic and the other fat cat/big fish Japanese conglomerates have set up a nice, cozy, comfy distribution system way back in the 1950s and 1960s, and now cannot cope with how the times are a-changing whatsoever. So, they are taking it out on the little people, a.k.a. consumers. Why don't they start selling the stuff directly to end users instead, like so many new, wonderful technology companies do? We just ordered a high-end HPZ820 workstation from HP. It will likely come from HP and be warranted for 3-years, so I am pretty sure it will not be a "gray market" computer from Albania. Using dealers and resellers merely means you are going to be paying a good 25 to 30 percent more for the product than you would have to otherwise with a direct sale.
 
frankoferko said:


I doubt a dealer/reseller is "unscrupulous" for selling something, well pretty much anything in the legitimate way of free commerce and free enterprise -- otherwise, we might as well live in a totalitarian Communist world. If the product being sold is not defective and not stolen -- what's the problem?
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Isn't the problem obvious? The dealers who do that are skirting the system. They're cheating their way into a game where they're not legitimate, authorized dealers. They could go through the proper channels, or they could cheat the whole system by buying a truckload of cameras out of Singapore or Panama or wherever, and selling them on to unsuspecting end users who have no idea that they're basically being cheated.

Also, who told Panasonic, JVC, Sony, et all that they have to use dealers or resellers to peddle their wares in the first place? Why not just sell them directly, from manufacturer to final user? I recently bought 2 on-camera monitors from SmallD -- they are the manufacturer of the product AND ALSO the seller of their own product. They pretty much guaranteed that the stuff I got is not "gray market" merchandise, he-he-he. Looks like the camera mfrs had set up the 1000 pound gorilla distribution system back in the good old days when everybody was making money head over heels, and now when this system is creaking, they sock it right back to the poor little customer.
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Okay, now you're starting to fade in credibility here. If you can't tell the difference in the distribution model between a tiny monitor manufacturer and the international behemoth consumer electronics makers, there's not much point in continuing the discussion. Question -- have you even visited a professional products reseller? Have you ever visited Abel, or Specialized Communications, or B&H, or Platts, or any of the hundreds of pro video dealers across the country and in fact around the world? If you don't see the value of having those dealerships, well, that's your perspective, but many many people do. And the companies love having competent, qualified, intelligent, supporting dealerships. What none of the companies like is a "box house", an internet vendor that just shovels product out the door at the cheapest possible price. They like having dealers that support their customer. These are professional products intended for professional users, after all, not some trinket that you buy off QVC or Amazon (even though, yes, I know you CAN buy products like these at Amazon, but that doesn't make it a good idea!)

Maybe you're right, maybe in this interconnected society maybe there's no need for dealers and maybe everybody should be buying direct from the manufacturer, like Red or SmallHD. But I cannot say the world will be a better place for it, if it comes to that.

Your book has probably got nothing to do with any of it, sorry, Barry.
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Sorry, but -- it's been a rather successful promotion and over the years it's been highly effective. I've even received calls from the Brooklyn scam houses trying to buy my books directly, so they could stuff it in the box, because people were aware enough to ask if the book was included. Needless to say, I didn't sell to the scam houses.

Everyone likes a nice free gift, but like one person commenting here, apparently he had gotten the AC90 from a USA source -- and there was no book in the box. Okay, so what does that mean? Did he just blew $2,000 in a rouge camera?
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What it means is that he knew immediately he had received a gray market product, which he didn't want because he wanted the legitimate version, and he called the dealer back and made them take it back. So, contrary to your assertion, in fact the book promotion worked exactly as it was supposed to, and the customer, rather than being stuck with a gray market product, was able to rectify it and get a legitimate unit.

Hard to grasp the "gray market" part, though -- say, something is built in Japan, would that item not be a gray market product anywhere else in the world BUT in Japan?
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Ah, well, now we get to the meat of it. You don't understand what gray market is, and that's why you have the confusion. All the products are made in Japan, and they are packaged and sold by the factory to marketing companies in each territory of the world. That marketing company is tasked with marketing those products to their local territories, in their local currencies, and doing advertising and promotions within those territories and with providing warranty service within those territories. Gray market is when someone from territory A buys a product that was packaged and sold in territory B. In that case, territory B received the sales dollars and is responsible for providing the warranty coverage. But if the person who bought it takes it to territory A for warranty service (which means that the marketing company has to pay for the repair), they're going to say -- hey, we didn't sell this, we didn't get paid for this, so we're not going to fix this. Take it back to where you got it from." Territory B will honor the warranty, but now you have to ship it to them -- and who knows who they even are? Did it come from Canada? Did it come from the Middle East? Did it come from Japan? Who knows?

Basically it comes down to this -- there's a right and proper way to do things, and there's a "cheating the system" way to do things. If you want your life easier and less hassle, don't try cheating the system, just do things the right way. Especially when you're talking about a product that you're using to make your livelihood.

And yes, since people actually cross national borders with their camera gear lately, it would be nice if when you find yourself shooting with your precious camera someplace and the thing is under warranty coverage and you need some help, than you would not have to pay to the local Panasonic service center out of your own pocket for the work.
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That would be nice, yes. It sure would be nice if they'd set up some sort of inter-territory voucher system or something. I have proposed that to them repeatedly.
 
frankoferko said:


When you buy an AC90 in the USA, you do not necessarily know whether it is a "legitimate" or "illegitimate" camcorder, do you?
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If you buy from an authorized dealer, you certainly do, and you have the might of the manufacturer to back you up if, for some reason, the authorized dealer did somehow get you an illegitimate version.

If you buy from Jim Bob's Camcorder Emporium And Tackle Shop, then -- no, you're on your own.

There's that whole "caveat emptor" thing, y'know?

Seems to me Panasonic and the other fat cat/big fish Japanese conglomerates have set up a nice, cozy, comfy distribution system way back in the 1950s and 1960s, and now cannot cope with how the times are a-changing whatsoever. So, they are taking it out on the little people, a.k.a. consumers.
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Really? Seems to me there's a long-established and functional distribution system that's been around for SIX DECADES (to use your numbers) and one of the little people here can't figure out how it works.

Why don't they start selling the stuff directly to end users instead, like so many new, wonderful technology companies do?
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Because that would mean the death of the professional video dealer network. And they (and Sony and JVC and every other manufacturer that uses professional dealers) are in none too big of a hurry to do that. Like I said before, it may come to that, but I don't think the world will be better off for it.

Using dealers and resellers merely means you are going to be paying a good 25 to 30 percent more for the product than you would have to otherwise with a direct sale.
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Really? That's the ONLY thing a professional video dealer means to you, is someone screwing you out of an additional 25 to 30 percent? If that's your idea of what a dealer is, then yeah, we're not going to see eye to eye at all on that.

Again, maybe you're right, maybe the world only wants Wal-Mart and Amazon to exist, and they don't care about service and support and training and being able to go into a place and try out the gear and get loaners and all that stuff. It's happened before; Apple used to use computer dealers, but they abandoned that model. Heck, brick and mortar stores in general are struggling to survive in any capacity. So maybe all the dealers will vanish, and the world of professional video will transform into an Amazon-style experience where you don't see the product, you don't touch it, you don't try it out, you just click "buy now" and it shows up from UPS. Some people would love that, I guess.
 
Barry_Green said:
If you buy from an authorized dealer, you certainly do, and you have the might of the manufacturer to back you up if, for some reason, the authorized dealer did somehow get you an illegitimate version.

If you buy from Jim Bob's Camcorder Emporium And Tackle Shop, then -- no, you're on your own.
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Amazon is an authorized seller who sell gray products by listing them as an Amazon item with Amazons return policy, but fulfilled by another vendor. Their hand in the sale makes you assume it's legitimate. In this case Panasonic should revoke their Authorized Dealer Status. This back door way to sell gray market products hurts Panasonic and the consumer. Many never realize it's gray market until they have a problem since the product descriptions never mention it's not U.S.
So here is case where Panasonic has influence
 
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