AF100 / AF101 - initial report

John Twigt reported at DVifo.net http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-avccam-camcorders/483643-panasonic-ag-af100-online.html:

I spoke Jan Crittenden today at the IBC (just around the corner from my company) and she said the list-price would be around 5.000 Us dollars (without lens). Seems very competitive indeed, at least to me.
Shipping will start in december according to her.

I played a bit with the prototype (with a Zeiss Prime 35mm lens, very nice indeed!) and his a good low light performance, it actually will have a sort of ISO value setting, (different from the normail gain settings) but it was not yet implemented on this prototype. (just 70% finished Jan said) Image on the monitor was very good and sharp as hell with a amazing depth of field (also with apertures around t8)
 
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Vitaliy Kiselev said:
Possible improvements are:
1) Changing pixel binning mode. Like 1D FIR with long window.
2) Adjusting source frame size to be as close as possible to 1920x1080.
3) 720 modes can be made by downscaling using very good bilinear filtering logic in LSI from 1920 RAW source.

With about 90% probability all tree improvements are implemented.

I do not mention that they could set new AA filter :-)
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Thanks, Vitaliy, I wasn't aware of GH1 working mode and, yes, aliasing could be strongly reduced by combining multiple filtering methods at the very top of the video processing chain.
agcohn said:
If the sensor can't do standard 1080/60p, I'm not sure how it can do 1080/24p @ 60 fps VFR, unless it's some sort of burst mode that it can't keep up for long.

Can we confirm that it isn't just uprezzing the 720p VFR modes for 1080p?
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Uprezzing is what I was afraid of... But it would be a joke!...
Barry_Green said:
Secondly -- does it really matter? If you get 1080p resolution with practically no aliasing, do you care if it does it through line skipping, or scaling, or osmosis, or refraction, or teleportation, or black holes and time travel? I don't. I just want a great sharp problem-free 1080p image. So far it looks like it delivers that. If it does it through line-skipping, then they do a darn good job of line-skipping.
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LOL...You're right, Barry, the end justifies the means.
Did you checked for strobing in progressive modes (24p, 30p)?
It would be great if AF100/101 progressive wasn't as jerky as in Hmc151...
 
timbook...please read the whole thread...i'll paraphrase....

no kit lens. will be sold body only.

sensor will not be bigger. just newer.

also, price drops are nonexistent, since it's not available, but since only a Euro price has been announced officially, expect it not to drop.
 
Steve Kahn said:
On a side note: Any word about a full frame sensor camcorder from Canon? I can't believe they are going just to give away this market.
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Then you don't know Canon very well. Canon will probably do it sometime around 2012 or 2013. Look at their XF300 series -- they just now finally introduced a tapeless pro camcorder -- FIVE YEARS after Panasonic did. Canon always trails the others by at least two years. They just had their big once-every-five-years Global Expo, and there was not a hint of any large-sensor video camera.
 
gandalfrodo said:
Any word if they're designing an optional manual/servo zoom lens that could be attached or if there are any good options out there already that won't break the bank?
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Panasonic Broadcast doesn't make lenses. They offer Fujinon and Canon lenses. The Lumix lens is coming from the consumer group. I doubt there will be any servo-driven lenses for the AF100.
 
bgundu said:
can the second SD slot do redundant backups?
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I don't think so. I think it's just for relay recording. I have begged them and hassled them and threatened them and kicked them in the shins to give us simultaneous recording, but I don't think it's gonna happen. But then again, we're still at 70%, we won't know for sure until they get to 100%. But I'm not counting on it.
 
dcloud said:
any sample screenies & footies soon?
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Not really any point, because it's not ready yet. It's all prototype. They want to put their best foot forward.

The german stuff does look pretty good and they're showing it in the booth, I'll have to ask 'em if they plan on releasing it, but I wouldn't count on it. I'm sure they will want to go through a few more prototype stages before they publish footage.
 
Chris Light said:
sorry for your embarrassment, but i laughed at this story.:embarasse
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Hey, so did I, and so did everyone else in the room. It was profoundly awesome. I was all "And, it has this excellent SDI port" - pry - clunk - uh-oh - "er, well, it would have one, if this was an actual camera. Instead, this is a mockup, and I just broke it." Sigh.
:)
 
timbook2 said:
I dont know if its been said but is the AF100 coming with some kit lens?
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No lens will be offered with it, at least not at this point. Who knows if they'll make a bundle with the GH1 lens or not?

And did I read right? the sensor is NOT the same as in the GH1 ??? its bigger???
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The sensor is definitely not the same as the GH1. All the fixed-pattern noise and vertical streaking are GONE, the noise performance is better, it's just better in all ways. But the sensor is the same size as the GH1; it's not bigger than the GH1's, but both the AF100 and GH1 sensors are bigger than the standard Four Thirds chip. They're about 19mm wide, instead of the Four Thirds standard of 17.3mm.
 
philiplipetz said:
John Twigt reported at DVifo.net http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-avccam-camcorders/483643-panasonic-ag-af100-online.html:

I spoke Jan Crittenden today at the IBC (just around the corner from my company) and she said the list-price would be around 5.000 Us dollars (without lens). Seems very competitive indeed, at least to me.
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Um, I don't know about that. It's "about" 5,000 Euros, but I don't know that the US version will be 5,000 dollars! 5,000 Euros is about 6,000 US dollars (give or take) and they've always said "under $6,000". But I will ask.

it actually will have a sort of ISO value setting, (different from the normail gain settings) but it was not yet implemented on this prototype.
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Actually how it will work is that the AF100 has the FILM CAM/VIDEO CAM menu item, just like the HPX170/HVX200. So when you choose FILM CAM, you get selectable ISO. When you choose VIDEO CAM, you adjust gain in dB.

Image on the monitor was very good and sharp as hell with a amazing depth of field (also with apertures around t8)
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Yep. And that's with a lens with a focal length of just 35mm. It gets insane when you use an 85mm lens at f/1.4.
 
Faust said:
Did you checked for strobing in progressive modes (24p, 30p)?
It would be great if AF100/101 progressive wasn't as jerky as in Hmc151...
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Strobing in progressive is exactly the same as any other progressive camcorder or film camera. 24p on an AF100 strobes exactly the same as 24fps film.

Well, actually, it is very slightly different (in a better way) because when the background is out of focus, the effect of the strobing is slightly smoothed over, versus when it's crisply in focus. So if you had 35mm film at f/16, and an HMC150, they'd strobe exactly the same. But if the 35mm film was at f/4 and the HMC150 was at f/4, you might be a little less bothered by the strobing on the 35mm because the background would be softer.

That's the working theory anyway. Someday I'll do a split-screen side-by-side and test that out, but I think it makes sense.
 
Barry_Green said:
Strobing in progressive is exactly the same as any other progressive camcorder or film camera. 24p on an AF100 strobes exactly the same as 24fps film.
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Barry, there's a different kind of strobing that is inherent to all the DLSR's I've shot with. It's not the strobing that I see with standard 25P shooting on my Varicam or SDX900. It's a weird "intraframe" strobe or stutter that happens when you pan the DSLR camera. I've seen it evident from the Canon 7D to the GH1. I suspect it is a CMOS or processing issue where there is just not enough DSP power to process the real time video; or it may just be a scanning speed issue with the CMOS itself.

Because of this, I like to keep the subject pretty static in the frame and avoid too much tilt/panning. Have you noticed the difference between these DSLR's and your HPX500 or HVX200? To me it's like night and day. It's not a deal breaker and I will be first in line for an AF100 regardless, but I hope the "intraframe" strobing effect of the GH1 is not duplicated here in the AF100.

Several of my DOP colleagues agree it is different from the strobing you see in broadcast 2/3" progressive scan cameras, but it is definitely there.
 
Hey Barry,

Question (Sorry if you have covered this). With the size of the sensor in the AF-100 what are the full range of lenses or should I say mount types (PL, Bayonet, etc.) that can be used on it. I've read threads about the using machined Fujion and other really cool fast lenses on the GH1. Will these type of mods prove useful with the AF-100.


powervideo said:
Barry, there's a different kind of strobing that is inherent to all the DLSR's I've shot with. It's not the strobing that I see with standard 25P shooting on my Varicam or SDX900. It's a weird "intraframe" strobe or stutter that happens when you pan the DSLR camera. I've seen it evident from the Canon 7D to the GH1. I suspect it is a CMOS or processing issue where there is just not enough DSP power to process the real time video; or it may just be a scanning speed issue with the CMOS itself.
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Hey powervideo,

Is this what your talking about when you speak of strobing? Here is a video I shot directed that ended up giving me a weird strobe effect but I actually liked for this video so I kept it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5mpJ3eonYo
 
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