4K will require hardware update

Dear Sony, when did you know that a hardware update was required? Why did you wait until NAB 2013 to announce this? How many days, weeks, or months worth of orders did you take from customers from which you were withholding vital information?
 
Sony hasn't given any information about what the upgrade costs, Juan in his video says as low as possible. Whatever has happened i bet it wasn't planned, it must be difficult to plan for future recording devices way back when the 700 was designed. So i will cut some slack pending the nitty gritty details and timelines.

I can't think of another camera that has received the potential of such a huge difference in output, from 8bit 1080p to (perhaps) 12bit 4K.

I do wish perhaps there was some official word from Sony about the plans. If there's one thing they're guilty of it's lack of information.

cheers
Paul
 
Kraut69 said:
Sony advertised the FS-700 as 4K ready, and it is not 4K ready if it requires a hardware upgrade. I wonder if they gave Convergent Design the go ahead simply because it allows Sony a legal technical out on their original marketing promise, because the Convergent Design solution doesn't require a hardware upgrade. Otherwise it is a good excuse for a class action lawsuit.
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Dear Friends,

Before our Odyssey7Q can be used with a FS700 in the 2K Raw, 240 fps continuous mode, not the limited duration mode, then the FS700 must have the Sony hardware/firmware update.

The same applies to recording 4K from the FS700, using our Odyssey7Q, the hardware/firmware update must be performed.

But, our Odyssey7Q will not need the Sony Interface unit, just a single HD-SDI 3G Cable from the back of the updated FS700 to our Odyssey7Q.




I do not know what is involved in the hardware upgrade, and I do not know what the final cost of the hardware/firmware will be.

Nor do I know what has caused the hardware upgrade. I did listen carefully to Juan's public remarks which stated that they are improving the camera in another area, other than what would be required just for 4K (If I understood his remarks correctly).

I do know that Sony is attempting to reduce the cost of this upgrade to what I consider a very reasonable amount.

I can't speak for Sony but I know that they are working to make this upgrade at a low cost.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
I'd love if the hardware update replaced the sensor with one that had Phase Detection pixels, like my NEX 5r, i'd love that! Okay, i'm just making up wishes now, but i'd love to have faster AF without having to use the LA-EA2 adapter (which is big and sucks up some of the light!) I wonder if it's even possible? :cheesy:
 
epsom salt said:
ok let me try to be more clear about my opinion on the subject. i personally love the camera's look and the slowmotion at it's current rez. and for me the ever changing time frame on 4k raw isn't really the issue either. my gripe is that i was sold something that had all the needed hardware to steam a 4k signal and would only require a downloadable firmware update to unlock.... and now we've all found out that this was in fact fluff. no offence but how is that difficult to understand?


The 3G/HD-SDI port will get expanded capability when a future firmware upgrade is available (not included). This will allow 4K output via the BNC as a data stream, which can be recorded to an optional Sony 4K recorder.
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Well not really, you were always going to need a 4K recorder and that was always going to be a substantial cost. So as a percentage of what it would cost you to get a 4K output recorded, the sony firmware/hardware upgrade could be peanuts by comparison. You're into high end SSDs, high end recording hardware. The Sony solution for their entire range of cameras is pretty substantial.

No one seriously thought that whacking a $300 shuttle recorder on the back would work for 4K recording?

But conversely this upgrade is going beyond just enabling 4K and seems to be offering additional codecs and slog support!

And Sony have opened up to CD and allowed a third party to integrate at quite a deep level where they could have stuck by the letter of what they said and forced you into a Sony 4K recorder as per your quote.

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
But conversely this upgrade is going beyond just enabling 4K and seems to be offering additional codecs and slog support!

And Sony have opened up to CD and allowed a third party to integrate at quite a deep level where they could have stuck by the letter of what they said and forced you into a Sony 4K recorder as per your quote.

cheers
Paul
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If I have to pay for a firmware / hardware upgrade that only allows 4K, I won't be happy. But if they do throw in a better internal codec of at least 4:2:2 50mbps, I will be pretty happy about that. Seems like the FS700 needs the better internal codec (Broadcast friendly) to compete with all the new, much cheaper cameras with better or equal codecs like the BMC and even the 6x cheaper GH3. Not only that, but Sony needs a PR move because this 4K thing has been nothing but confusion and taking way too long; and does not make Sony look good.

This is probably old news to you all, but have you guys read this article on XAVC?

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/04/sony-expands-xavc-s-consumer-4k/

A highlight of the article states: "Sony is opening up its efficient 4K XAVC codec— native to the F5 family — to the consumer as well as the prosumer."
 
Chad N said:
I'd love if the hardware update replaced the sensor with one that had Phase Detection pixels, like my NEX 5r, i'd love that! Okay, i'm just making up wishes now, but i'd love to have faster AF without having to use the LA-EA2 adapter (which is big and sucks up some of the light!) I wonder if it's even possible? :cheesy:
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i dot need phase detection, BUT i WOULD LOVE the GLOBAL Shutter! that would be an awesome update! it probably would kill BM 4k cam. I think Red now developed new mounts that give global shatter some how...


i only hope that that hardware upgrade will allow for CD to go beyond the 30 frames in 4k!
 
gene_can_sing said:
If I have to pay for a firmware / hardware upgrade that only allows 4K, I won't be happy. But if they do throw in a better internal codec of at least 4:2:2 50mbps, I will be pretty happy about that. Seems like the FS700 needs the better internal codec (Broadcast friendly) to compete with all the new, much cheaper cameras with better or equal codecs like the BMC and even the 6x cheaper GH3. Not only that, but Sony needs a PR move because this 4K thing has been nothing but confusion and taking way too long; and does not make Sony look good.
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I'm talking to some tech/sony folk at the moment about some other issues but i'm also seeing whether there's any more info out there that's available now.

I agree, i've always maintained that higher bit depth is the number one requirement for me, although to counter that i've spent a lot of time working with the footage in a lot of detail and i would acquire at 4K to downsample to 2K 444. At the end of the day if Sony open up what the sensor is capable of then i'd like to take advantage of that if the cost isn't too bad.

You never know perhaps they're replacing the ADC to give more range off the sensor.

cheers
Paul
 
Dan Keaton said:
I do not know what is involved in the hardware upgrade, and I do not know what the final cost of the hardware/firmware will be.
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Dan, if I were you I would be concerned that a hardware upgrade that makes Sony's recorder work could also make your recorder not work.
 
NextWaveG said:
Why? Sony has officially supported the Odyssey7Q.
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You mean Sony has officially supported CD like Sony has officially supported their customers? Yep, no chance of getting burned. Until Sony freezes their design, going ahead with the production of the 7Q is a gamble as it relates to FS-700 customers.
 
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Kraut69 said:
Dan, if I were you I would be concerned that a hardware upgrade that makes Sony's recorder work could also make your recorder not work..
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That doesn't even make sense. The RAW format is Sony's proprietary. Sony doesn't have to go through all that trouble to ditch Odyssey7Q. They can just cancel their licensing if they were ditching Odyssey7Q. But that's not what is happening. Sony themselves were showing off Odyssey7Q at NAB. The hardware upgrade is required on FS700 before it can output RAW. That part doesn't have anything to do with Odyssey7Q or Sony recorder.






 
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Kraut69 said:
Sony advertised the FS-700 as 4K ready, and it is not 4K ready if it requires a hardware upgrade. I wonder if they gave Convergent Design the go ahead simply because it allows Sony a legal technical out on their original marketing promise, because the Convergent Design solution doesn't require a hardware upgrade. Otherwise it is a good excuse for a class action lawsuit.
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Kraut69 said:
Dan, if I were you I would be concerned that a hardware upgrade that makes Sony's recorder work could also make your recorder not work.
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Dear Kraut69,

The Sony hardware/firmware upgrade is what enables our recorder and Sony's interface and recorder to work.

We have been working with Sony on this for quite some time now, before the FS700 was announced.

We have a great relationship with Sony, their intention is to work with us so that our recorder can be used.

And no, Sony does not dictate our prices.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
"That's interesting. It means Sony knew last year that the camera would need hardware upgrade."

Dear Evitthought,

Actually, the necessitity of the hardware upgrade is a rather new development.

I do not know why the hardware upgrade is necessary, or what specifically the hardware upgrade does, but we only found out recently that this was required.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
With all due respect the hardware upgrade could be something as simple as a capacitor change or similar mod, or jumper. I don't know why so many here are so hard on this company.
They erred on the side of too little info but, all things considered, I would tend to cut them some slack until the final info is in....
All I know is that I am getting gorgeous images out of this camera even at 1080 so I have no reason to complain. Considering I almost bought a Panasonic AF100 I am convinced I made the right decision.
 
ksteiger said:
With all due respect the hardware upgrade could be something as simple as a capacitor change or similar mod, or jumper. I don't know why so many here are so hard on this company.
They erred on the side of too little info but, all things considered, I would tend to cut them some slack until the final info is in....
All I know is that I am getting gorgeous images out of this camera even at 1080 so I have no reason to complain. Considering I almost bought a Panasonic AF100 I am convinced I made the right decision.
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+1
and kudos to C-D for their continuing leading edge philosophy. On another note, people seem to love their conspiracy theories. I've sent my EX1 in to Sony, in the past, for firmware upgrades. It's a painless process that happens quickly.
 
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