I do not think it was a stop gap. It was an updated model just like cars are updated almost every year. Some really nice features for me. USB power for long shoots, internal AND simultaneous external 10bit recording nice red border for recording just like my GH5S now. Just too much difference to trade my GH5. For others the streaming is a very unique feature to them in the way they have done it. With the new firmware it can also now just fit into their other model ranges for multicam streaming. Just because it does not have wonderful continuous autofocus at 24P does not mean it will not appeal to a lot of people. As far as I can tell from some of the tests autofocus at 60P is good. Not all the world is fixated on 24P. I for one never shoot other than 60P. If you are going to show in the cinema then 24P is fine but for PC, TV etc 30 is a better slow frame rate anyway and you can get that from 60P AND get your continuous autofocus better I expect from all cameras.
GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?
- Thread starter filmguy123
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I do not think it was a stop gap. It was an updated model just like cars are updated almost every year. Some really nice features for me. USB power for long shoots, internal AND simultaneous external 10bit recording nice red border for recording just like my GH5S now. Just too much difference to trade my GH5. For others the streaming is a very unique feature to them in the way they have done it. With the new firmware it can also now just fit into their other model ranges for multicam streaming. Just because it does not have wonderful continuous autofocus at 24P does not mean it will not appeal to a lot of people. As far as I can tell from some of the tests autofocus at 60P is good. Not all the world is fixated on 24P. I for one never shoot other than 60P. If you are going to show in the cinema then 24P is fine but for PC, TV etc 30 is a better slow frame rate anyway and you can get that from 60P AND get your continuous autofocus better I expect from all cameras.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I agree. Not a stop gap at all. It may seem that way to the culture of want new shiny things now but the GH5 was already a solid camera that was still selling. Panasonic made it better in a way that could not be done with just firmware. Now they have a GH5 that will continue to sell and they can continue to update beyond what the older processor and firmware could handle.
Not every user is going to need a GH6. Just like not every Canon user needs a R3, R5 or R6 when the R does everything they need. For many the GH5 is a solid 4k 60p camera that never fails or overheats. It just does what it is asked to do. The 10bit 4:2:2 is already at a peak of image quality that is only really surpassed by raw video. This puts the new GH5 as a solid option for those that want a professional hybrid camera that can kind do it all minus the low light part. Even then not everybody is bothered by the sensitivity of the GH5. Not everyone attempts to shoot in the dark which is really how it should be for professional work. I have never done a single paid production in 25 years without some kind of lighting to help out. Minus some weddings of course but even the darkest venue has some level of lighting in it. Focal reduced f2.8 zooms more than compensate for most poor lighting situations.
Once the GH6 comes out the GH5 mk2 will still be a big seller current model as it should be.
Not every user is going to need a GH6. Just like not every Canon user needs a R3, R5 or R6 when the R does everything they need. For many the GH5 is a solid 4k 60p camera that never fails or overheats. It just does what it is asked to do. The 10bit 4:2:2 is already at a peak of image quality that is only really surpassed by raw video. This puts the new GH5 as a solid option for those that want a professional hybrid camera that can kind do it all minus the low light part. Even then not everybody is bothered by the sensitivity of the GH5. Not everyone attempts to shoot in the dark which is really how it should be for professional work. I have never done a single paid production in 25 years without some kind of lighting to help out. Minus some weddings of course but even the darkest venue has some level of lighting in it. Focal reduced f2.8 zooms more than compensate for most poor lighting situations.
Once the GH6 comes out the GH5 mk2 will still be a big seller current model as it should be.
NorBro
Major Contributor
On a related note, Panasonic recently released their "Shapes" video to promote their new L-mount lenses, which are actually growing nicely, especially with the new 24mm in the lineup.
It's a creative video - but, in typical Panasonic fashion, they shoot the video in 30p, upload it in HD (who knows, maybe even shot it in HD), and it's hunting for focus in a few shots. (Now granted it's a fast cut and normal people would never notice, but still...and I'm not even going to comment about some of the exposure.)
It's a creative video - but, in typical Panasonic fashion, they shoot the video in 30p, upload it in HD (who knows, maybe even shot it in HD), and it's hunting for focus in a few shots. (Now granted it's a fast cut and normal people would never notice, but still...and I'm not even going to comment about some of the exposure.)
I did look into trading my GH5 for the GH5M2. Unfortunately the trade in was $600 so it would have cost about $1450 plus tax here in Canada. That is just $300 less than buying a Pocket 4K. So for another $300 I could have 3 cameras ! I just decided to wait and see what comes in the next little while but I like the GH5M2 as an upgrade to my GH5. But a Pocket 4K Pro maybe a better solution for me and keep my GH5 as well ? A Pocket 8K would be even better but at much greater cost I am sure since I would need lenses I do not have for Super 35 . All my lenses are MFT.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
It sure seems like everyone finds situations where they appreciate the high base iso of fx6 or a7siii
I was going to use the gh5 yesterday for extra reach at a broadcast-style event (art auction) which was fully lit by a broadcast team running 9 or so cameras. but I decided against it in favor of an fs7 in that role (which had always been an option, just without as much reach) because of the noise levels on the gh5. I was shooting on my other cameras at f/2.8 around iso 1250 or 2500. (Lighting levels were lower than other broadcast events I've shot. I'm not sure if that was for the comfort of the audience or if their units just weren't that powerful. Everything was dimmed down, so the reason may have been the former because they were trying to create the feel of a soiree.) My 70-200 with 2x extender becomes an f/5.6. A gh5s probably would have been fine. But the experience got me researching super telephoto zooms in e-mount
You also have to consider if you don't want to shoot wide open or with 1/48 shutter. I made a creative decision recently to largely stop shooting slow mo during wedding receptions and it has vastly alleviated my need for so much sensitivity, although I usually keep the shutter at 1/60 or 1/80 for the look.
And certainly I think that anyone shooting documentary will appreciate the capability to work with as little illumination as possible
Thomas Smet
Veteran
It does help when one has a focal reducer to help the Gh5. A 70-200mm f2.8 becomes a 50-150mm f2.0 which is pretty much prime lens territory on the GH5. Thats still a roughly 300mm reach compared to FF and 3 stops faster than what most 300mm lenses are on FF. With that combination I think even a GH5 can handle situations fairly well at a typically 1/50th shutter speed. Even my Gh4 does fairly well with my Tamron 70-200 and a Metabones.
On the Canon Rf side the 300mm and longer lenses are even starting to be darker than f5.6. f7 and f8 being more common now. I realize my R6 can do a heck of a lot more with ISO than my GH4 ever could but f2 vs f7 is a heck of a lot of light.
Why I like the R6 however is my new RF 24-240 lens is amazing on this camera. Even though its a super dark lens the camera compensates for that. Lets be real m43 will never get a constant f2.0 12-120 lens. Its physically impossible. So the R6 allows me to use a super zoom in a way that actually doesn't suck.
Not everyone needs that however and the GH5 mk2 is still la rock solid camera for many users. My desire to shoot in a lazy way with my family stuff does not diminish how I feel about M43.
Bassman2003
Veteran
After watching some prepared A7IV work on YouTube, I can honestly say that I am not interested in the GH6 anymore. Panasonic waited too long and as I expected, Sony came in and blew the doors open at the $2,500 price point. The GH6 will never be seen as an equal for photography compared to the A7IV, so right there the GH6 is already behind. Now that the video specs are above acceptable levels for codecs, AF and features, I just do not see the GH6 as being a great path anymore. The combo of an A7IV + A7sIII or one of the cine models is a complete full small company stills and video coverage tool set without any compromise. Yes, this exists in Canon and Panny but there are compromises in the line (for me) imho with these sized cameras. The main thing stopping me from buying Sony in the past was their color. I believe the round of cameras starting with the A7sIII turned a corner for them and I think they are 'close enough' that one can dial in the look they want. Mainly the skin tones are more pleasing now and the tints have diminished to be easily removed. Basically, the footage I see from a variety of sources does scream SONY! when I see it. It just looks nice, which is what is desired imho.
So sad to move on but its the end of the GH line for me...
So sad to move on but its the end of the GH line for me...
Peter C.
Veteran
I think our opinions of out comes are exaggerated for and against cameras based on our specific needs. Each person has to do what's best for them but I know how you feel when you invest in a system and the competition innovates while your system stagnates or doesn't add the features you desire.After watching some prepared A7IV work on YouTube, I can honestly say that I am not interested in the GH6 anymore. Panasonic waited too long and as I expected, Sony came in and blew the doors open at the $2,500 price point. The GH6 will never be seen as an equal for photography compared to the A7IV, so right there the GH6 is already behind. Now that the video specs are above acceptable levels for codecs, AF and features, I just do not see the GH6 as being a great path anymore. The combo of an A7IV + A7sIII or one of the cine models is a complete full small company stills and video coverage tool set without any compromise. Yes, this exists in Canon and Panny but there are compromises in the line (for me) imho with these sized cameras. The main thing stopping me from buying Sony in the past was their color. I believe the round of cameras starting with the A7sIII turned a corner for them and I think they are 'close enough' that one can dial in the look they want. Mainly the skin tones are more pleasing now and the tints have diminished to be easily removed. Basically, the footage I see from a variety of sources does scream SONY! when I see it. It just looks nice, which is what is desired imho.
So sad to move on but its the end of the GH line for me...
Factually the market place is declining for Panasonic and the GH line. Despite that Panasonic is continuing to produce the GH and some people will stay with that system because either their budget, lens investment or their needs are still fulfilled with it.
I was watching a video where they were speculating that Panasonic is going to price the GH6 at $2,5 same as Sony A74 which would be funny. I don't think it will sell at that price. I think it's more likely will be $2k. The only selling point for the GH6 could be price for the camera and lenses. Although Black Magic is less expensive so it's their niche is getting increasingly small.
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stoneinapond
Veteran
So sad to move on but its the end of the GH line for me...
if that's what you want and need right now, just do it. The rest of us who are still interested have to wait a while longer to make those decisions.
Correct, along with the broadest choice in 3rd party & native lenses. You basically also have this with Canon, at a higher price point - minus a decent amount of the 3rd part lens options. There will be a lot more 3rd party RF lenses coming in the next couple of years though
Panasonic just needs functional AF for video & after the GH6 release get an 8K L mount cinema camera out. They can still do fine as a niche player. They will sell a couple thousand GH6s at $2500.
I'm really interested to find out if Sony is making Nikon's Z9 sensor or not. There is rumors that Tower Jazz is producing them and there are public announcements of a renewed relationship with Nikon from February this year (Nikon has used them & Aptina to produce Nikon-designed sensors in the past). It mentions Nikon supplying equipment to Tower Jazz.
I kind of wonder if with Nikon losing out on making machines for the CPU fab business; if they have been able to repurpose that technology to help them get a viable non-sony partner to make camera sensors in the kind of volumes they'd need for their best selling bodies. Pure speculation of course.
Canon, the only viable competitor to Sony, maintains it's own ability to put the sensors it wants in their cameras for a reason. Nikon & Panasonic probably can't even be niche players without that independence. Sony has slowly unfurled it's strategy to take over the whole industry and it's working pretty well
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That's the problem with Panasonic - do they bring out 8K in MFT or their full frame L-mount cameras? And, if they don't do 8K in GH-6 - which they said they wouldn't - then $2,500 is not a good value for that camera. And so they're stuck.
It's a Sony sensor. Tower Jazz was making some smartphone sensors for Panasonic, although Panasonic does make some of their own sensors, including the first organic global shutter 8K that has been demoed again recently. But it's S35 upscale/high end video model. Whether it'll ever make it into the consumer/prosumer market is unknown. Or whether it makes it anywhere at all.
The GH6 has a new sensor that can shoot 5.7K 60P then I wonder who else may use this sensor for a camera. The BM Pocket 4K and Studio camera sensor is so close (is it the same ) to the GH5S sensor I just wonder if BM would make a MFT 6K Pro version. To me that would be more attractive than the GH6.
Chances are the other participant going to be Olympus/OMD Digital, as has been the case in the last decade. However, OMD should want a higher pixel count than 20 MPX because it is a photo first/video second camera manufacturer, whereas Panasonic is video first/photo second. The problem from OMD's perspective is that Sony - their contractual sensor manufacturer - already has a 24 MPX APS-C model selling for $700 and charging more for a lower rez/smaller sensor camera is not going to be a viable commercial option. This means Sony has to make one sensor that will satisfy both the OMD stills shooters and the Panasonic video shooters at once. A solid option wold be via a Quad Bayer sensor, in the 12/48 to 16/64 range
Or, Sony can make something similar to A7IV as an MFT with a 33 MPX sensor and an oversampled 7K-into-4K. In which case, most people would still buy A7IV. And so the MFT alliance would have to make a jump into the 40's, which would suit OMD just fine but would force Panasonic to deliver a Canon R5 type oversampled 8K-into-4K in-camera recording. And that would require a lot of number crunching with the potential overheating complications. But, at least, it is something they'd be able to charge $2,500 for.
Sony did announce a 47 MPX sensor two years ago (IMX492LQJ) with the 45.1 stills capability and 8K at 30p but it was only 10-bit and didn't make it into any cameras. Quite likely, Panasonic preferred to launch its full frame line and avoid competing with itself. It would be put in an uncomfortable situation if GH-6 had superior specs to S1, to say the least.
Thinking people would buy a full frame at the same price is like wondering why someone would buy a Harley Davidson motorcycle when they could get a car for the same price. I for one do not want a full frame. Don't want to have to deal with the shallow depth of field and like the smaller lenses which I already own. I would like to use the lenses I have or if I have to change it would be for specific reasons . If I do change Blackmagic cameras are a better fit for what I want. A BM MFT 6K Pro would be great or better with an S35 8K Pro which would of course mean S35 lens to buy as well. IBIS and continuous autofocus are not even on my list of features. So not everyone has the same needs. For me upgrade features are 6 or 8K ( so that I can crop in closer than with UHD now) , long continuous power, RAW recording with secondary backup, good exposure setting ( scopes, peaking, punch in for focus etc). Panasonic needs external record ( I already have 2 Ninja V's ) BM have most of the features but for me would need an upgrade to the HDMI output to UHD ( which the newer Studio Cameras have so I think the updated Pocket range will get this as well to meet application of the latest ATEM's to UHD) I will look at the GH6 to see if the features fit for my needs. I expect it to have USB C PD power like the GH5M2, internal and external recording, RAW recording over HDMI for ProRes RAW and BRAW ( why would it be different to the GH5S ) though I expect no internal recording when recording RAW, IBIS like the GH5M2, autofocus improvements. I will also wait to see the next range from BM since I would like to record 6 or 8K RAW plus a normal backup of UHD60P. That is the feature I am really looking for. I expect BM to be the first to offer this since at UHD the Studio Cameras already do this.
In a free/freer market, there'd be product made for the niche users, albeit with a higher markup than for the "typical" applications. The photo-video market, on the other hand, is rigidly controlled by the Japanese cartel, with the top brands wrestling with each other behind the scenes to claim the most lucrative portions. In this case, timing was crucial. MFT cameras seem to have missed several opportunities for a new cycle and now have to defer to the newest full frame models.
PS. Technically speaking, a full frame camera can also offer an MFT or near MFT crop too but that would near destroy the stand-alone MFT market. And so they only offer an APS-C crop. The rest is out of their hands. If the end users move away from a particular format, then it's very unlikely that further research and development will be directed toward it. And it will wither on the vine. Like the cassette players, CRT TV's and VCR's.
PS. Technically speaking, a full frame camera can also offer an MFT or near MFT crop too but that would near destroy the stand-alone MFT market. And so they only offer an APS-C crop. The rest is out of their hands. If the end users move away from a particular format, then it's very unlikely that further research and development will be directed toward it. And it will wither on the vine. Like the cassette players, CRT TV's and VCR's.
stoneinapond
Veteran
Thread seems lonely. Yes, still interested but could be tempted away by an S5 mkII if it had a first rate EVF. But since neither is real at the moment, I'll have to continue waiting patiently. Although that is wearing thin with each passing day.
NorBro
Major Contributor
There's about a 50/50 chance they let a few more months go by and eventually cancel it.
Even if they said they wouldn't.
Because people change their minds or lie.
Just speculation and it's not something I want to see, but there's truly a good chance if you (anyone) forget about cameras for a second and think business and money.
Even if they said they wouldn't.
Because people change their minds or lie.
Just speculation and it's not something I want to see, but there's truly a good chance if you (anyone) forget about cameras for a second and think business and money.
stoneinapond
Veteran
Bassman2003
Veteran
Full disclosure (for Norbro) - I ordered an A7IV and an A7sIII and will put my GH5 & Canon gear up for sale. It has been a long wait but this was the way forward for me. I like the Panasonic functionality but they just let things go too long. I also do not have confidence the AF system will be a complete change/upgrade. I wanted a full stills/video hybrid setup without video compromises. It was between the Canon R5/R6 and the Sonys. It was close but in the end, I did not want to grit my teeth over small HDMIs, overheating and 30 min. time limits. Too bad Canon as you lost all of my body and lens purchases over your restrictions. Was it really worth it to artificially limit the cameras?
It is sad that the Panasonic cameras where not in the mix. Why? It seems to me that the S line could vanish at any time. I am not a huge user of auto focus but on gimbals and some stills work require it. Stubborn or not allowed to succeed is what comes to mind. But either way, nothing I want to invest in. The S5 was a ray of hope but giving it a lame viewfinder and small HDMI just took Panasonic out of the mix. Nothing kills a camera purchase than a feature that is out of date before you even take delivery.
In the end, after watching too many YouTube videos, all of these cameras look more alike than different these days. That allowed me to go to the Sony system as I have never liked the look of their lower end cameras in the past. 10bit 4:2:2 and we are off to races. I am tired of cameras and camera makers to be honest. All of the thorns and finely diced features spread across the marketplace is exhausting. Pick one and go make the best of it.
Yes, this thread is tired and frankly so am I. For those who do purchase a GH6 (if it arrives) I am sure it will be a great tool. Best of luck!
It is sad that the Panasonic cameras where not in the mix. Why? It seems to me that the S line could vanish at any time. I am not a huge user of auto focus but on gimbals and some stills work require it. Stubborn or not allowed to succeed is what comes to mind. But either way, nothing I want to invest in. The S5 was a ray of hope but giving it a lame viewfinder and small HDMI just took Panasonic out of the mix. Nothing kills a camera purchase than a feature that is out of date before you even take delivery.
In the end, after watching too many YouTube videos, all of these cameras look more alike than different these days. That allowed me to go to the Sony system as I have never liked the look of their lower end cameras in the past. 10bit 4:2:2 and we are off to races. I am tired of cameras and camera makers to be honest. All of the thorns and finely diced features spread across the marketplace is exhausting. Pick one and go make the best of it.
Yes, this thread is tired and frankly so am I. For those who do purchase a GH6 (if it arrives) I am sure it will be a great tool. Best of luck!