C300: Zacuto First Look at the Canon 18-80 Zoom Lens

Eric, look at the Zacuto VCT Pro. Sliding, extremely low-profile baseplate that mounts to the camera that allows it to mount and adjust fore and aft in the Shoulder mount for balance and they have a stand alone piece that they call the tripod doc that also accepts the baseplate so you can mount the camera without the shoulder mount. B&H is actually offering the Pro wth the tripod dock thrown in for free right now. I thinks it's designed for exactly what you need and want to do.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1288913-REG/zacuto_z_vct_p_vct_pro_baseplate.html
 
Run&Gun said:
Eric, look at the Zacuto VCT Pro. Sliding, extremely low-profile baseplate that mounts to the camera that allows it to mount and adjust fore and aft in the Shoulder mount for balance and they have a stand alone piece that they call the tripod doc that also accepts the baseplate so you can mount the camera without the shoulder mount. B&H is actually offering the Pro wth the tripod dock thrown in for free right now. I thinks it's designed for exactly what you need and want to do.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1288913-REG/zacuto_z_vct_p_vct_pro_baseplate.html
Click to expand...

That is a nice setup.
 
Run&Gun said:
Eric, look at the Zacuto VCT Pro. Sliding, extremely low-profile baseplate that mounts to the camera that allows it to mount and adjust fore and aft in the Shoulder mount for balance and they have a stand alone piece that they call the tripod doc that also accepts the baseplate so you can mount the camera without the shoulder mount. B&H is actually offering the Pro wth the tripod dock thrown in for free right now. I thinks it's designed for exactly what you need and want to do.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1288913-REG/zacuto_z_vct_p_vct_pro_baseplate.html
Click to expand...
The Zacuto VCT Pro doesn't solve any of the issues I already listed which apply to the pro version as well as the original VCT plate. The tripod doc is only really useful if you don't need rails (for follow focus, etc.); if you do, then disconnecting just the plate means you can't bring your rails with you, like you can with the Wooden Camera setup.


Eric Coughlin said:
I'm considering buying the Wooden Camera Shoulder Mount V2 setup. I have the Zacuto setup (with the older baseplate) and don't like it. So many pieces, takes a long time to setup, takes a long time to take the camera on and off of it, and the rods aren't strong for supporting a heavy camera load. The new setup they show here has (yet another accessory) a new side handle grip bar that isn't rod based, but if you wanted a dual handle setup like I do when a first AC is pulling focus, then the second handle would be attached via rods. The Wooden Camera setup may not look as sexy, but I feel it is much more streamlined for quick setups and changing setups quickly.
Click to expand...
 
Back after a couple days working, I think what I will do, so this thread stays on topic of Canon Servo zoom, is the period tween Xmas and New Years I will post a notice simultaneously on Canon EOS, Sony FS 5&7 forum and the Panasonic forum to check out a thread I will start under the Business & Distribution forum, to discuss rates, bidding, competition, having to throw things in for free because prod has become a buyer's market, etc. Perhaps it can become a sticky. That way we get all 3 majors involved instead of going off topic on one Canon EOS thread here.


So keep an eye out in a week or so on a Rates Thread in the DVXUser Business forum, which is usually lame. I am active on Creative Cow's Business & Marketing forum but that tends towards producers, small prod cos, small post houses and indie editors, so their world and gear investment perspectives are different than ours. But I do encourage many of you to become lurkers and then regulars on that forum. More old timers, fewer hobbyists.

Too bad we do not have a mole within Canon to spill the beans as to the delay. When I was in the Panasonic Universe Jan Crittendon was our go-between. We don't have one with Canon. Perhaps an Abel Cine insider or someone similar can get the scoop? But for me, I don't think I am investing in it now. Too close to "retiring"!
 
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Canon Compact-Servo Lens is on target to ship this month

Canon Compact-Servo Lens is on target to ship this month

Canon said today that the Compact-Servo Lens is on target to ship this month after Christmas.

If you order from another Canon dealer, make sure that you order both the CN-E18-80mm lens 1714C002 $5225 and the optional servo unit, ZSG-C10 servo unit 1715C002 $474.05 to get a working kit $5699.05.

Our order sku below is not the typical sku available with other dealers. i'm forecasting that all lens will be sold with grip.

we still have lenses available from our first expected shipment that do not have buyers.

CANON COMPACT-SERVO CN-E18-80MM W/ SERVO UNIT ZSG-C10 - 1714C002 $5699.05

canon-apply-first.png
 
Hello indiawilds,

have been dreaming the same dream for a long time... ...until it was vignetted by, IIRC, Terry Nixon saying that it's a 'no go'.

However, as we all love to live in illusions, I did a little math and will not stop dreaming till I see it with my own eyes (although YT video will be fine).

Canon CN-E 18-80 image circle is 31,4 mm.

Here is some Canon 1Dx mkII sensor info:

sensor_size_h: 35.9 mm
sensor_size_v: 23.9 mm
aspect_ratio: 3:2

If we presume that sensor contains only photo-sites that translate directly to image pixels, it should be either 35,9 mm x ~23,93 mm or 35,85 mm x 23,9 mm.
This proves that either Canon gave false information regarding sensor size or that there are some other things on sensor beside photo-sites that translate directly to pixels.

largest_image_size_h: 5472 px
largest_image_size_v: 3648 px
largest_image_pixel_count: 19961856 px
effective_sensor_pixels: ~20.2 Mpx (rounded at 10.000)

The difference between effective and largest image size is second evidence that sensor doesn't contain only evenly spread photo-sites that translate directly to image pixels.

So, here is first scenario with smallest average photo-site size of ~6.5127 µm (~6.5131 µm x ~6.5123 µm):

effective_sensor_size_h: 5512 px
effective_sensor_size_v: 3670 px
effective_sensor_pixels: 20229040 px

In this case, 1:1 pixel 4k mode sensor diagonal should be 30,16 mm.


Second scenario With largest average photo-site size of ~6.5561 µm (~6.5607 µm x ~6.5515 µm)

effective_sensor_size_h: 5472 px
effective_sensor_size_v: 3648 px
effective_sensor_pixels: 19961856 px

Sensor diagonal should be 30.37 mm.


Third scenario is with largest theorethical photosite size of ~6.5607 µm and maximal sensor diagonal in 1:1 pixel 4k mode should be 30,38 mm.

Unless Canon is doing some alchemy on their math with this bayer CMOS sensor which results in having significantly less real photo-sites that make effective pixels, Canon CN-E 18-80 should cover 1:1 pixel 4k mode sensor diagonal on Canon 1Dx mkII.
 
Bern Caughey said:
Imagine Zacuto's lens support conforms to the iris rod standards for 15mm LWS. If not it's DOA, & won't be widely adopted.

https://thecinelens.com/2014/01/27/iris-rods-a-simple-explanation/
Click to expand...

That's what I presume. Once the iris rods are set for the optical center of the lens on the specific camera, everything should just slide on in the right place regardless of what lens is used on the camera from that point on.

The method I used when I set my C300 and F55 up on their respective Zacuto VCT shoulder mounts:

1) Mount the camera to the plate
2) Put a lens on that your going to use a rail/rod mounted matte box with (it's easy with my Arri, I use 114mm solid rings for my primes)
3) Loosen screws for iris rod bracket
4) Attach rods
5) Slide matte box on rods and then onto lens
6) Check that everything is level and square, so to speak
7) tighten bracket screws down
8) Slide matte box off lens then check that is slides back on and off effortlessly(no binding or having to push matte box up, down or to the sides to slide it over the lens).

The rods should now be set for the optical center of any lens you put on that camera on that mount.
 
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Well, breaking Ned's off-topic upcoming biz/rate thread request... Eric, what do you charge for your multi-cam one man setups?
A different rate for each camera? And how long do you need for a 3 cam/light/sound setup? thx
 
Eric Coughlin said:
Now the Mark I is a $7,000 camera, so if you you're commonly still getting $600 on the rental for just the camera alone, I'd be surprised...

Whether or not the gear is paid off by the owner/op seems irrelevant to me. What's important is the market value of the camera, and the camera's sale price going down lowers the market value.
Click to expand...

I guess the broadcast/network world is a lot less sensitive to the cost of the gear that the shooters own than in the corporate world. My 300(mark I) just went out for a rental tomorrow. Body only. $600.

I disagree with the market value of the gear argument. At least based on my client base. I did a shoot a few months ago and they wanted my tape VariCam. Same rate they paid me when it was new($45K body), and the market value of a tape Vari is almost nonexistent(you can find them on eBay for well under $1K). Actually the rate they pay is slightly higher, now. Same thing for my P2 Vari's, you can get them on eBay for a few $K, but they still pay the same rate. Hell, if I didn't own the tape Vari, I could have bought one before that shoot and turned a profit with it that one day.
 
FWIW, I was looking up some rental rates last night. BorrowLens is on something like $week x 20 = $retail.

For example, C100 MKII is $293/w, FS7 - $449, 1DX MKII - $326, Red Raven $605, C300 MKII EF $740, 1D C $354, etc.

Daily rates are ~ weekly/3.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I'm considering buying the Wooden Camera Shoulder Mount V2 setup. I have the Zacuto setup (with the older baseplate) and don't like it. So many pieces, takes a long time to setup, takes a long time to take the camera on and off of it, and the rods aren't strong for supporting a heavy camera load. The new setup they show here has (yet another accessory) a new side handle grip bar that isn't rod based, but if you wanted a dual handle setup like I do when a first AC is pulling focus, then the second handle would be attached via rods. The Wooden Camera setup may not look as sexy, but I feel it is much more streamlined for quick setups and changing setups quickly.

Zacuto's lens support lacking height adjustment is a big flaw as I see it. So it only works with height adjustable baseplate rod setups? I assume it's not a standardized height for various baseplates. What a pain. I hope another lens support option becomes available. Though, it's not that heavy of a lens, so you could probably get away without lens support most of the time, or use a generic lens support which doesn't screw into the lens.



This one?: http://www.abelcine.com/store/ARRI-Fujinon-Alura-18-80mm-T2.6-Zoom/#tabs

A nice focal range as an alternative to the Canon 15.5-47 and Canon 30-105, for example, but at 10.4 lbs for the weight of the lens, it looses intrigue for me.
Click to expand...

I feel like the Alura 18-80 got sidelined by the Fuji Cabrio 19-90. The Cabrio gets a LOT of use while I've NEVER seen the Alura in the field. Likewise I know at least a dozen owners of the Cabrio and 0 for the Alura.
 
No Bill, I think you've mixed me up with someone else, I didn't buy a 17-120. I'm trying to slide more towards producing, so the young suckers I hire to shoot can sink all their dough into hardware!

What I am buying now is gear for litigation support videos. You can shoot and produce them while using a walker! Plus, they won't work past 5PM. That's my favorite type of client. Actually, my favorite clients are alcoholics. They call Wrap at 4PM! Ever notice that?
 
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Long response due to being stuck indoors from snow. I am doing this as a public service to all you young DPs, who should be investing your surplus cash, rather than feeding your gear habit:

So...although when I first learned of this lens, for my market of documentary style shooting, I thought it would be great, but putting such a lens on a C100 is like installing a dual high performance carburetor for drag racing on your Prius, plus it's not wide and tele enough. I feel like I am being dragged into the 4K world because 80% of my clients are presently fine with the C100, (which at this point would mean going FS7 based on the request meter), but at 63 I have to say: What's left of this lifespan? Do I want to spend $ on gear when that amount of money could mean visiting somewhere I haven't been? I've travelled all over the world on other people's money my entire life as a cameraman, so having to do it on my own dime now is an ouch, and $6500 would buy a week scuba diving in Fiji, right?

There are many, many people in the DP biz now from wealthy families, or married a highly paid wife, and they can buy anything they desire, but me, I'm 100% self made, so I have to actually justify the cost of a $6500 lens, plus the Zacuto doo-dad, and balance it against what revenues it will bring in. Lots of guys on this site just like to buy gear. And in my market this lens will not make it's money back, at least at the declining rates we now get in the Chicago market, I realize being in LA or NYC there are more deep pocket clients who appreciate quality and highly stylized output, but I'm Corporate, Documentary, Live Event and Non-Fiction TV. It is a buyers' market now. I lose a higher percentage of my estimates than ever, when competing apples-to-apples, because the prospects have so many shooters to choose from and they now see us DPs as a commodity. To compete, the competitors throw in things for free. You could say, "But I will be bringing my new Canon 18-70 servo zoom for no extra charge! And I promise to throw in for FREE my drone, slider, jib, Ronin, brand new Suburban, two other camera angles for the interviews, a freebie PA, I don't require a lunch break, etc." and maybe you will get the gig. But only a rich kid could stay in business for long doing that (and I see that often), correct?

Yesterday I shot a doctors reality network TV show and I had to scrub up and be in the OR, so I talked the client into letting me use my ENG camera with a servo zoom. Most all clients don't know what a "servo zoom" lens is or means, I just say, "Trust me, I can get all the shots the editor needs without stopping to change lenses." They look like you just took the proverbial splinter from their paw. In an OR anything I put down on a tray or table will ruin it's sterilization, so changing lenses was a non-starter. Also, my elbows could bump the surgeon, which I think I would feel guilty about the rest of my life, plus my video would probably be subpoenaed. This is why I always HATE shooting docs with still lenses. It slows me down and I am known as Mr. Fast in terms of docs.

I was thinking of buying this Canon zoom, even with it's limited range, although once it was delayed I got cold feet assuming there are production problems. But for reasons above, it doesn't make business sense, although it will make my life easier and I wouldn't miss shots from changing lenses. And as I have mentioned in previous posts, I will usually do a gig with the C100 for interviews and controlled shooting for a stylized vibe, but have the ENG camera on Stand By for when the action hits the fan. For instance, I field produce and shoot for Animal Planet's "Bad Dog". Even at 17mm (not wide enough) to 80mm (not tele enough), I couldn't follow a hyper dog around the house, right? And lately I did a pediatric rehab doc of kids going in all directions. So we all need servo but why such limited ranges? But I digress...

And DLD, here's my plan. About ten years ago I noticed a lot of the older cameramen I knew in Chicago, starting to be put out to pasture. No DP voluntarily "quits", or "retires". They just get so old no one wants to hire them anymore. They look like sad ex-race horses at a children's birthday party. Many were wealthy it turns out, although I didn't know it till the end, sometimes at their wake. Some of these DPs I had been their film AC. So then I thought: What will happen to me? My plan for my video life in my retirement is to shoot and produce freebie fund raising videos for very small charities. I call it: Working On My Obituary. Doing some good in the world instead of helping companies sell their crap with my Video Super Powers. I say small because I am totally disenchanted with all the large national charities I have worked for, so small charity fund raisers (a specialty of mine), at least you can see the needle move from my video, right? Feels good. Will compensate for me working for the Dark Side so much. In fact, I got an email from the Secret Service this morning for credentials to film the inaugural, so I still work both sides. But I digress...

Besides doing charity freebie work in retirement, I started thinking: What if I unexpectedly need more money? I've always been a "What Iffer?" What if the market crashes, Medicare is gutted, we need Long Term Care, etc.? I'd be "too old" to hire as a DP or be on this hamster wheel of having to constantly buy new gear like this zoom. Over the years I have worked for very large law firms and they actually appreciate experience, the more grey hair the better. Imagine that? And it's very light work with using what we would consider old, crappy, non-4K gear, (their favorite camera is the old Panasonic 160A which is about $3200) and much of the revenue comes from the post work that we can do in our bathrobes. I have always loved making money in my bathrobe. Most of you here are too young to remember making VHS time code window dubs in your bathrobe, with a beer and kitchen timer! In those days that was the only way your clients could view your footage without going into a $300 a hour editing suite, so after your shoot day you made an extra $100-$300 making VHS dubs in your bathrobe. But I digress...

So, I recently got certified and was trained in Miami by a guy 75 years old! Can you imagine a 75 year old DP doing the very physical work we do, getting hired by twenty-somethings? No f'ing way. I figure I could do this type of shooting using a walker and doing post in my bathrobe. That is why I am moving towards litigation support videos instead of buying this servo lens, and then having to buy and market the FS7 (or FS5 or C300?) to keep making more money, and pitching 24 year olds. It is extremely hard to get new clients in litigation support because they are so fiercely loyal to their present video vendors, unlike my clients in marketing, HR, PR, TV, etc. Secrecy and knowledge of the legal procedures is paramount. Also, they are looser with their money because they just pass it onto their clients! So soon, I am planning to step off this hamster wheel of spending money that will not be returned, and the cost of FS7s (or C300s) PLUS a servo zoom, (and throwing in all the rest "for free") are probably the nails in my shooting coffin.

Lastly, as I look back on all the business mistakes I have had: loser partners, get rich quick video schemes, office leases, lousy investments, big clients going under (or skipping out), buying the wrong expensive camera and being burned by a quick technology change (such as AF100 to C100), etc. I think: What if I had put that $ in the Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund? So plan for your future, it will be here before you know it. Mine was!

See ya,

Ned

P.S. I am going to ask DVXUser to start a forum on Real DP Only Business Issues, (meaning the economics of non-rich kids DPs.), such as cost estimating, competition, market conditions, amortization of equipment purchases, charging overhead, IRS issues, etc. This will be able to include the Sony and Panasonic peeps. I'd prefer if it was most of us rather than indies, etc. There could be a sub-forum on Getting Too Old To Do This Much Longer! and that's where I'm at.

P.S.S. Here's pic from yesterday. It's cheaper to use an ENG camera with a servo zoom than for me to buy this Canon 17-80. I shot with my right hand and the left is aiming my MH60 at whatever nurse is speaking, the doctor is radio miked. Above my left eye, under the hair net, is my folded shot list.



P.S.S.S. If this lens was wider and longer with no T stop loss, say 12-120, wow, then I'd be inclined to....
 

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Great, real world post Ned! I agree, it is a hamster wheel that never stops spinning. NGAD (New gear acquisition disease) is a real thing and many of the posters of DVXUser are afflicted. I am also contemplating buying the C300 MKII since I too use the C100 MKI like you, it was a good investment and it has paid for itself two or three times already. I recently joined the union here in LA, ICG600 and that was $10k to join. I will never see any benefits as far as health insurance or retirement from it unless I do over 800 union hours per year. That will never happen unless I am lucky enough to get onto a series as DP or an operator, which is unlikely although that can always change. I have a client who wanted me to become union because they are always doing union shoots for BTS on certain TV series that I can't shoot on because I am not able to shoot on the studio stages mostly unless I am in the union. If this client books me for a few series next year, I will buy the C300 MKII. It should be good enough for me to use for at least 3-5 years since it is 4K. I don't see deliverables or acquisition requirements going above 4K for quite a while. But I will only buy the C300 MKII if I can pay it off within a few months of camera rentals. Luckily, like you, I already have enough grip, lighting and audio gear to do my job.

I find that most of my money has been going to paying off credit cards, home improvement projects and my 401k so it's difficult to think about shelling out $15 or $20k for a new camera. But it can be a good financial investment if you can pay it off quickly. There is nothing more gratifying that having a piece of gear that is paid for and you book a 14 day trip overseas with ten shooting days and you charge $500.00 per day for the camera! $5k profit for bringing your camera is a good thing. My grip, lighting and audio has made me a LOT of money over the years. It's just a couple of hundred bucks per day rental here and there but it is the gift that keeps on giving. I paid it all off decades ago and it still makes me profit with hardly any upkeep although I did just layout a couple of grand for the new Aputure LS 1S panels. I had to as my older LEDs were starting to fade in intensity to where I couldn't get a wide shot during interviews because I had to have my LED panels so close to the talent to achieve the output levels needed. But even those old Coollights LEDs, they were cheap and made me a ton of rentals over the past five years so they were a good investment. Hopefully the Aputures will too.

I am frugal. I shot with my HPX300 and HPX170 for six years and both were paid for, worked well and made me a lot of profit. I will never spend more than $10k on a camera again, the risk is too high. Even the C300 MKII, I will only buy it when it drops below $10k for new one or a nice used one. Even $10k is a lot of money but if I can pay that off with 20 rental days, I can do that in a couple of months, then it is profit city! I like your idea for the new forum, very practical discussions of the business, not just the gear side of things.
 
Ned - as usual, great post. Lots and lots of great knowledge in that one... but have to say, my two favorite sentences are:
"They look like sad ex-race horses at a children's birthday party."
"Doing some good in the world instead of helping companies sell their crap with my Video Super Powers."

Perhaps writing could also help support your retirment. :thumbsup:
 
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