F3: Why I bought an F35 instead of going 4K with the F5/F55
- Thread starter Viddovation
- Start date
starcentral
Veteran
It is confirmed by Sony forums. The SR Codec coming to the F5/F55 is only available in the HD format, not 2k or 4k. (Maybe most of you knew this already but sorry I didn't know).
At least the SR Codec option will put the F5/F55 on par with what the F3 will do with the RGB upgrade and gemini deck... all internally however which is great.
OlegKalyan
Well-known member
OFF topic,
thank Nate Weaver
Looked British tv series Downton Abbey, Season 1 looks better than Season 3.
Overall I like the look of D21 very much.. Alexa looks a bit plastiky, in Melancholia, In Time and many other films,
It actually looks less film like, compared to D21. IMHO
24 volts and codec could complicate " on a fly" workflow.
F5/55 would be good to know the lattitude, how it spreads in shadows/highlights! If well preserved highlights, the desision could be hard, to choose among camera offerings in 2013)
thank Nate Weaver
Looked British tv series Downton Abbey, Season 1 looks better than Season 3.
Overall I like the look of D21 very much.. Alexa looks a bit plastiky, in Melancholia, In Time and many other films,
It actually looks less film like, compared to D21. IMHO
24 volts and codec could complicate " on a fly" workflow.
F5/55 would be good to know the lattitude, how it spreads in shadows/highlights! If well preserved highlights, the desision could be hard, to choose among camera offerings in 2013)
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eddavid
Carbonite Member
You nailed it - the Alexa has a "plastiky" look. I wonder what the scientific term for that. The first season of Downton a lot less. Is it the shutter? The mechanical shutter?
Nate Weaver
Veteran
My opinion only, some of it's pretty wacky:
-very, very clean when not pushed.
-highlight rolloff is so controlled, so graceful, it doesn't look like any camera before it. There has been speculation in the past that the Alexa does in-camera HDR processing with two exposures.
-There is, and this is *really* going out on a limb here, I believe there is some in-camera, electronic diffusion that is very subtle. If you have ever played with the "Mist" diffusion sliders in DaVinci Resolve, you'll notice it's a similar look if used in very small amounts. Next time you're in front of Davinci with a colorist, ask to see Mist with a level of 46 and a mix of 46, you might see it and agree.
It's hard to say Downtown Abbey S1 looks better than S2 at least on blu ray because S1 is a 60i transfer while S2 is 24p. Why, nobody knows.
But with the D21, as long as it has lots of light it will look phenomenal. If it does not, well it looks pretty bad. This is also true, although in a lesser degree, with the F35. I think one of the reasons the Alexa is cleaning house and getting picked over Genesis, F35 or any RED is because of how well it does in low light. Deakins was saying how some scenes in Skyfall would not be possible with film. Like the dark fight scene in the Shanghai tower. I think the Alexa really shined in that scene and any of these other cameras would be just too noisy there.
But back to Downtown Abbey, when you look at some of the darker shots from S1, I guess wacky is a pretty "accurate" word to describe them.
The plastiky feel of the Alexa I think comes mainly from the fact the image is pretty grainless.
But with the D21, as long as it has lots of light it will look phenomenal. If it does not, well it looks pretty bad. This is also true, although in a lesser degree, with the F35. I think one of the reasons the Alexa is cleaning house and getting picked over Genesis, F35 or any RED is because of how well it does in low light. Deakins was saying how some scenes in Skyfall would not be possible with film. Like the dark fight scene in the Shanghai tower. I think the Alexa really shined in that scene and any of these other cameras would be just too noisy there.
But back to Downtown Abbey, when you look at some of the darker shots from S1, I guess wacky is a pretty "accurate" word to describe them.
The plastiky feel of the Alexa I think comes mainly from the fact the image is pretty grainless.
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eddavid
Carbonite Member
I agree with you, Deakins said he would have shot Kundun on the Alexa if he had the choice at the time, over 35mm film because of its sensativity.
But that doesn't make it better
His work was so much stronger with film. Is that because of digital. Yes, I think so.
I think Nate is right about the "plastik" look - its from highlight handling - it puts a plastic texture border on everyone. And yes, maybe it is HDR-like - the contrast isn't there so it looks more cartoony. Like Drive. I love that movie but it feels like a cartoon. Defiinetely visually not as strong as "Bronson" - his previous film shot on film.
I agree with you, Deakins said he would have shot Kundun on the Alexa if he had the choice at the time, over 35mm film because of its sensativity.
But that doesn't make it better
Well, I didn't say the Alexa was better. But in the end of the day that's a blank statement because it's all in the eye of the beholder.
His previous work on film, he who? I thought we were talking about Deakins, but the later two movies have nothing to do with him or were even shot by the same guy. They do have the same director though. But I don't see what this has to do with the camera. So you kind of lost me there.
OlegKalyan
Well-known member
In case of Downton, season 3 looks more contrasty, with harsher highlights, I'd say in a sufficient lighting there's more information in shadows in material shot with D21, that's how it look more like film to me, "plasticity" shown on human faces, D21 has "finer grain, possibly more color depth on a micro level, I think it's not characteristic of lattitude, more so of how sensor transfer bits of color.
Viddovation
Veteran
So, some people had asked about the rig's connections and such. Here's a shot of the connections side of the camera and recorder, showing how I'm running power and video signals. In a real world production there might be a few more cables attached for audio and monitors and such. I had a colleague make me custom length video and power connectors, which keeps this a lot cleaner than it could be!
The F35/SR-R1 may be bulky by today's standard, but I think we can agree there's no lack of I/O capabilities!
The F35/SR-R1 may be bulky by today's standard, but I think we can agree there's no lack of I/O capabilities!
Viddovation
Veteran
I just did a quick test with an RGB 444 10bit signal. Doesn't seem to send the RGB colorspace over the monitor connection, much less dual link.
macgregor
Veteran
Nate Weaver
Veteran
I think ultra clean without the midtone contrast of film is a bit...very new and perfect feeling. I think in our world the closer you get to technically perfect images, the less your imagination is engaged.
macgregor
Veteran
What do you mean by wide color?
Well said. Sums up why I don't like high frame rate 48-60fps over 24fps. The absence of information encourages your brain to work a little.
OlegKalyan
Well-known member
Tough decision, D21 vs. F35, makes me think, both look very attractive!
another show to check out is Human target, shot on D21, and ... Panasonic GH1, can easily spot which is which..
some read http://www.eoshd.com/content/tag/arri-d21
another show to check out is Human target, shot on D21, and ... Panasonic GH1, can easily spot which is which..
some read http://www.eoshd.com/content/tag/arri-d21