F3: Why I bought an F35 instead of going 4K with the F5/F55

Don't mean to steal this thread but there are a lot of sharp people on here and I need to ask your advice.

It looks like I'm picking up an Arri D21. Just got a great deal on one. Can't pass it up. Here is the package:

Item item number and quantity
D-21 CAMERA 21120 1 1
D-21 CAMERA SIDE COVER 211203 1
TURRET PLUG PL MOUNT 208101 1
D-21 CAMERA HANDLE 211202 1
D-21 VIEWFINDER (STANDARD) 211205 1
EYEPIECE SUPER W/A 208621 1
EYECUP 208601 1
GROUND GLASS 208461 1
ARRI GLOW MASK 208462 1
VIDEO ELBOW FRONT CAP 210543 1
24V PLUG ON MODULE(435) 299212 1
KC-20 ARRI POWER CABLES 24V 243311 2
FEM-2 1
D-21 CAMERA CASE 209109 1

Are there any surprises I should watch out for with this camera? I'm planning on using my existing gear such as smallhd ac7 monitor and perhaps a hyperdeck shuttle? I know it's big so I'm going to have to find a "much" bigger tripod, but I can bench several hundred pounds, so should be able to handle it.

My big question is what lens I should get for it? I want the most bang for the buck but am on a tight budget. I'm selling off some of my existing lens to pay for it. I really want a lens that was used in feature films 10-20-30 years ago. Right now I'm looking at cooke varotal. Any suggestions for most bang for my buck?
 
I think you need a new thread. While I did contemplate the D21, I didn't buy one, and I've never touched one or worked on a set with one. I can't provide useful insight, sorry.
 
Ok, I will bite.
But upfront I will already say, to please don't take anything I say personal. I have been accused of roughing people's feathers a few times because I don't speak to people like they are 5 year olds, but rather like they are adults capable of handling criticism and different opinions. Unfortunately when people are not told what they want to hear it often back fires. But here's my go at it since you asked for opinions.

Sfernald said:
Are there any surprises I should watch out for with this camera?
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Totally depends where you're coming from. If you are coming from an Arri 435 or a Panaflex you will be at home. If you are coming from DSLRs or palmcams, boy you are in for a surprise.


Sfernald said:
I'm planning on using my existing gear such as smallhd ac7 monitor and perhaps a hyperdeck shuttle?
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The biggest advantage of the D21 and the way to get the best out of it is to use a recorder capable of recording ArriRaw. Otherwise what you get is a very heavy and chunky made for daylight shooting HD camera with 10 stops of dynamic range, instead of a 2K RAW camera. In my opinion the only reason to put up with all the negatives from the D21 would be to get the full benefits. Otherwise there are much better options for the price you probably paid.


Sfernald said:
My big question is what lens I should get for it? I want the most bang for the buck but am on a tight budget.
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See, here is where things get messy for me. People go through huge hoops just to buy a camera they think is awesome, because it's a true high-end camera and even go over budget for that. Just to use the cheapest glass on it. I just think this totally defeats the purpose of sacrificing to get such a camera in the first place. But this has already caused a huge debate in this forums so I rather not get into that again. But it is my opinion.



Sfernald said:
I'm selling off some of my existing lens to pay for it. I really want a lens that was used in feature films 10-20-30 years ago. Right now I'm looking at cooke varotal. Any suggestions for most bang for my buck?
Click to expand...

Whatever you get just make sure it's FAST! Like REALLY FAST! The D21 is rated at ISO200. So don't even think about getting anything slower than like 1.8, which is still not awfully fast for ISO200. Unless you want to shoot day externals only.
For best bang for the buck my suggestion is always the Rokinon Cines. Affordable and although not Master Primes or S4s they are at least aimed at cinema and the glass is decent. I think this is much better than using lenses for stills. But the D21, like the F35 is really the type of camera that truly benefits from great glass such as Master, Ultras, S4s etc. There's always rental.

The biggest downside for me is not the weight. But the 24v thing, which pretty much means a big block power supply/battery on the floor connected to the camera via an umbilical cord.

By the way, are you buying this package in the U.S. or Europe? It looks an awful like one that I was looking into myself a little time ago.
 
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Thanks. These are very good comments Adam. I am a big boy and can take it ;)

This is a US package. I think it's a standard Arri rental package so it is pretty common.

so you suggest the following:
- get a fast lens
- try to get a recorder that captures arri raw
- consider power/battery issue carefully

Thanks!
 
If you have the package to handle it and don't mind a little grain, the D21 is one of the most filmic cameras out there IMO. I think it's more filmic than even the Alexa and definitely more than the F35, Genesis or REDs.
Although it has the disadvantages we already spoke about, it also has many advantages over something like the F35. The D21 is not limited to 50p and is not limited to HD or RGB. You will love the optical viewfinder, the mirror shutter is the best film look device in any camera, and if you want to shoot real anamorphic it's as straight forward as with film, since the sensor is 4:3.
Once you receive it and get it up and running, don't be shy and post some footage. :)
 
Thanks. The one thing I don't get is your comment about lens. I'm not looking at using still glass. I'm looking at picking up a PL mount zoom lens that was used to make feature films maybe 10-30 years ago. Prices have dropped on these but the glass is still incredible. Size s a big negative with some of this glass, but who cares when you already have a d21 right?

im looking at older cooke or ang or zeiss glass, something that will cover the full range from wide to close up.

Deal is not set yet. I still got to try to get them down on price a little more if I can and am still researching for snafus. It is definitely there in my price range if I want it.
 
See that's why I ask you guys before I jump into anything.

Without Arriraw the camera isn't worth it, but I would need a 4k deal on a recorder on eBay or at least a 6k Gemini recorder to be able to capture arriraw. That starts to put it too close to cameras like the f5, so it loses a lot of the appeal.
 
Sfernald said:
Thanks. The one thing I don't get is your comment about lens. I'm not looking at using still glass. I'm looking at picking up a PL mount zoom lens that was used to make feature films maybe 10-30 years ago. Prices have dropped on these but the glass is still incredible. Size s a big negative with some of this glass, but who cares when you already have a d21 right?

im looking at older cooke or ang or zeiss glass, something that will cover the full range from wide to close up.

Deal is not set yet. I still got to try to get them down on price a little more if I can and am still researching for snafus. It is definitely there in my price range if I want it.
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I just said that because you said you want the most bang for the buck because you are on a tight budget and selling off some existing lenses to pay for it. So I understood you were broke and you were looking for cheap lenses. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

The thing about that old cine zoom you are talking about is that I doubt it's any fast, is it? I would also really mind size and weight, since you are starting off with a huge 24Lbs camera and this is even before considering accessories.
 
Sfernald said:
See that's why I ask you guys before I jump into anything.

Without Arriraw the camera isn't worth it, but I would need a 4k deal on a recorder on eBay or at least a 6k Gemini recorder to be able to capture arriraw. That starts to put it too close to cameras like the f5, so it loses a lot of the appeal.
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Now you start to see why these cameras, the F35 and D21 are going for so cheap. You are only buying a fraction of a system. You can definitely cut corners, cheap out, accept getting only half the benefits and get away with it. But if you really want to build it up to full specs and to get all they offer, they are not really that cheap. Sure they will still be just a fraction of the price they cost new, 5-7 years ago. But compared to the latest stuff they start to look less and less appealing. Unless you are really enamored with the look.
 
You can run two 12-15 volt batteries in series to run your camera. This is done all the time on Steadicam which are setup with two battery plates and a simple switch moves you from 12 volt to 24 volt.

Now you have a legitimate excuse to beef up your lighting kits.
 
You can feed your Hyperdeck Shuttle via the HD-SDI out from the camera in either Log C or Rec 709 color space. You will also need to record your audio separately and sync in post. Also be aware that while the camera base sensitivity is 200, the camera operates from 100 - 500 ISO. And as far as your lens question goes, something like the Cooke 18-100mm would make great pictures on this camera. Need less expensive? The Cooke 20-100mm.
 
Lets also not forget that complete Red One MX packages are available for around $8K plus transfer fee.

There are deals out there if these cameras are what you need.
 
I decided not to get the d21, but that package is available for $6750 if anyone is interested. Not a bad price at all to me. Would be really fun to see what this camera is capable of.
 
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