GH2 Why do we need a GH3? Isn't the GH2 enough? What should Panasonic do for GH3?
- Thread starter OldCorpse
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It's a nice clip, lpowell, no question. But what would make it even more interesting to me is if the speed of movement varied a bit, different angles of approach, different axis of movement etc., instead of it all going at the same snail's pace parallel to the subject. I'd like to see how the cam+hack handles variable speed movement, does it fall apart on faster moves and at which point - I don't mean whip pans, but c'mon a bit faster than the steady snail, a bit of an acceleration - deceleration - move in - parallel - pull back - whip around - into the shadows - out into brighter sunlight - sky to ground - people and skin tones etc.
Still, nice for what it is, no question. I don't need to be convinced, but it's a more fair exposition of the capabilities of the camera.
Still, nice for what it is, no question. I don't need to be convinced, but it's a more fair exposition of the capabilities of the camera.
Framerate, did you get offended by someone in the community? I was reading your posts in this thread, and haven't really come across an actual legitimate problem you can articulate in way that isn't just hot air (no offense). What exactly are the issues you face with using the gh2? You mentioned banding and lack of performance in low light... I would say the banding certainly isn't bad enough in any situation that I've come across to abandon the camera. Low light is an issue, when compared to say a nex-5/7 or other sony cameras, but holds its own with most any DSLR. I owned an HG10 myself as well, and while it was a decent camera, I wouldn't say it was more than that. Low light was quite good, but there was many a time where compression and interlacing artifacts were readily visible in less than complex scenes. I can still recall a few times where I actually had to abandon my footage because of it. These problems quite outweigh the very minor issues present in the gh2. No one is deluded about this camera... it's not the be all, end all, but to consider any of the camcorders you've listed in its stead, elicits the heartiest of laughs :happy:
LOLOL, I guess I should probably rethink that paint-drying demo of my new time-lapse patch :[
Unfortunately the most challenging video subjects to illustrate technical camera performance are often very boring, whether it's technical charts or extremely detailed moving subjects. ( like brick walls, wood grain, leaves and bushes blowing in the wind, etc... )
Yes, this might appear to be off topic for a thread about the features we would want in a future GH-3 camera, but we have to be sure we understand the capability of the current GH-2 camera to know what needs to be improved on. And Lpowell's new patch shows just what the GH-2 camera can actually do when highly tuned for motion/detail performance.
Keep in mind that this is a technical thread. ( Personally, I don't think equipment has much to do about telling better stories, that's strictly a filmmaker's job )
Boncrek
Well-known member
Just to be accurate:
"Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect."
-Wikipedia
So for some people, the choice of brushes or canvas is most definitely a part of Art.
...But do the "brushes" or the "canvas" matter if all most of us are interested in is the final product, the "painting" itself ?
I was thinking the other day that Christopher Nolan's "Inception" could have been shot on Super 8 film ( which would have made the SFX work absolute hell ), and I think it still would have been a very popular film.
The same goes for shooting "The Blair Witch" with IMAX cameras, which I doubt it would have improved the finished film in any noticeable way.
I've seen magazine covers shot with a $5 Diana camera that were incredibly beautiful.
It seems that in the right hands any tool can create beautiful "art".
Boncrek
Well-known member
You are absolutely right that in the right hands any tool can make beautiful art.
Once that point is reached by the artist however getting a better tool does indeed make for better art, that's why better tools are created.
That must be why Nolan chooses certain tools for all his films for example.
I'm a tech guy so I apologize for getting too caught up in the gear
As for the original post question: I dont have a GH2 but would love to own one so my experience is more than a little uninformed.
But I do read/watch alot of stuff via vimeo (455 likes and counting) and honestly the GH2 has all I could ever want in a DSLR/ILC.
Probably adding 1080 60P support via AVCHD 2.0 would be a good start.
Adding a headphone jack and full manual audio controls would be even better.
Also, Panasonic could offer an aoptional battery grip for those of us with big hands.
That way you have the m4/3 size advantage while also having an option for big fat finger people like me
In my mind the current competitor would possibly be the Olympus E-M5 which might have similar GH2 level video but better ergonomics.
Also the Sony A77 looks great on paper and since Im not invested in glass I could go either way.
Right now the sharper image, the uber hack, better native lenses and great prices are what are keeping me in the GH2 camp at the moment.
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I'm a tech guy so I apologize for getting too caught up in the gear
...I'm a tech guy too, though my normal process in mastering something is to absorb as much as I can until I reach a point where the gear doesn't matter any more, and then it becomes all about what I can do with the gear. ( it usually takes me a few years to get to this point, and I'm starting to feel like this is happening for me with video, where I am getting far more excited about the story I can tell than what the gear can do )
The analogy I used to use with photographic students is that when you first start photography it's like looking through a very dirty piece of glass, where you can see interesting things through this glass, but your vision is not clear. As your technique gets better the glass gets cleaner and you can start to see a lot more through this piece of glass. Eventually when you have mastered your technique, the glass is so clean it disappears, and all you are concerned with is what you can conceive in your head, because you know how to create almost any image you want at this point.
Matthew P
Well-known member
Framerate, whilst I do agree with a little bit of what you say, I think it's a little out of context. You seem to be wanting a nice image and picture quality straight from the camera - which is fine - but a lot of the people here are trying to get the most even and balanced picture possible, with the most detail (so they can do more to it in post). The canon camcorder you're referring to might have more contrast, or dynamic range, or better colours (as in, nice to look at but not particularly accurate), which make it more attractive to you yourself. Not everyone's needs are the same, however, and it's true that the GH series fills a niche; super detailed photo-like images that is quite unique in the sub $1000 market.
Perhaps you'd like the image to be more "punchy"? Easy to do in post...
Anyway, this IS the GH forum. It's all about the technology here. Cinematography is a different subject entirely, and is not attached to specific cameras. For those who are more interested in cinematography, good for them! But please don't tell the rest of us off for discussing technology too much, and squeezing the most out of this little beast of a camera.
You wouldn't wonder into a PC hardware forum and tell them to stop trying to get an extra 10MHz of processor power from their processor, would you?
Perhaps you'd like the image to be more "punchy"? Easy to do in post...
Anyway, this IS the GH forum. It's all about the technology here. Cinematography is a different subject entirely, and is not attached to specific cameras. For those who are more interested in cinematography, good for them! But please don't tell the rest of us off for discussing technology too much, and squeezing the most out of this little beast of a camera.
You wouldn't wonder into a PC hardware forum and tell them to stop trying to get an extra 10MHz of processor power from their processor, would you?
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John Caballero
Veteran
Yep, for people interested in discussing cinematography there is a section here in the forum just for that.
Bruce Watson
Veteran
Of course "we" need a GH3. And a GH4, and a 5, etc. The state of the art can't stand still; it always progresses. Nothing is ever good enough. Competition always finds a way to top an existing product. If a manufacturer sits on its laurels, a competitor comes along and rips the laurels away.
Now, if you decide that you don't want a GH3, that's your prerogative. It's your money so you get to decide how to spend it. But Panasonic has no real choice in making a GH3 or not. If they don't make it, somebody else will, and Panasonic will loose the sale. Just the way markets work.
How many GH2s have you lost due to weather so far?
Boncrek
Well-known member
I too would like weather sealing although i find that hard to do at this price point.
Its one thing DSLRs have over traditional video cameras, the ability to basically shoot in the rain etc unhindered.
If nothing else it give you piece of mind that gear wont electrocute you or worse.
No one really loses gear to weather nowadays cuz we're normally smart and don't go out at those times.
Weather sealing would open up more shooting opportunities.
Most important, realistic hardware things I can hope for:
1) Audio monitoring in camera
2) reduced rolling shutter (global shutter / CCD would be awesome, but the industry has veered away from that in small body / large chip cameras, so I'm not holding my breath).
3) higher density and clearer LCD and VF. I find the GH2 displays difficult to judge quality with, whereas Sony and Canon have shown that bright crisp displays are totally within reach.
I also have some suggestions/wishes on the software side of things, however this technically CAN be applied to the GH2 in a future update, since it should not require new hardware:
1) Composite video out while recording. I mean, come on- HDMI only?! This has got to be the strangest software decision I've seen on this camera. There are times with my other cameras that I use live view over standard def equipment (cheap TV monitor, wireless A/V hookup, SVGA projector, etc), and I used to be able to do this with the Canon DSLRs. I really find it baffling that Panasonic chose to disable any kind of composite standard def video connection. It even comes with the cables, but its for playback only. I mean, really?! I have to used an HDMI hookup through a converter box to bring it down to analog SD video, and that just isn't practical at all!
2) Focus zoom while recording. This is a big one for me. Magic Lantern on the T2i made pulling focus a breeze by offering a live zoom magnification window during filming. The ability to Autofocus is great and all, but we know how important manual focus is, and how difficult it can be on a small display. I like that before you shoot, you can press the wheel and zoom in to focus your subject. But that only helps if nothing moves out of focus during the shot.
If a GH3 upgrade is needed to get any of these features, I'll probably be there. Otherwise, I will likely stick to the GH2 and watch what happens on the APS-C side of things.
1) Audio monitoring in camera
2) reduced rolling shutter (global shutter / CCD would be awesome, but the industry has veered away from that in small body / large chip cameras, so I'm not holding my breath).
3) higher density and clearer LCD and VF. I find the GH2 displays difficult to judge quality with, whereas Sony and Canon have shown that bright crisp displays are totally within reach.
I also have some suggestions/wishes on the software side of things, however this technically CAN be applied to the GH2 in a future update, since it should not require new hardware:
1) Composite video out while recording. I mean, come on- HDMI only?! This has got to be the strangest software decision I've seen on this camera. There are times with my other cameras that I use live view over standard def equipment (cheap TV monitor, wireless A/V hookup, SVGA projector, etc), and I used to be able to do this with the Canon DSLRs. I really find it baffling that Panasonic chose to disable any kind of composite standard def video connection. It even comes with the cables, but its for playback only. I mean, really?! I have to used an HDMI hookup through a converter box to bring it down to analog SD video, and that just isn't practical at all!
2) Focus zoom while recording. This is a big one for me. Magic Lantern on the T2i made pulling focus a breeze by offering a live zoom magnification window during filming. The ability to Autofocus is great and all, but we know how important manual focus is, and how difficult it can be on a small display. I like that before you shoot, you can press the wheel and zoom in to focus your subject. But that only helps if nothing moves out of focus during the shot.
If a GH3 upgrade is needed to get any of these features, I'll probably be there. Otherwise, I will likely stick to the GH2 and watch what happens on the APS-C side of things.
How many times have you shot in the pouring rain? The 7D is weather sealed, wouldn't that be a better deal if you're wanting to shoot in the rain?
roxics
Veteran
I'm not a GH2 owner/shooter but I am a GH1 owner/shooter. I would like the see the following improvments in the GH3:
1. 3.5mm mic jack (clean as can be)
2. 3.5mm headphone jack w/volume control
3. Full audio control of mic levels during recording with line level ability.
4. High resolution LCD screen (very important to me)
5. No posterizing or whatever it's called when you see apparent halos around lights that look like concentric circles.
6. 1080/60p
What I would consider bonus features would be:
1. 4:2:2 color recording. If possible.
2. Greater latitude/less noise
3. Genlock (for 3D) yeah right lol
4. Something akin to the technicolor mode that Canon cameras have
I'm really not a fan of Panasonic color. I would love to see a whole new default color look similar to the Canon or Nikon look.
1. 3.5mm mic jack (clean as can be)
2. 3.5mm headphone jack w/volume control
3. Full audio control of mic levels during recording with line level ability.
4. High resolution LCD screen (very important to me)
5. No posterizing or whatever it's called when you see apparent halos around lights that look like concentric circles.
6. 1080/60p
What I would consider bonus features would be:
1. 4:2:2 color recording. If possible.
2. Greater latitude/less noise
3. Genlock (for 3D) yeah right lol
4. Something akin to the technicolor mode that Canon cameras have
I'm really not a fan of Panasonic color. I would love to see a whole new default color look similar to the Canon or Nikon look.
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roxics
Veteran
Also, I do shoot stills with my GH1. I realize most people here are after the video functionality but still photos are important to me too as I don't own multiple cameras. The quality on the GH1 is not nearly as nice as a Canon or Nikon for still photography. I don't know if this is because of the smaller sensor or what. But I doubt that becuase I've seen small sensors do great quality in other brands. However the image quality just isn't as crisp and detailed on the GH cameras. I would like to see them improve this if possible, so long as it doesn't take away from the video image.
With that said, more lens options on the pro end would be nice. Specifically something like a 12-35mm f2.8. But also more prime options.
With that said, more lens options on the pro end would be nice. Specifically something like a 12-35mm f2.8. But also more prime options.