Why can't my F3 do this?

From Reduser (Optitek):
Prices are in in the $1600-1700 range for the mount and in $1800-1900 range for the Optitron.
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Sorry, but that is way out of my league and probably most users here. Interesting that you didn't want to mention the price in this thread. Which kind of says it all as far as I am concerned.

You are going to get a lot of resistance at that price range, regardless of the justification against standard costs for PL High end lenses and systems. I am sure it is a great system, but not for personal ownership. I would say that you have not hit the sweet spot in your pricing. Probably needs to be around half of what you are asking in order for it to fly for the kind of user who is working with Canon lenses. Otherwise the folks with that kind of cash are using higher end cinema lenses anyhow.
 
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HA ha you are WAY off base with your market understanding.
I can't mention price per forum rules.
We match $20,000 systems in performance and surpass them in feature set (IS, weight, simplicity- one cable)
Not to mention the savings of turning still lenses into full out cine optics + more.
if you can't see that then by all means don't buy it...
We got a lot of very positive feedback from pros that do......
 
optitek said:
HA ha you are WAY off base with your market understanding.
I can't mention price per forum rules.
We match $20,000 systems in performance and surpass them in feature set (IS, weight, simplicity- one cable)
Not to mention the savings of turning still lenses into full out cine optics + more.
if you can't see that then by all means don't buy it...
We got a lot of very positive feedback from pros that do......
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So you can mention the price at REDuser, but not here?
Same owners, no?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great what you have made.
I am just not sure that the typical owner of L glass has the cash for what you are offering.
 
yoclay said:
From Reduser (Optitek):


Sorry, but that is way out of my league and probably most users here. Interesting that you didn't want to mention the price in this thread. Which kind of says it all as far as I am concerned.

You are going to get a lot of resistance at that price range, regardless of the justification against standard costs for PL High end lenses and systems. I am sure it is a great system, but not for personal ownership. I would say that you have not hit the sweet spot in your pricing. Probably needs to be around half of what you are asking in order for it to fly for the kind of user who is working with Canon lenses. Otherwise the folks with that kind of cash are using higher end cinema lenses anyhow.
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Only speaking for myself...i have no affiliation with Jacek (only respect for what he does)

How much does it cost for you to shoot/edit/market a small budget movie for 6 months? I have been there and done that - it is expensive and difficult right? Manufacturing is very similar. You start with an idea and develop it on paper, design, engineer, prototype, re-design, re-prototype, intitial production, some marketing, production run, etc. Next thing you know - 6 months has gone by and you have spent $100k on a tiny little item. After that, you get beet up by those thinking you are ripping them off when in reality - BREAKING EVEN is considered a success. Small manufacturers have built the entire cinema business, now that the low-end is semi-commoditized - the expectation for prices to be inline with massively mass produced products is silly.

I have absolutely no interest in chasing pricing all the way to the bottom. I shoot for making something great, not cheap. Everything I have seen from Jacek is the same way. Are you a pro or an enthusiast? I test marketed and advanced EF and Nikon mount for around $1200 and got nothing but grief because they could go and get a Metabones E to EF for $400. I canceled the product and started selling custom F65 systems. Be careful what you wish for, if pricing is the most important thing, your only choices in the future will be cheap crap that makes crap pictures.
 
There's only so cheap that this stuff can get. Pulling remote focus is not for hobbyists. Those who can't afford it, don't get to have it. You can keep shooting Steadicam footage at a fixed focus on wide lenses.

On the other side of the coin--Jacek, I would caution being too aggressive about comparing yourself to the industry standards until you have a product in general release. A number of companies have tried and failed to bring new remote lens control systems to market in the last five years, and a few have embarrassed themselves publicly on message boards by claiming to match or outperform units like the Preston, or even the Bartech. Those who have been around a few years may be able to guess at one such company that I'm thinking of, who took deposits and didn't end up delivering...plenty of bold claims prior to that, though.
 
Carlos thank you for the support you are 100% correct..
Admit One said:
Is the mount on the F3 the same as the F5/55 (FZ)?
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Yes the FZ mount is the same on F5/F55
If it wasn't for Sandy Sony would have had a demo unit already.
They were very enthusiastic about this technology and definitely will endorse us.
Now we have to wait until next week because of the NJ Sandy aftermath.
Will definitely keep everyone posted on their impressions.

On a different subject:
We make our claims because we believe they are true.
We have successfully provided Nikon mount solution (the original ProLock) for various cameras- F3 included for a few years.
But you are right- only time will tell if our conviction was warranted. We are ready...
 
CharlesPapert said:
A number of companies have tried and failed to bring new remote lens control systems to market in the last five years, and a few have embarrassed themselves publicly on message boards by claiming to match or outperform units like the Preston, or even the Bartech. Those who have been around a few years may be able to guess at one such company that I'm thinking of, who took deposits and didn't end up delivering...plenty of bold claims prior to that, though.
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I think you are talking about companies that wanted to bring in traditional systems with controllers, motors, transceivers, etc...
We don't do that- instead we utilize existing motors inside the Canon EF lenses..
check the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJrgfYLhVpk
 
No, Charles means Birger. And another one that had serious difficulties and it almost sank him, but redeemed himself in other ways.
 
I don't know- I think he meant the other one...
Anyway only the market (that means you guys and girls) can deliver the ultimate judgement- with your wallets!!!!
All I know is that this product will last at least through the F5/F55 line life span...
 
Let the mystery remain who I was referring to, but anyway, a device that can deliver the immediate response, high resolution and reliable transmission required to provide a truly responsive focus pulling experience via RF has proven to be elusive in the low budget arena. The motors are only one part of the puzzle. It's perfectly fine to deliver performance that is commensurate with a given price point, but when one suggests that it is comparable to the best systems available, there's a lot of parameters to measure up to. Has it been tested under all temperatures and atmospheric conditions found on the planet, in multiple environments that have challenging RF conditions, how well does it reject transients and other devices operating on similar frequencies...I'm sure one of the manufacturers of a high-end system would be able to name many times more parameters than these.

It would be nice to be able to see how well it works but the closeup on the F3 screen in the Youtube video is ironically lacking in the focus department. I know it's a "quick" intro video but you can't see at all what the system can actually do, unless this is by design. The other note is that the hand unit looks to be awkward to hold--not much of a grip for the left hand?

Again--I'm not trying to bust balls, I do wish you the best with the rollout but my red flag goes up when a new product that isn't yet out in the wild is promoted as equivalent or better than the tried-and-true industry standard. Let me know if you have any demos scheduled in the LA area--if I like what I see, I'll be right back here indicating as such.
 
Editman Sweden said:
Do you need the FF unit to power the adapter? That is will it work to adjust the iris just by using the adapter?
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No You don't
All you need is power to control the iris.
You won't know the stop however.
Which doesn't really matter if you watch the histogram, scopes, zebras, etc..
Don't forget this is a positive locking mount that , mechanically turns Canons EF mount into PL mount...:-Mark-14(DBG)
 
So you need to power the adapter with an external power source to make it work but you don't need the FF unit? Like the LiveLens from Redrock that uses an external battery? How do you control the iris when you use the adapter on its own? Voltage/power drain? Is IS also supported?

When you say PL lock, do EF lenses attach by not using the EF mount but something else?

I do think a readout of F-stop can be very comforting when you set up a shoot.
 
I have pulled apart a number of EF lenses, designed and built a controller, and did some tests. I have also designed super high resolution motion systems so I understand what is happening. While I am not a Canon specific expert, I did learn some of the critical basics. Canon uses a motion controller that is built into the lens, all you can do from the outside is send a position request to the lens and it will decide how to get to that position. This scheme works great with stills, but sucks for pulling focus because it is hard to trick the lenses into smooth motion, and each lens has something of a personality - none are the same. This makes it very difficult to create any table or algorithm to give consistent results. Not having direct access to the motors is a challenge.

If you modified the control system to bypass the canon controls and built a custom controller, it may work. The fact remains that the steppers and the associated mechanics in the lenses is not goo for this purpose, even the higher end models were designed for super fast indexing, NOT smooth focus following. In my opinion, by the time you get something that is workable it is too much work. I would rather re-house the glass with tight and polished cams and use external servos instead of bringing a knife to a gun fight. It may be about the same amount of work, but the results would be guaranteed at least.
 
Editman Sweden said:
So you need to power the adapter with an external power source to make it work but you don't need the FF unit? Like the LiveLens from Redrock that uses an external battery? How do you control the iris when you use the adapter on its own? Voltage/power drain? Is IS also supported?

When you say PL lock, do EF lenses attach by not using the EF mount but something else?

I do think a readout of F-stop can be very comforting when you set up a shoot.
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Yes you do need external power (for now)
There are buttons on the mount body to control iris. I was even thinking to put a traditional iris ring there but most users wouldn't use it since we have the slider on the OptiTron.
The lens locking mechanism will positively lock unmodified, stock Canon EF mount lenses. Much like PL mount on cameras lock PL lenses. And that is a big part of cinevising lenses IMO. All the slop that's inherent for still cameras does not land itself to motion work so well....
 
rx8pilot said:
I have pulled apart a number of EF lenses, designed and built a controller, and did some tests. I have also designed super high resolution motion systems so I understand what is happening. While I am not a Canon specific expert, I did learn some of the critical basics. Canon uses a motion controller that is built into the lens, all you can do from the outside is send a position request to the lens and it will decide how to get to that position. This scheme works great with stills, but sucks for pulling focus because it is hard to trick the lenses into smooth motion, and each lens has something of a personality - none are the same. This makes it very difficult to create any table or algorithm to give consistent results. Not having direct access to the motors is a challenge.

If you modified the control system to bypass the canon controls and built a custom controller, it may work. The fact remains that the steppers and the associated mechanics in the lenses is not goo for this purpose, even the higher end models were designed for super fast indexing, NOT smooth focus following. In my opinion, by the time you get something that is workable it is too much work. I would rather re-house the glass with tight and polished cams and use external servos instead of bringing a knife to a gun fight. It may be about the same amount of work, but the results would be guaranteed at least.
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Carlos we resolved these issues- hence the product launch.
The smooth operation and repeatibility were the two fundamental specs we needed to meet to have a product.
The Optitron's mechanical operation is designed to make the "drive by wire " tech completely transparent to the operator (focus puller)
It feels and responds very similar to a mechanical FF. That's my (primary) area of expertise- mechanical design.
We added the speed crank socket and adjustable drag on the knob so the focus pullers get the feel they desire.
 
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