John Andersson
Well-known member
IS support?
Why can't my F3 do this?
- Thread starter lasikdenver
- Start date
Cory Braun
Well-known member
I had the Nikon Optitek adapter for my F3 and now have one for my RED One, and they are great products. Also the customer service is great, Jacek is extremely helpful with any questions that you have.
Hats off to you! Maybe I gave up too early. ;-)
Feedback trickling in:
3 setups an hour, 24 setups a day- 6 days.
Try that (!) with PL lenses.
Pics coming soon- it's a national campaign for a big consumer product corporation.
We are going to be post BTS pics and videos here.
Welcome to the brave new world of super light- super mobile production!!!
3 setups an hour, 24 setups a day- 6 days.
Try that (!) with PL lenses.
Pics coming soon- it's a national campaign for a big consumer product corporation.
We are going to be post BTS pics and videos here.
Welcome to the brave new world of super light- super mobile production!!!
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Uh Jacek, wrong tack. Those statistics are meaningless without knowing what was being shot. I've done twice that many setups a day with PL lenses (sadly) but I wouldn't use that as a comparison in terms of what type of lenses were in use. The mobility of a camera with a Canon 24-70 on it vs., say an Optimo 30-80 is not massively different. It would make a difference in a real run-and-gun situation or squeezing cameras into places where every inch or ounce counts--but that's just a fraction of the overall type of filming done today.
Where I think your system will shine is in the budgetary arena. It's radically cheaper to rent or own a package with motorized EF lenses than PL, and for the first time they are going to be functional for focus pulling in the same fashion. That's certainly a big deal. There are still going to be drawbacks to using still lenses, such as zoom tracking/parfocal issues and the limited range of the higher end lenses, but those are manageable for many people.
I hope that the forthcoming videos will answer some of the questions that have been raised. I would personally like to see what the response is like--how quickly the motors react to the input from the controller, how close to 1-1 control one gets (i.e. the simulation of turning a manual follow focus knob and having instaneous control of the lens). Even a scrappy Youtube video would show that--this time with the image in focus, please.
Where I think your system will shine is in the budgetary arena. It's radically cheaper to rent or own a package with motorized EF lenses than PL, and for the first time they are going to be functional for focus pulling in the same fashion. That's certainly a big deal. There are still going to be drawbacks to using still lenses, such as zoom tracking/parfocal issues and the limited range of the higher end lenses, but those are manageable for many people.
I hope that the forthcoming videos will answer some of the questions that have been raised. I would personally like to see what the response is like--how quickly the motors react to the input from the controller, how close to 1-1 control one gets (i.e. the simulation of turning a manual follow focus knob and having instaneous control of the lens). Even a scrappy Youtube video would show that--this time with the image in focus, please.
Charles thank you!!
You are absolutely right the stats without knowing the specifics are moot. I was told in that configuration this pace (scheduling) would be nearly impossible with PL glass.
When pictures and videos are available we'll decide ourselves. They are under NDA so they have to be careful not to show any brand logos.
Just to point out the 30-80 Angie example : removing focus, iris motors, meshing them back, calibrating takes time. Not much if your AC is proficient, but with 3 setups per hr it adds up- just sayin.. not to mention the 2-3 axis system cost, weight, complexity and power needed.
Yes I agree the still zooms are "vari primes" at their best. Nothing wrong with that- zooming during roll is not popular any more- it was the 80's thing...
Yes budgetary is right but also you couldn't get to this weight and simplicity level with PL glass no matter how much you spend- I was told that this was the crucial feature as I'm here in Hollywood (or close to it) and my clients consider the price secondary to things like Quality, reliability or features...
You are absolutely correct (again?!!!) the video does not do it justice- I am not happy with it - we had shot a few videos with much better end results before... We are re shooting everything this week....
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Well, the key is not having to swap lenses and part of that is being able to live on zooms that have a substantial range, if speed is an important factor. On my shows I generally shoot with the 18-80 and 45-250 Aluras on A and B camera and even with that range (longer than any f2.8 still zoom) we still have to compromise occasionally. The 12-1 Optimo is great in this regard. Swapping lenses, no matter how quickly, is still a speed factor. We will often "steal" setups while the camera remains rolling by simply punching in and getting takes with a longer focal length.
Regarding zooming not being popular--nope, still done, just differently than it was back in the zoom-happy 70's. Little snappy zooms abound in procedurals, action genre and even comedy ("Modern Family"). Even slow push-ins for emphasis, just like back in the day.
Well look, I'm in LA too and would be interested to come evaluate the system.
That's a great inside from a working pro- thanks. I don't think 18-80 or 45-250 compare to a still lens setup in any significant way. They are high quality, true cine zooms. I can appreciate that. I was raised (as a lens tech) in Panavision NY so my first encounter with optics are cine optics. It left a long lasting impression. But times are changing. The cameras are tiny and light.
Cine lenses became "boat anchors" for the cameras. They are getting more expensive and the cameras are getting cheaper. You could argue that about the latest variety of the digi Angies, the Canons or even the Fujis. But they all (still) over $20k a pop. That's too much for a $5K, 10K even 20K cameras. And, being intimately familiar with the (cine) lens manufacturing process ( I also worked for a lens manufacturer for a number of years) I just don't see that changing much. The marked is tiny and one can only do so much to stream line precision machined, hand assembled product manufacturing process. The pricing of cine lenses is not a conspiracy- it just takes a lot of work by a very skilled professionals to build a proper cine lens- hence the price...
And they always will be big and heavy- that's just the way they are designed.
We offer new perspective on this subject that reflects the new, ultra mobile and efficient approach. Mostly for owner operators that instead of a truck can bring a proverbial backpack and compete with their skill, vision and talent- not the bigger zoom, on bigger camera, on beeffier tripod and head.
The wonderful tech that's already present inside the AF lenses is begging to be used, tech savy DPs are begging to use it, we just make it happen...
This type of cinematography is just starting, but I believe it's going to grow very rapidly, with that "fat girl from Ohio" Scorsese's comment getting closer and closer to reality with every product like ours...
Cine lenses became "boat anchors" for the cameras. They are getting more expensive and the cameras are getting cheaper. You could argue that about the latest variety of the digi Angies, the Canons or even the Fujis. But they all (still) over $20k a pop. That's too much for a $5K, 10K even 20K cameras. And, being intimately familiar with the (cine) lens manufacturing process ( I also worked for a lens manufacturer for a number of years) I just don't see that changing much. The marked is tiny and one can only do so much to stream line precision machined, hand assembled product manufacturing process. The pricing of cine lenses is not a conspiracy- it just takes a lot of work by a very skilled professionals to build a proper cine lens- hence the price...
And they always will be big and heavy- that's just the way they are designed.
We offer new perspective on this subject that reflects the new, ultra mobile and efficient approach. Mostly for owner operators that instead of a truck can bring a proverbial backpack and compete with their skill, vision and talent- not the bigger zoom, on bigger camera, on beeffier tripod and head.
The wonderful tech that's already present inside the AF lenses is begging to be used, tech savy DPs are begging to use it, we just make it happen...
This type of cinematography is just starting, but I believe it's going to grow very rapidly, with that "fat girl from Ohio" Scorsese's comment getting closer and closer to reality with every product like ours...
Just to be clear this mount will transfer seamlessly to the new F5/F55 cameras
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJrgfYLhVpk :happy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJrgfYLhVpk :happy:
Last edited:
lasikdenver
Well-known member
Hi Jacek,
Although the PL primes are not too big, the zooms certainly are, so I think you are on the right path. Is there any reason to suspect that those of us who own a Prolock could have it "upgraded" to the wired version and thus save a little on the new system? Also, let us know when the Nikon version is progressing. Thanks.
Although the PL primes are not too big, the zooms certainly are, so I think you are on the right path. Is there any reason to suspect that those of us who own a Prolock could have it "upgraded" to the wired version and thus save a little on the new system? Also, let us know when the Nikon version is progressing. Thanks.
nyvz
Veteran
I agree it is often not necessary, but with RED's mount you get lens metadata embedded automatically in all footage, and you can set/check aperture and focus remotely using a redmote, which can be incredibly useful.
Setting focus has a very limited use in our industry. Pulling focus is what is needed. Redmote is not suitable for that...
Here is a reprint from Reduser- this system is used on the Red Epic but since it's stand- alone it will be the same on the F3:
"We've had an Optitron on location for the past 2 weeks. Here's a rundown of our experiences and a few photos. I had hoped to share earlier, but I’m finally taking a break this weekend.
Background:
I’ve been surveying all the forums and posts- thinking about purchasing a set of PL cine lenses (primes) for about 10 months. Size, coverage, and weight being the most critical factor. I often shot on Zeiss MKIII superspeeds, Angineux’s, Cooke’s , etc.
I had recently shot a small horror short for a client (for Halloween) with the prolock Nikon mount and Nikon primes. We shot at night with very little light- just a few LEDS, and a Small HMI on a boom to simulate the moon. I was impressed with the Nikon primes, but focusing them manually was very difficult.
We had received approval from a client on a very intense lifestyle shoot. In 4 days we’d cover 8 locations, 25+ talent. I needed glass that was fast, lightweight and covered everything from 14-200mm because of the various camera POV’s we needed for the project.
I was about to rent a large package of PL glass, when I came across this tread. Only having 4 days till first shot, I contacted Jacek and he was kind enough to send us a optitron for a few day test prior to shooting. PL glass on hold as backup.
We selected the following lenses for our tests: 14mm rectilinear f2.8 / 24,50,85 1.4 primes /100mm F2 macro and a 70-200 L 2.8 IS2.
The big test for me was shooting with all the glass wide open for the shallowest DOF. I wanted to see repeatability of marks, and also if there was any stepping in the focus motors. All the lenses passed, with no discernable steps ( especially when you can reprogram end stops on the Optitron.) and the lenses were repeatable to focus marks on the ring. We racked focus like crazy, changed lenses, etc and every time the marks were accurate.
PASS
Now we were about to battle test the mount and focus on our shoot. And honestly, this was probably one of the most intense shoots I can ever remember. Our first day was 24-30 setups, everything shot verite style. Crew call was 4:15 AM- city streets, cyclists, urban alleys, natural settings in a forest of trees, urban skateboarding and a Xgames style skate park. Crew, producers and client were in chase mode all day- even our AC’s were on their toes keeping up with the pace. INTENSE! Day 2 and 3 were interiors and homes, backyards and neighborhoods. Day 4 was a finale as intense as day 1.
The Optitron passed and excelled. Not only in situations where we were focusing from mark to mark, but also the most brutal moments, where we were floating with talent … handheld, constantly rack focusing in the moment, drifting from reaction to reaction. It’s this type of organic shooting that usually drives AC’s nuts.
It’s now 5 days into post and the footage is looking amazing. Meanwhile, we’re back out shooting with the canon glass and the Optitron on 3 more projects.
I am completely thrilled with the images we captured. I’m sold on shooting still glass in almost all situations. The Optitron gave us the repeatability and confidence for focus, the Canon glass gave is the ability to be ultra light and move fast and shoot almost anywhere with minimal lighting… all at an incredible pace."
"We've had an Optitron on location for the past 2 weeks. Here's a rundown of our experiences and a few photos. I had hoped to share earlier, but I’m finally taking a break this weekend.
Background:
I’ve been surveying all the forums and posts- thinking about purchasing a set of PL cine lenses (primes) for about 10 months. Size, coverage, and weight being the most critical factor. I often shot on Zeiss MKIII superspeeds, Angineux’s, Cooke’s , etc.
I had recently shot a small horror short for a client (for Halloween) with the prolock Nikon mount and Nikon primes. We shot at night with very little light- just a few LEDS, and a Small HMI on a boom to simulate the moon. I was impressed with the Nikon primes, but focusing them manually was very difficult.
We had received approval from a client on a very intense lifestyle shoot. In 4 days we’d cover 8 locations, 25+ talent. I needed glass that was fast, lightweight and covered everything from 14-200mm because of the various camera POV’s we needed for the project.
I was about to rent a large package of PL glass, when I came across this tread. Only having 4 days till first shot, I contacted Jacek and he was kind enough to send us a optitron for a few day test prior to shooting. PL glass on hold as backup.
We selected the following lenses for our tests: 14mm rectilinear f2.8 / 24,50,85 1.4 primes /100mm F2 macro and a 70-200 L 2.8 IS2.
The big test for me was shooting with all the glass wide open for the shallowest DOF. I wanted to see repeatability of marks, and also if there was any stepping in the focus motors. All the lenses passed, with no discernable steps ( especially when you can reprogram end stops on the Optitron.) and the lenses were repeatable to focus marks on the ring. We racked focus like crazy, changed lenses, etc and every time the marks were accurate.
PASS
Now we were about to battle test the mount and focus on our shoot. And honestly, this was probably one of the most intense shoots I can ever remember. Our first day was 24-30 setups, everything shot verite style. Crew call was 4:15 AM- city streets, cyclists, urban alleys, natural settings in a forest of trees, urban skateboarding and a Xgames style skate park. Crew, producers and client were in chase mode all day- even our AC’s were on their toes keeping up with the pace. INTENSE! Day 2 and 3 were interiors and homes, backyards and neighborhoods. Day 4 was a finale as intense as day 1.
The Optitron passed and excelled. Not only in situations where we were focusing from mark to mark, but also the most brutal moments, where we were floating with talent … handheld, constantly rack focusing in the moment, drifting from reaction to reaction. It’s this type of organic shooting that usually drives AC’s nuts.
It’s now 5 days into post and the footage is looking amazing. Meanwhile, we’re back out shooting with the canon glass and the Optitron on 3 more projects.
I am completely thrilled with the images we captured. I’m sold on shooting still glass in almost all situations. The Optitron gave us the repeatability and confidence for focus, the Canon glass gave is the ability to be ultra light and move fast and shoot almost anywhere with minimal lighting… all at an incredible pace."
Just a reminder- the future is here 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJrgfYLhVpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJrgfYLhVpk
starcentral
Veteran
How much? What is the main difference of the Optiek smart mount system and say for example the one MTF is selling?
The MTF does not control focus- you still need a gear on the lens and a mechanical follow focus.
The Optitron does everything "by wire" focus and iris. It also has more conventional slider for iris control , as well as buttons like the MTF but on the mount.
To use the ProLock mount like MTF you don't even need the Optitron- just supply power to the mount. On top of that the ProLock-i mount has the lens positive locking unlike the MTF which is a conventional pressure based bayonet mount much like on canon camera. ProLock-i is a positive locking mount - think of it as a PL mount for unmodified Canon EF mounted lenses.
Instead of doing a PL lens converson we made PL mount for the standard EF Canon mount.
The Optitron does everything "by wire" focus and iris. It also has more conventional slider for iris control , as well as buttons like the MTF but on the mount.
To use the ProLock mount like MTF you don't even need the Optitron- just supply power to the mount. On top of that the ProLock-i mount has the lens positive locking unlike the MTF which is a conventional pressure based bayonet mount much like on canon camera. ProLock-i is a positive locking mount - think of it as a PL mount for unmodified Canon EF mounted lenses.
Instead of doing a PL lens converson we made PL mount for the standard EF Canon mount.