General Think I made the wrong camera choice...

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JohnFB

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I've been researching alot of camcorders for a month or two even and finally bit the bullet and ordered a HF S20 a few days ago, it's due here on the tenth. The problem is, right after I ordered it I found out about DSLRs (no idea how I could of missed these while researching, I seen them before but just thought it would be shi*ty video cause it's a picture camera)

Anyway, so I found out about DSLRs and I've been reading up about them the past 2 days and my god they totally blow the camcorders I've seen out of the water! I've read bad and good reviews but all the bad reviews end up saying good things about them. I found out HOUSE S06 EP21 was shot on 5D MKII so there must be something special about these!

I've never owned a camera yet, but I've edited alot footage and wanted to get my own to start doing my own things.

Anyway, trying to not make this post too long, my original reasons to buy a HF S20 were:

Access to manual controls ( T2i has full manual controls )
Picture quality ( T2i wins here also )
24P, and 30P ( T2i has both also.. )
Also the T2i takes better pictures, has 35mm shallow DOF and interchangeable lenses (so you can invest in lenses and upgrade the body later), AND it's better in lowlight.

To me, I'm thinking I should return my HF S20 as soon as it gets here and order a T2i. I never planned to film "live" stuff or events anyway, and that seems to be the only upside to HF S20 compared to a T2i besides the ease of use the S20 has, but I planned to use manual controls anyway.

So in my eyes, the T2i is 100% better at everything I needed, is there any faults to DSLRs compared to cmos camcorders for shooting planned scenes?

I heard the audio is bad on DSLRs but I was getting a separate recorder and boom mic anyway for my HF S20...




Anyway, I had a few questions about the T2i:

I heard about an overheating issue, how do you prevent it from overheating?

I also heard you can only shoot 13 minutes of video then it stops. I don't get it. Does the SDHC card get full, or does the camera just stop recording at 13minutes, can't you just start recording again?

I heard it's REALLY hard to get use to using it, and shooting with it requires alot of tricks... But it's full manual controls right? Doesn't one only need the knowledge of how f-stops/fov/focus/dof/aperture and all that stuff work together to use it? Isn't it more like one of those expensive cameras where you adjust each ring to compensate for the other?

About 48MBPS, is it harder to edit with then the 24mbps avchd files (4GB ram 3.8GHZ 3 core phenom II is my current rig) I can edit the 24MBPS files smoothly in Sony Vegas.

Also I heard of aliasing and jello effect issues, but this affects all CMOS sensors, so the HF s20 should have the same problems I think...


What do you guys think I should do? I have 14 days to return my S20 when it gets here on the 8th. I'm really kinda worn out here I was all finally relived I decided to get a camera finally then I find this DSLR.
 
Don't go with a full manual control camera for your first. You need to learn and get expirence shooting learning angles, and getting good at storytelling (since you said you're not filming live events)

Stick with that HS20 (or similar consumer camcorder) and learn what to shoot, and after all, picture isn't everything when it comes to a good story.
 
With the DSLR's you kind of have to learn to be a photographer first, you can't just pick it up and shoot. I'm not sure I agree with Shigeta, but I think you need to be aware that these cameras have a steep learning curve. That being said I would never go back to a standard video camera unless it has interchangable lenses and a larger sensor.
 
Shigeta said:
Don't go with a full manual control camera for your first. You need to learn and get expirence shooting learning angles, and getting good at storytelling (since you said you're not filming live events)

Stick with that HS20 (or similar consumer camcorder) and learn what to shoot, and after all, picture isn't everything when it comes to a good story.
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Quoted because you can't really say it better. I started with an HF100 and did a film and a few short things, I learned a ton, I now own a T2i and I am having to learn more, which is fine I love it, but if I had jumped straight to a dslr I could have easily been overwhelmed.
 
JohnFB said:
I heard about an overheating issue, how do you prevent it from overheating?
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Seems to me like a typical internet talky. Yeah, it can overheat. Gotta put things in perspective. It's not a Microsoft product anno 2005 that gets Red Rings of Death and you have to throw it away when it overheats - you turn the camera off and let it cool down. I would be more concerned about the build quality and stuff like that, cus no, every 550D isn't a cooking jar.

And what I mean by internet talky is that I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the 550D owners NEVER will experience overheat issues, and hell, I'd be excited the day I get a temperature bar on my screen!


JohnFB said:
I also heard you can only shoot 13 minutes of video then it stops. I don't get it. Does the SDHC card get full, or does the camera just stop recording at 13minutes, can't you just start recording again?
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It's a file system limitation. But are you really gonna shoot over 10 minutes? And if you do, is it considered highly inpractical to just press record again? (yes, 550D has a button for that). And if you're thinking time lapses etc, you do that with stills, not video.

JohnFB said:
Isn't it more like one of those expensive cameras where you adjust each ring to compensate for the other?
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It's not run-and-gun. It takes practice to get decent results. There is frustration to be found, but in the end, it's probably worth it!
 
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Dont listen to no sayers ,sell your camcorder and buy t2i,learn it and be happy with what you want,and its clearly visible that you want it badly,you can sell it later anyway if you wont like it.
You have to turn off cam between takes and you wont get overheating issues.Its more like a filmmaking cam not suitable for "ill shoot random shi* today through whole 3 hours on my minidv tape in lp mode just because i can" style.
Just look at this:shocked:

Its 7D,video is basically the same as t2i/550D.
 
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Hey guys, thanks for the input! I looked up some more reviews and I will definitely be buying it now, I love challenges, I think it will be fun even if it is frustrating to learn this camera, and the glass investment is a huge point for it as I can always upgrade a few years when they release something better and still use all my lenses.

Shigeta, I know story is the foremost important part of movies and stuff, and I have setup shots before but I just haven't owned my own camera yet, but eitherway thanks for the advice.

my camera hasn't shipped yet but oh god I hope I can catch B&H before it ships tomorrow, their customer service opens at 9AM and I can't find a way to cancel the order on the site.

Oh yeah, the T2i is sold out everywhere I looked besides some seller on Amazon, but I'd rather buy from a company.
 
Since you have decided to go with the T2i you should probably do some research into the world of photography. Maybe buy a book on the basics of what you mentioned at the top:
f-stops/fov/focus/dof/aperture. Remember to READ THE MANUAL!!!! Read it first so you know what all the knobs dials and menus are for.

This information will be helpful to you as your choice of camera is more like a still camera than a video camera. If you will primarily be setting up your shots, ie. cinema style shooting, than the T2i will be a better camera for you. If you just want to run and gun, news style, shooting on vacation, family, fast paced subjects than as a beginner, probably a video style camcorder would be better as it is easier to focus, zoom and has built in ND etc. which you will have to add to the T2i.

Needless to say with either camera, if you take the time to research about the craft of photography / videography you will make much better video.

You seem to be interested and that is always good. Have fun!
 
All the above posts are very good and informative, but nobody has mentioned the 2 major drawbacks of using a DSLR for video. The spacial aliasing and moire problems on these cameras are horrendous. Its all down to the downconversion from 18 mp stills to HD video, Canon have not done a very good job of implementing this. Dont get me wrong, I have a 550D and love it, I use it sometimes alongside my EX1. As long as you are aware of the problems, and use the camera within its limitations it is capable of producing some stunning results. But the problems are there, and very real. They are capable of rendering a good shot completely unusable. Oh and they do overheat, pretty regularly, thats not generally a problem, as mentioned above, simply switch off for a minute or two and let things cool down. The next generation of DSLRs should be very interesting indeed.
 
The 2ti ISN'T a camcorder.

If you need a camcorder with everything that goes with that, ie professional audio inputs and monitoring, then get one., or keep the one you have,
 
Hey John!

I've had no over-heating issues with my T2i yet and the 12 minute limitation isn't a problem (for me) I actually like having the limit, it forces me to be more productive while shooting.

I've used the GH1 (excellent camera) the 7D (excellent camera) and preferred the T2i. That's just MY personal preference.

The only problem with DSLR film-making (in my humble opinion) is the cost, especially if you're not a professional. This is something you need to think about.

It costs alot of money for lenses, video-tripods, follow-focus systems and so on not to mention editing/color grading software too. For the total price of a DSLR camera + all the equipment required to use it for video you could get yourself an epic video camera instead.

Once you get your DSLR you'll find yourself adding to it each month. So you'll always be learning and mastering new gear.

You'll probably go through a phase of buying used lenses from ebay only to realise they suck in video mode too.

In short, once you buy a DSLR with the intention of filming with it the spending never stops. The learning never stops. The frustration never stops. Adding to your DSLR rig can become a very expensive addiction lol

But the end results are always worth it.

DSLR's are best suited for over-imaginative/creative types. I'm a musician, so I approach my T2i like it's a musical instrument, so whenever it's in my hands I'm thinking in creative terms.

So dont bother buying one just to film days out with your family or whatever, they'll just get excited and move in and out of focus on the day and ruin your "vision" lol

Remember, not many regular people use Vimeo and not many regular people choose to watch things in HD on youtube either.

I adore my T2i and love DSLR film-making. I have something to focus on everyday and something to look forward to each pay day. It's great.
 
If you order a T2i it'll probably come with a crappy flash card. You'll ignore this and shoot with it anyway expecting quality results lol shooting video on a slow card is pointless, the camera doesn't hack it.

You'll have to buy faster cards.

Also, you'll innocently assume the stock lens will do everything you need in video. It wont. You'll need several other lenses and you'll have to learn how to use them too. You'll also have to buy additional batteries for your T2i because video mode really sucks up on the juice.

Auto-focus while recording in video mode is also pointless on a Canon DSLR. It isn't a point and shoot camcorder. So you'll have to buy a follow-focus and rail system in addition to a sturdy video tripod. This will cost you even more money and carrying that stuff around isn't fun either.

Forget about hand-held video shooting too. Unless you have a constant aperture zoom lens forget about zooming while recording video too.

The sound is bad, you'll have to buy an external microphone and even that isn't great. Most of these guys record sound separately.

You'll also need a Fader ND and a bunch of other gear too. Lot's of people online are making it seem like you just buy a DSLR and wham, you're now Stanley Kubrick. Without the additional equipment, flash cards, filters, lenses, editing/color grading software's and so on, forget it! lol just stick with a video camcorder.
 
Just to chime in on the overheating issue: it does happen. And if you live where it's hot (like Oklahoma), and shoot outside, it WILL happen. I'm working on a feature with another DVXUser right now, and we're using two T2i's. Great, great camera. However, we've had multiple instances of overheating since we were shooting outside in 95 to 100 degree weather. It's not biggie, though. Just turn it off, wait 5 minutes, then go again. If overheating seems like something that could happen a lot where you are, you may want to check out the 7D instead. I HEAR (that's not experience, just what I hear) the 7D does better. A girl from a local camera shop had a guy heading to Afghanistan come it WILL overheat. Indoors, not so much.
 
I have an HV30 and an HFS200 as well. It all comes down to what you are recording. I recorded a lot of stuff on the HV30 and HFS200 but was never satisfied with the results. I bought a 7D and have NEVER been happier.

VERY LITTLE of my experience with my burrito cams helped out with my 7D as the camera was so much more configurable for the shots I was getting. Plus, the lens choices are just AWESOME. Even the kit lens works pretty darn well for most things.

Don't get me wrong, I had fun with the little camcorders, but the experience I got with the 7D is SO MUCH more satisfying in my opinion. And, it will translate into my S35 sensor camera I purchase next year.

People have gotten AMAZING results with the burritos as well, many with the 35mm adapters (which I built one as well), but I like to use a lot of found light and the sensitivity on any of the DSLRs is amazing. I shoot at night with a 30mm F1.4 Sigma lens and the results are AWESOME.

I recommend getting the T2I as well.
 
Phillip Bloom is a creative genius IMO and I'm a huge fan of his work. Rather than emulate what he does or try to copy it, I watch his videos and learn about the gear he used to get the job done instead.

He's the best guy online to learn from IMO. He seems like a really nice guy too. Unlike many of the catty, over-competitive film-makers out there who are snobby, cut-throat-ambitious and rude, he'll always answer your questions if you mail him.

I watch his DSLR videos and google info on the gear he used. It's all well and good saying "DSLR film-making is cheap" but when you see the price of some of those lenses and rigs you realise it isn't cheap and it isn't affordable either, not unless you're a professional.

I'm not a professional, I'm just a creative soul who enjoys expressing himself. If you're like me, buy a DSLR. It's like making music with images.
 
As someone already mentioned, you'll need to learn about aliasing and moire, and be aware of what situations (brick walls, tweed jackets, etc) provoke the sensor so you can avoid that nasty situation. You'll need to know how to set a picture style ie; neutral picture style, contrast turned down, sharpnes turned down but not off, etc) that also avoids aliasing and moire. Learn the camera's limitations and be a photgrapher in your approach to lighting and you can walk away with an image worth a million bucks.

Remember, it's lighting, lighting, lighting.

...and the extras add up. A good viefinder for a DSLR can run half the price of the camera you just bought and that's just the beginning.
 
f64manray said:
A
...and the extras add up. A good viefinder for a DSLR can run half the price of the camera you just bought and that's just the beginning.
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Yeah, I learned this two days ago shooting in some amazingly bright sun. I NEED a viewfinder for outdoor shooting period.
 
If you have a laptop you can use it as an external monitor for your T2i BUT unless it's powerful the moving images from the camera will lag and jitter on the screen.

You can also control the T2i in video mode through your PC or laptop. Dont get too excited though, monitoring through a laptop is frustrating outside in daylight.

The guy above me is right, you'll eventually find that a DSLR view-finder is an absolute necessity and they're very pricey. Lighting is also essential too and so is editing software. You're going to be spending ALOT of money to use your DSLR for video. It isn't budget film-making at all.


Most of the money I've spent has been on lenses. I get myself a new lens each month. I avoid Zacuto products because I've found cheaper (not necessarily better) alternatives that get the job done. I'm not going to pay half a grand for a piece of glorfied plastic just because it has a brand name on it.


Believe it or not, it really is worth it in the end IF you want creative/artistic results. If you dont want creative/artistic results, dont bother with DSLR film-making.

The T2i is also very fiddly next to the 7D but IMO the video quality is identical. I sold my 7D and purchased a T2i instead and used the money left over for more lenses. I dont regret it at all. I wish I'd purchased a T2i FIRST to be honest, it would've saved me more money in the long run.

There's guys out there doing all these nerdy equations and endless comparisons, debating things to death in here "no the 7D is better, no the so and so is better blah blah blah" until they hate each-others guts and become forum-foes for life.

When people are watching things on youtube or vimeo, your footage would've been compressed anyway so it doesn't matter. A regular audience of people doesn't care what lenses you used or how boss your uncompressed footage looks at home, they'll see what they see online and that is that.


It's lame. I just go with what I see on the screen, if it looks good I'm happy. If you think the T2i looks good then it IS good.

I think the GH1 is better for video than any of the Canon DSLR's IMO. So maybe you should consider the GH1? I've seen some incredible footage filmed with the GH1. I just prefer Canon DSLR's, there's something more arty about them I like.
 
You'll get a DSLR view-finder and take it out with you only to realise the idea of assuming a commando sniper position in a field full of wet dirt to get a low angle shot isn't ideal. That's when you realise you need an external monitor, that's how it starts, that's how the addiction begins.

Once the addiction begins it's incurable. Seriously, you wont stop spending. You'll dote on your DSLR like it's a pet or a demanding girlfriend. It'll be one lens after the other, you'll be googling for "bargain DSLR rigs" every day. It doesn't ever stop.

You're going to spoil your DSLR a hell of alot more than you ever did your loved ones.
 
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