Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
i use flash players on my own sites and i don/t even replace the extension. h.264 plays back no problem.
http://www.sabinetwork.com (ignore all the temp text, this site is in early development)
The Unofficial "Suggestions to make DVXuser fests bigger and better" thread.
- Thread starter Ben Sliker
- Start date
http://www.sabinetwork.com (ignore all the temp text, this site is in early development)
Darkline
Veteran
Once again, I don't think that's the issue and I like the "open to all cameras" concept.
I've said it before, if someone makes a compelling movie that grabs me and doesn't let go from start to finish.... I don't care if it was shot on a cell phone.
The ability to tell a good story should be key.
Cheers,
Mike
I agree. Actually I've seen a very good film shot entirely on a cell phone
Most festivals are not format specific now, some films shot on DV have won many awards and not because they were in a different section to the 'proper' movies.
I personally don't think it's fair to separate cameras, not because it benefits the 'big' toys but because it says the DVX films cannot be as good, which I think is the wrong message to give.
I agree that it's an advantage to have a Red because it makes things look good with less work, it is a bit harder on a DVX, but it doesn't stop a DVX from looking very nice or trying for a completely different aesthetic altogether.
A few years ago we won an audience choice award at a festival with a DVX, it was up against a variety of films, other cheap DV cams, but also a few shot on film and one which had over a million dollar budget. If we had only won the 'cheap camera' award, how much satisfaction could we get from that?
alex whitmer
Veteran
Guess I am not seeing how having levels will take away any of the euphoria of being in with some top-notch filmmakers, or the drive to mix it up with them. It's all still there, just added a few stepping stones to smooth out the viewing / commenting / voting phase.
To have an IMDB listing, a fest needs to be vetted. Maybe having to fine-tune the skill enough to really work in the top ranks, and pass to level 3 - or whatever - will count as vetting.
For those of you who want to make this a profession, or get discovered, an IMDB is certainly not required, but I'm guessing it does help. There are a lot of fests out there. I get notices from Without-a-Box almost daily for more and more fest. I'm thinking these fests are the new 'pulp fiction' of yesteryear. Lots of cheap entertainment by anyone with a camera and a thirty-buck entry fee. In the old pulp fiction era, a few masters emerged (Ray Bradbury, Arthur C. Clarke) and went on to have admirable careers.
As mentioned by Jason, there is an effort to get a wider audience base drawn to DVX, which gives it a distinct advantage over so many fests mostly watched by a handful of judges and, if its a fest with some prestige, maybe a few talent scouts and a few Hollywood 'miners' (aka known as thieves).
For the most part we have no idea who is in our audience. There are a lot of members here that never show up on radar. If these fests continue to grow, which there is every indication they will, then there needs to be a way to spread out the viewing. For those of you wanting to be 'discovered', there are not a lot of folks willing to watch 100 films looking for that one pearl. If the top-notch films were narrowed down to say 30, then yeah, there is a good chance they will all be seen by a professional audience that may be searching for a particular look - your films are your resume - and if there is not an organized way to select certain films, it may be more of a deterrent then a help. Any talent scout will tell you going through pages and pages of headshots looking for a certain look is a pain in the ass, and we try and find any shortcut we can. When time allows we will browse.
By skill level I meant having all the Ps and Qs in order, no matter what equipment or crew one has. The final result is what counts – solid story, entertaining, and technically well made – in other words, one demonstrates they have a grasp on what is required to make a film, and that includes management skills. Time management, people management, equipment management.
When all that comes together, a filmmaker advances in their craft, and in the level of recognition from their peers – and an unknown audience.
My proposal to satisfy both a growing number of filmmakers, and a growing audience, is to eventually create three levels of competition. The first is for all first-time entrants, and for those still polishing their skills. Level two is for the top ten or so filmmakers from the first level, and next fest they automatically post films in this level, with a top 3 for prizes, and top 5 or so to advance to level three, where films are vetted and awarded laurel wreaths for expertise in various areas, and – the top three are eligible for IMDB, a public screening (required by IMDB I believe), and from there the filmmaker can improve their craft.
One danger is making the top level, then resting on those laurels, and producing less quality films, but as I mentioned before, no system is human proof.
Anyways, my two Euros worth.
Eventually there needs to be a clear, organized way to enter, view, and grow. Anything that will keep the sense of community alive and thriving, I’m up for. As it is, any one film can have folks from a number of countries and distant locations collaborating on one project – folks who have never met, and likely never will all the best support one could hope for.
aw
To have an IMDB listing, a fest needs to be vetted. Maybe having to fine-tune the skill enough to really work in the top ranks, and pass to level 3 - or whatever - will count as vetting.
For those of you who want to make this a profession, or get discovered, an IMDB is certainly not required, but I'm guessing it does help. There are a lot of fests out there. I get notices from Without-a-Box almost daily for more and more fest. I'm thinking these fests are the new 'pulp fiction' of yesteryear. Lots of cheap entertainment by anyone with a camera and a thirty-buck entry fee. In the old pulp fiction era, a few masters emerged (Ray Bradbury, Arthur C. Clarke) and went on to have admirable careers.
As mentioned by Jason, there is an effort to get a wider audience base drawn to DVX, which gives it a distinct advantage over so many fests mostly watched by a handful of judges and, if its a fest with some prestige, maybe a few talent scouts and a few Hollywood 'miners' (aka known as thieves).
For the most part we have no idea who is in our audience. There are a lot of members here that never show up on radar. If these fests continue to grow, which there is every indication they will, then there needs to be a way to spread out the viewing. For those of you wanting to be 'discovered', there are not a lot of folks willing to watch 100 films looking for that one pearl. If the top-notch films were narrowed down to say 30, then yeah, there is a good chance they will all be seen by a professional audience that may be searching for a particular look - your films are your resume - and if there is not an organized way to select certain films, it may be more of a deterrent then a help. Any talent scout will tell you going through pages and pages of headshots looking for a certain look is a pain in the ass, and we try and find any shortcut we can. When time allows we will browse.
By skill level I meant having all the Ps and Qs in order, no matter what equipment or crew one has. The final result is what counts – solid story, entertaining, and technically well made – in other words, one demonstrates they have a grasp on what is required to make a film, and that includes management skills. Time management, people management, equipment management.
When all that comes together, a filmmaker advances in their craft, and in the level of recognition from their peers – and an unknown audience.
My proposal to satisfy both a growing number of filmmakers, and a growing audience, is to eventually create three levels of competition. The first is for all first-time entrants, and for those still polishing their skills. Level two is for the top ten or so filmmakers from the first level, and next fest they automatically post films in this level, with a top 3 for prizes, and top 5 or so to advance to level three, where films are vetted and awarded laurel wreaths for expertise in various areas, and – the top three are eligible for IMDB, a public screening (required by IMDB I believe), and from there the filmmaker can improve their craft.
One danger is making the top level, then resting on those laurels, and producing less quality films, but as I mentioned before, no system is human proof.
Anyways, my two Euros worth.
Eventually there needs to be a clear, organized way to enter, view, and grow. Anything that will keep the sense of community alive and thriving, I’m up for. As it is, any one film can have folks from a number of countries and distant locations collaborating on one project – folks who have never met, and likely never will all the best support one could hope for.
aw
Last edited:
Ben Sliker
Pain In The Ass 2.0
Alex, I think in theory, your ideas are sound, but logistically, what a pain in the ass. Think of these consequences -
Who makes all of these decisions? The Moderators? The Filmmakers? Who would want to classify themselves as a "lower-tier" filmmaker? It feels like your system is based on someone making a qualitative decision about a piece of work before it's even viewed by the rating public. That being said, if we are trying to draw more people in to watch/comment on these movies and they have a choice between watching 40 "i'm just here for the feedback" and 10-15 really awesome pieces of work, there's no way that any feedback is coming to those 40. I assume it would alienate those films more than help them.
I am a fan of what Jason has said, keep participation at about 70, but increase viewer participation. Anything more complicated than WATCH-RATE-COMMENT I think will drive people away.
As for an IMDB status, that's why I suggest a "Best of" show, now, i don't no what requirements are, but having a film festival screening where you had to place in another festival just to get there has to mean something.
Who makes all of these decisions? The Moderators? The Filmmakers? Who would want to classify themselves as a "lower-tier" filmmaker? It feels like your system is based on someone making a qualitative decision about a piece of work before it's even viewed by the rating public. That being said, if we are trying to draw more people in to watch/comment on these movies and they have a choice between watching 40 "i'm just here for the feedback" and 10-15 really awesome pieces of work, there's no way that any feedback is coming to those 40. I assume it would alienate those films more than help them.
I am a fan of what Jason has said, keep participation at about 70, but increase viewer participation. Anything more complicated than WATCH-RATE-COMMENT I think will drive people away.
As for an IMDB status, that's why I suggest a "Best of" show, now, i don't no what requirements are, but having a film festival screening where you had to place in another festival just to get there has to mean something.
Inexistence
Well-known member
Ben, I'm onboard with all of your suggestions in the 1st post. I like the idea of outside promotion,
but that entails trailers possibly since people like the moving image as a taste of whats to come.
but that entails trailers possibly since people like the moving image as a taste of whats to come.
Rodney V. Smith
DVXFest Promo Guru
what about a trailer of the last fest's films? Something to show what's been done and to promote what's coming.... instead announcing for each film, it's a trailer for the festival itself... that would be kind of cool and could build some kind of excitement...
majikfraug
Well-known member
How about having the poster/synopsis on the download page?
Make it a little bit more like browsing the DVD racks. Maybe give everyone a little practice in the promoting arena and give newcomers more of an "industry-style" chance. I've judged many DVDs by their covers, at least as far as whether I rented them or not. I don't think I've ever searched for a thread on a new movie, read its entire content and then decided if it was worth viewing.
Make it a little bit more like browsing the DVD racks. Maybe give everyone a little practice in the promoting arena and give newcomers more of an "industry-style" chance. I've judged many DVDs by their covers, at least as far as whether I rented them or not. I don't think I've ever searched for a thread on a new movie, read its entire content and then decided if it was worth viewing.
Horncastle
Well-known member
Here's my comments:
1. Outside promotion - seems like a good idea to conjure up more support/viewing for the competition.
2. Trailers - There is the risk that people would put less effort into the films themselves, that the quality of the trailer would influence voting. I think there are enough possibilities for self publicity without them.
3. Annual screening & "Best of Year" - great idea. Good idea also to plan well ahead, both for the participants and for the organizers/sponsorship etc.
4. A long term idea of what DVXuser wants these fests to end up as (i.e. a 2 or 5 year plan) is a good idea. The bigger they get, the more controlled development will help.
5. Some sort of streaming or embedded video is fine but please leave downloading as a possibility for those who want it. I like to be able to switch back and forth, pull up a film just to see one particular thing, show it to others etc. Having them on my hard disk is a great advantage.
6. Dividing the fests by level, in my opinion, would be a pity. One of the great things about these fest is that they are open to allcomers and that there is no entry jury or requirements. Dividing them would open up a can of worms I think. Also, I think that having a two tiered viewing system would discourage many people from watching the films in the lower level. The finalist group is already there as a sort of "member vetted" superior group for those who don't want to wade through the whole lot. Concerning IMDB vetting, that would be for the films shown in the Best of Year annual viewing anyway, so there is no need for further separation.
Whatever you do, handle gently - the fests are developing well
Jason
1. Outside promotion - seems like a good idea to conjure up more support/viewing for the competition.
2. Trailers - There is the risk that people would put less effort into the films themselves, that the quality of the trailer would influence voting. I think there are enough possibilities for self publicity without them.
3. Annual screening & "Best of Year" - great idea. Good idea also to plan well ahead, both for the participants and for the organizers/sponsorship etc.
4. A long term idea of what DVXuser wants these fests to end up as (i.e. a 2 or 5 year plan) is a good idea. The bigger they get, the more controlled development will help.
5. Some sort of streaming or embedded video is fine but please leave downloading as a possibility for those who want it. I like to be able to switch back and forth, pull up a film just to see one particular thing, show it to others etc. Having them on my hard disk is a great advantage.
6. Dividing the fests by level, in my opinion, would be a pity. One of the great things about these fest is that they are open to allcomers and that there is no entry jury or requirements. Dividing them would open up a can of worms I think. Also, I think that having a two tiered viewing system would discourage many people from watching the films in the lower level. The finalist group is already there as a sort of "member vetted" superior group for those who don't want to wade through the whole lot. Concerning IMDB vetting, that would be for the films shown in the Best of Year annual viewing anyway, so there is no need for further separation.
Whatever you do, handle gently - the fests are developing well
Jason
Simon Höfer
Veteran
That's actually how it was before. Until All Hollows Fest. In timefest you could look it up with a direct link. have a look:
http://www.dvxfest.com/timefest/direct_dl.php?id=1000128
Horncastle
Well-known member
Very good idea!! Maybe part of the first prize could be to have to make the next one
majikfraug
Well-known member
Yeah, but I think I'd rather have like a thumbnail poster next to the link. Like they have on Netflix. I think it would help if your title isn't ultra impressive, or is in the latter part of the alphabet
Michael Anthony Horrigan
More Cowbell Pictures
Vimeo can be set to allow you to download the original file if one little box is checked off by the person uploading. So this wouldn't be an issue. :thumbup:
Mike
Mattykins
Cute Member
I think this would be a shame really. Unless by outside promotion - we are talking about sections on personal websites. I am worried it would become a whore fest if we opened it up totally online.
I can see why we don't have them. Considering most people are furiously editing the night before the upload as is.
I would skip the best of the year screening. The screening for the fest itself would be nice. Last time I think it got littered with a lot of films that were old (but good). It just made the screening longer than I think it should have been. (this is from watching online)
What is wrong with the fest we have here? I think what we have is lovely. I wouldn't want the DVXuser fest to become an online sundance.
I agree, but streaming them would be nice too. Since I would be more inclined to open a random one and watch it though. Maybe more would actually view and vote is we could stream?
I really don't think we need IMDB status. If you want the status - go submit to other awards shows. I mean, all of the entries aren't amazing. In fact - some can be painful to watch. Since the DVXuser fest is more of an educational fest, I think we should keep it that way. For awards you can submit the product to other fests.
As for tiers. I think that would be really sad. If it was based on cameras, then I think that would equally suck. I was here when you needed a DVX to enter. I missed out because I couldn't afford a DVX. Now I am thinking of bringing an F35 out to my next show. So again would I not be able to compete? Content before camera, as I think is said almost every other day here on the forum.
Horncastle
Well-known member
Mattykins - I actually agree with much of what you say. My comments were in response to what others were suggesting. In particular:
The fest we have here is great. The long term plan could be just to keep it that way.
Agreed - my comment about IMDB status was in response to those who wanted tiers with that status for the top tier. IMDB status requires theatre projection as far as I am aware in any case. If someone wants it for an annual showing fine, but I don't really care one way or the other.
Jason
The fest we have here is great. The long term plan could be just to keep it that way.
Agreed - my comment about IMDB status was in response to those who wanted tiers with that status for the top tier. IMDB status requires theatre projection as far as I am aware in any case. If someone wants it for an annual showing fine, but I don't really care one way or the other.
My point exactly.
Jason
Horncastle
Well-known member
No problem Matt
Jason
Jason
alex whitmer
Veteran
Levels appears to be soundly beaten.
a
a
Rodney V. Smith
DVXFest Promo Guru
with a big stick
John LaBonney
Well-known member
What Mattykins said.
majikfraug
Well-known member
How about a Top Ten (consistantly) instead of 8, 7,6 or whatever? I understand the reasoning for the way it is now, but I think having 10 at the top would be cool to shoot for. It probably wouldn't effect the Top 3 at all, from what I understand of the averages, right?
But it would be GREAT exposure for some of the good ones that otherwise might not get as much exposure. It's kind of like having levels, but not really. And I think having 10 six minute films would be a cool way to spend an hour.
Could even throw together a trailer as an "outside advertisement" for the finalists. Eh?
But it would be GREAT exposure for some of the good ones that otherwise might not get as much exposure. It's kind of like having levels, but not really. And I think having 10 six minute films would be a cool way to spend an hour.
Could even throw together a trailer as an "outside advertisement" for the finalists. Eh?