C200: The new Canon C200 with 4K
- Thread starter Michael Thames
- Start date
Looking at the manual that avian linked to, I doubt that the camera blacks out the video output when recording in RAW. I read the video output sections and the external recorder sections and nowhere in the notes does it say that video output is disabled. They also have a section for "shooting in 4k" and the ACES workflow seems to depend on you live-grading on set.
I have not used the 80D or 1DX II, but the touch screen seemed awesome to me. I want it pretty bad after using it. The only thing I didn't like was that you have to program a physical button on the camera to put the focus setting into tracking mode before you select a subject to actively focus/track. So every time you want to track something and keep it in focus, you have to press two actions to get it to work, first the button and then the object on the screen that you want to track. It really would have been much better had they created it so that once you enter focus tracking mode, you just touch a subject on the screen and it tracks that subject until you touch another subject on the screen. The extra step with the button is annoying. But the focus tracking works remarkably well. They were using a 16-35 MK III which was truly incredible when paired with the focus tracker. The other camera had the CNE 18-80 which was also great. I used the C200 to track the model they had on stage. I then moved the camera behind a tripod, blocking the shot of the model. Once I emerged, the focus tracker immediately picked the model's face back up. It was impressive. I wish I had brought my old 24mm 1.4 MK I lens to see how much of a difference an older lens makes. The reps mentioned how older lenses really won't work as well but they didn't go into specifics about why or what particular lenses fall into the "older" category (though they did say the 50mm 1.2L will definitely be slow). If anyone has a 1DX II, I imagine that'd be an easy thing to figure out.
The one on the tripod was shooting Rawlight at least when I was fooling around with it
haha good one :laugh:
It's a shame the mp4 isn't a proper proxy workflow. Seems like the reps get around it by calling it "sub-recording". On the mkii it's literally called proxy recording, but it doesn't really work as it names the files differently (adds '_proxy' to the filename) and it also doesn't record slow motion clips as proxies... they're entirely absent from the SD card.
I did a job shooting 4k with some slomo 2k clips and had to do a rough cut on a laptop in a hotel. The proxies worked well, but I was missing the slomo clips. Why should I need to explain to a client why some clips have proxies and others don't? Is it that hard for them to fully implement a feature so that it just works across the board?
I did a job shooting 4k with some slomo 2k clips and had to do a rough cut on a laptop in a hotel. The proxies worked well, but I was missing the slomo clips. Why should I need to explain to a client why some clips have proxies and others don't? Is it that hard for them to fully implement a feature so that it just works across the board?
cpreston
Veteran
I took a look at the camera today. The rep said that output on the HDMI and SDI is not disabled during RAW recording, but that it is 1080p for both. Also, all of the 4K output and SD recording is 4:2:0.
The touch screen is very responsive, much better than my XC-15. The touchscreen monitor is also very light when the mount is removed, but the mount and monitor on the C200 is about as heavy as the C300 II monitor and XLR input.
The touch screen is very responsive, much better than my XC-15. The touchscreen monitor is also very light when the mount is removed, but the mount and monitor on the C200 is about as heavy as the C300 II monitor and XLR input.
I was in attendance at the Canon Learning Center in Burbank when they demoed the C200 last night. The presenter was adamant about letting us know that the HDMI port, when recording Cinema Raw Light, only outputs 2K through the HDMI port. So the HDMI port remains active while recording RAW, but only outputs 2k.
4K raw = HDMI only HD*, SDI is HD* or 2K, all is YCbCr 4:2:2, 10 bit.
(*2048×1080 signals will have black bands added above and below).
Proxy on SD is 2K.
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/cinema-eos/eos-c200
(*2048×1080 signals will have black bands added above and below).
Proxy on SD is 2K.
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/cinema-eos/eos-c200
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Tim Nitsch
Well-known member
You would have to take my word for it, but I can tell you that didn't happen.
And honestly, what editor in their right mind would actually do that, especially for broadcast?
cpreston
Veteran
You are the first person to say that. How do you know?
Run&Gun
Veteran
Well... I've been asked to "dumb" my VariCams down before so that the difference with lesser cameras wasn't as bad(network/broadcast). My reply is always, NO.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Whenever my clients ask me to do something I tell them "NO" too. Then I slap them around to show them who's really boss.
Jaime Valles
Veteran
WHEW! That's a relief. Thanks for clarifying that the C200 can show an image on an external display via HDMI or SDI (even if it is only in 1080). I'm now back to being interested in this camera again.
See, that's what I mean. The 1DX II has the amazing DPAF tracking autofocus, and all I have to do to change what object to track is touch the object on the screen once. Dead simple. Why did they add the extra step on the C200 in order to change the tracking object?!
Run&Gun
Veteran
No is the short answer for brevity's sake here on an internet forum chiming in on comments about matching/"dumbing" down cameras to match. Of course the long(er) answer that I gave to the person asking(NOT the client, btw, but another contractor) was that it was not as simple as adjusting the color, contrast and saturation on a TV set or the "handycams" also being used on the shoot. I told him the VariCam has a complex paint menu that you don't just jump in and start screwing around with in the field 30 minutes before you go to air. He understood, he was the EIC on the truck, but he had to ask since mis-matching cameras can reflect poorly on him. Of course, if the client really cared THAT much, they would have had tried to have all matching cameras and not just one real broadcast/professional camera and the rest fixed lens, small chip, prosumer cameras.
indiawilds
Veteran
Frankly speaking I feel these kind of smart answers is very important and life saver. It is more important than any technique or any camera spec discussion. Can someone start a separate thread to compile all such gems?
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/.../cameras/cinema-eos/eos-c200?WT.mc_id=C126149
here look for "Wide Range of Connectivity Options" and there is info - Output Signal Configurations (During Shooting)
Recording signal configuration - RAW
Output signal configuration .... SDI output and HDMI maximum resolution (you can limit a HDMI out to HD at menu, so two resolutions are available).
- 4K raw = HDMI only HD* 1920x1080, SDI is HD* or 2K, all is YCbCr 4:2:2, 10 bit.
(*2048×1080 signals will have black bands added above and below).
Proxy is 2K at SD card 4:2:0 8bit (look for part about Internal 4K RAW Rcording...)
I was shooting with C200 for four days, also with internal UHD recording together with HD HDMI recorder (raw without rekorder). But it was not a final firmware.
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Much hysteria on here before we've even got the camera lol. I dont think the new codec coming next year will be merely a wrapper as that makes no sense for them to do that - there might be a slight improvement coming in 8 bit, probably with the introduction of a new c400?. And I would be very surprised if you cant monitor externally while recording RAW.
For me what makes this camera weird, and it is finally sinking into my thick skull, is that raw will probably be next to impossible to edit if what puredrifting says is true. But more broadly, as a cameraman, the opportunities that raw gives me will never be fully utilised - as I am sure that a professional colourist would make superior images with an 8 bit codec to that of my own graded raw footage. For example, the winner of the Golden Lion in 2012 at the Venice Film Festival was shot on a pair of 5d Mark II and the footage looks fantastic. So why do I need raw?
Well, if I am doing high end commercial work then it would make sense, but even then there are cameras out there more suited to that type of work so I wouldnt be getting this camera for that reason.
Not only that, but the images out of the c200 are much in the same vein as the other C line cameras; that is, a bit sterile.
So, if the EVA1 has anything close to an image as the Varicam LT, even with its limited codecs, which for my purposes 10 bit is more than enough, then, at a cheaper price, that is the camera that makes more sense for most people I would think - unless you are heavily reliant on DPAF.
For me what makes this camera weird, and it is finally sinking into my thick skull, is that raw will probably be next to impossible to edit if what puredrifting says is true. But more broadly, as a cameraman, the opportunities that raw gives me will never be fully utilised - as I am sure that a professional colourist would make superior images with an 8 bit codec to that of my own graded raw footage. For example, the winner of the Golden Lion in 2012 at the Venice Film Festival was shot on a pair of 5d Mark II and the footage looks fantastic. So why do I need raw?
Well, if I am doing high end commercial work then it would make sense, but even then there are cameras out there more suited to that type of work so I wouldnt be getting this camera for that reason.
Not only that, but the images out of the c200 are much in the same vein as the other C line cameras; that is, a bit sterile.
So, if the EVA1 has anything close to an image as the Varicam LT, even with its limited codecs, which for my purposes 10 bit is more than enough, then, at a cheaper price, that is the camera that makes more sense for most people I would think - unless you are heavily reliant on DPAF.