C200: The new Canon C200 with 4K

coutard said:
if it were to be the same form factor as C100s, why not call it C100 MK III ?
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Because they may - and should - want to sell these models simultaneously.

Next comes marketing/corporate synergy stuff. Do they lower C100 MKII to ~ $2,500-$3000 while sticking C200 at $6,000-$7,000? Do they lower C300 MKII to $10,000? Do they come out with C300 MKIII or C300MKII SLT? Do they offer C100 MKII and/or C300 MKII in a package with a bunch of lenses and/or accessories to not completely blow up those sales while there's plenty of inventory to clear?

To give some credit to the executives, most of the time they have Plan A, B and C worked out way before the slip hits the hay.
 
Oh man, this is making me nostalgic for my old Betacam, then DSR-500, then the Varicam. Things were so much simpler in those days, you pulled off the bandaid and screamed at the initial cost, but then you just made money with them, for years and years. I hate the two year product cycle. When you think about it, many of us are buying cameras that cost as much as an economy car, it's ridiculous, but then again, we used to buy cameras that cost what a small condo used to cost in California or a house in a sane priced state. At least we don't have to buy tape by the case and or pallet anymore ;-)
 
puredrifting said:
Oh man, this is making me nostalgic for my old Betacam, then DSR-500, then the Varicam. Things were so much simpler in those days, you pulled off the bandaid and screamed at the initial cost, but then you just made money with them, for years and years. I hate the two year product cycle. When you think about it, many of us are buying cameras that cost as much as an economy car, it's ridiculous, but then again, we used to buy cameras that cost what a small condo used to cost in California or a house in a sane priced state. At least we don't have to buy tape by the case and or pallet anymore ;-)
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A buddy in ATL hit me up the last day that Showcase was open and asked if I wanted/needed any tape for my VariCam. They were trying to sell them for $1/each. I said I wouldn't buy them for .10/each. I still have boxes of them in my office(along with BetacamSP and HDCAM). Think back 10 years ago how much we were paying for 30 min DVCProHD tapes. At least $20-$30/each, if not more in the earlier days.

He said what wasn't bought was just gonna be tossed in the trash.
 
Mitch Gross said:
I'm right-handed but my right eye isn't very good vision, so I'm default left eye dominant. No way for me to switch that one, and I have the sore neck to prove it. But the left eye extension for my old Aaton was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
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Anyone else shoot with both eyes open? ( while one eye is in the loupe )

It is useful for being aware of your surroundings. Helps you avoid getting creamed while shooting football from the sidelines. Also handy for when you are shooting while walking up or down a flight of stairs.

I don't do it all the time. Only periodically. It's weird at first but after a while your brain learns to see both views. When first trying it you have to sort of "look" not at what either eye is seeing but instead at a mental midpoint where you aren't clearly seeing what either eye sees. And then the brain diverges in each direction, coming into "seeing" what both eyes are taking in and seeing both clearly. It is hard to explain.

This gun instructor is an advocate of the technique for shooting firearms-

 
puredrifting said:
If you could look at my fully rigged out C100/300 right now, from the bottom of the handgrip that is on the Wooden Camera grip relocator at the end of a Tilta 6" Arri rosette arm to the top of the camera where I have an AT-875r shotgun, the overall height is absolutely ridiculous, it's almost 2'!! Who wants to carry around a two foot tall camera rig? It works but it is a kludge to shoot effective handheld footage with C100/300/300MKII without a Zacuto Recoil type rig. And the Zacuto Recoil Rig is great but it still is a Franken Rig. I have to unthread the Arri Rosette on the Tilta Arm just to put my rig down on a flat surface. Shooting handheld in front of your body is cool for b-roll, I have done it but you really cannot shoot interviews handheld without looking up someone's nose unless the cam is on your shoulder and the C100/300/300MKII don't do that unless you add a baseplate, grip relocator, arm, cables, eyepiece like a Zacuto EVF Pro/Graticle. You also lose points of contact handheld and cannot shoot steadily very long, you get shaky whereas I can shoot with my C100/300 Franken Rig all day and my interviews look like a barely moving tripod. Shoulder mounted shooting is essential to documentary and event coverage and the EOS Cinema cameras, with the exception of the C700, are a hot mess for doing so. I have about $3k worth of add ons to make my C100/300 usable for shoulder mounted shooting in a professional setting. Whereas an intelligently designed pro camera like an F55, Varicam LT or Amira, comes out of the box ready to do that because it is a box with a viewfinder. Canon needs to get a clue and drop the current form factor and follow in the C700's footsteps.

Sure for tripod, crane, gimbal and slider, who cares? But many of us make our bread and butter with handheld, shoulder mount shooting. Canon's not the only guilty party, REDs suck for this too, they have terrible ergos and must be kludged together for handheld. Like it or not, the broadcast 2/3" imager handheld camera form factor is superior for all handheld shooting so all we are doing is trying to turn our weirdly shaped and balanced tools back into a Betacam, it would be so much better if Canon understood this.
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It's discontinued now, but the Rhino Rig has been an amazing solution for my C300 Mark II shoulder mounted needs. The setup I use looks like this but without the cage:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1164224-REG/rhino_sku0074_rhino_rig.html

The beauty of this thing is that it lets you use the camera's excellent built in EVF. Your first thought may be that it would be poorly balanced but the innovative shoulder grip does a good job at stabilizing, and can also be fitted with a counter balance or additional accessories to distribute weight. In the end, using this rig feels super natural, comfortable, balanced, and responsive. Then I can just pop it off and use it in all the great situations you mentioned (tripod, crane, gimbal, slider).

Obviously not that useful for you to know because you already sprung for the Recoil Rig AND this is discontinued, but just putting this out there for anyone who wants to try to pick one up off eBay or something.
 
dcloud said:
My guess is its a c300 mk ii lite. Uhd 4k 30p 420 8bit, 422 10bit fhd.
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If its 420 8 bit, I won't buy it, I'll hold out for the C300MKII. The C200 will be priced slightly higher than the Sony FS7, after all, the C300 MKII was $16,000 when first released within a year or so dropped down to $12,000. The C200 with also drop in price within a year of its release thus bringing down the price of the C300mkII to $10,000. This isn't a good year to buy a new camera.

I don't want 4K the only reason would be to future proof, or more importantly to punch in, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to record in 4K for an hour just to punch in a few times. Was taking a serious look at the C300MKI because it is 422 10 bit, for $5000 oe $3000 for a used one. Then you have the prestige of saying I have a C300.
 
puredrifting said:
I hate the two year product cycle...
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In fairness (and probability), this cycle may end with models at 4K, 60-96p and 13-14 stops. While the subsequent models will exceed it on specs, that level should be good enough for everything but the top tier professional use (i.e., big budget TV and features). And, even there, a 4K/13-14 stops would have sufficed, had the production not been able to afford the latest and the greatest.

As bandied about in the "depressed" thread, the new tech isn't likely to be in cameras - aside Lytra, perhaps - but in robotic arms, high end computer VFX, rotoscoping, etc.
 
Michael Thames said:
If its 420 8 bit, I won't buy it, I'll hold out for the C300MKII. The C200 will be priced slightly higher than the Sony FS7, after all, the C300 MKII was $16,000 when first released within a year or so dropped down to $12,000. The C200 with also drop in price within a year of its release thus bringing down the price of the C300mkII to $10,000. This isn't a good year to buy a new camera.

I don't want 4K the only reason would be to future proof, or more importantly to punch in, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to record in 4K for an hour just to punch in a few times. Was taking a serious look at the C300MKI because it is 422 10 bit, for $5000 oe $3000 for a used one. Then you have the prestige of saying I have a C300.
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Is the C300 MK I 10bit for external recorders? I am pretty sure it is 8bit internal.
 
JPNola said:
Anyone else shoot with both eyes open? ( while one eye is in the loupe )

It is useful for being aware of your surroundings. Helps you avoid getting creamed while shooting football from the sidelines. Also handy for when you are shooting while walking up or down a flight of stairs.

I don't do it all the time. Only periodically. It's weird at first but after a while your brain learns to see both views. When first trying it you have to sort of "look" not at what either eye is seeing but instead at a mental midpoint where you aren't clearly seeing what either eye sees. And then the brain diverges in each direction, coming into "seeing" what both eyes are taking in and seeing both clearly. It is hard to explain.

This gun instructor is an advocate of the technique for shooting firearms-

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Yep. Started out doing it in sports. When you get good at it, you really don't even need to acquire/"see" the ball in the VF to have it tight in the frame.
 
Run&Gun said:
Yep. Started out doing it in sports. When you get good at it, you really don't even need to acquire/"see" the ball in the VF to have it tight in the frame.
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I think this is how I shot AK-47 in my youth. I needed glasses even then but it took me a while to go to a doctor for a prescription. The results weren't very good, even at 50 meters.
 
dcloud said:
My guess is its a c300 mk ii lite. Uhd 4k 30p 420 8bit, 422 10bit fhd.
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"420" = 4:2:0 color space

"FHD" = full HD or 1080 ( as opposed to 720 HD )


I had to do some googling to find out what was meant by the shorthand.

"BFD" is something entirely different. :grin:
 
The camera doesn't output 10-bit, so it can't take advantage of external recording. (At least for that purpose.)
 
I quickly scanned through it, but it seems like he did some thorough testing. I won't question his validity because we truly never know what's going on with the engineering and only believe what the manufacturers tell us, but on paper, it's an 8-bit camera according to Canon.
 
The 10-bit container with much lower compression than the internal codec is probably what accounts for that difference. The camera definitely doesn't output 10-bit.
 
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