The 24 Diary

Your Plan pt 4 : Random Concepts

Wow! I’m really happy with all of the positive feedback this thread has created. I’ve been busy for a while, but it seems if I leave this thread alone long enough someone comes back and asks to keep it going. I guess I should thank all of you for encouraging me to finish. It definitely gets difficult at times and with some of the drama that goes on in other threads, sometimes it makes me rethink. LOL Anyway back to basics.

OK, so it’s been almost two years and I personally don’t have 3 movies. Well I sort of have 2. If you’ve kept up with this thread and the “VOICES” (Coming Correct) thread then you know we kinda shot two movies in one. I personally recognized that it’s difficult for me not to want to do my best each time. I’m starting to wish I could change the title to the Five Year Diary from the 24 (months) Diary. Five years is much more doable. My current average time per movie is more like 18 months than 8. Every time I get into post production, I always spend extra time to get everything right – which I’m not ashamed of what so ever. At the indie level, you can’t have big movie mistakes. You have to be better than average.

About two weeks ago through a long complicated episode of random goodness – I’ve decided to pick up the baton again. Coming Correct is coming to a close. The movie is 98% Edited, 90% Color Corrected, 60% Audio Mixed/Cleaned. I plan on skipping next week and just working on it for about 3 weeks straight and finally finish it up and have a premiere in Atlanta in late August. Next week I’ll be working on a new screenplay based off of a concept that we came up with two weeks ago. Basically a romantic off-the-wall type comedy. I plan on meeting with investors this week and hopefully securing some cash. (YAY!)

If you need to, you can go back and familiarize yourself with Chapter 2 pt 3 . At this point in the game that’s where I am. The upgrading of Voices to Coming Correct, plus my first movie that was distributed has pushed me beyond the first 2 movies of the 24 Diary. So now it’s time to go after some heavy hitters. My plan as outlined in Chapter 2 pt 3 is exactly the same. It’s important that no matter what your plan is, that you see it through to the end. Remember allow no one to distract you from your goals, not wife, girlfriend, mother, father, brother, sister, best friend, etc. Many think they are helping you, but you must thank them for their concern, but press forward. I think it’s the hardest for wives/husbands because their financial future is wrapped up into you. But you have to assure them that everything will be okay, while being smart about your decisions.

Pardon me while I go back briefly to the business side for a quick note. I’ve a Hollywood theory which is based on is the differences between both sides of the “movie business” model. The movie side per se, is filled primarily with artists and the business side is primarily filled with, what else, business people. Many times these sides don’t get along. The artists seem to feel like this idea/concept/masterpiece needs ABC, while the business side thinks the work needs XYZ in order to sell. I encourage you to think more about XYZ instead of ABC. But if nothing else model your thoughts to stay in the center around LMNOP (LOL). I won’t go too much further into it than that, just remember those that are into XYZ: Steven Spielberg, Robert Rodriguez, George Lucas. All these guys come up with ideas, produce those ideas, budget for the big and small of those ideas, and rarely have a failure.

Back to the point; the plan in movie 3 is simple. Get as much money as the movie can easily make back + some kind of profit. You need at least 2 to 3 supporting cast members with a credible name. The name will change depending on your genre and what your ultimate goals are. Personally my goals are to become the next Steven Spielberg. I set my goals high. I’m looking for television actors, or an actor who has been in many notable roles in feature films who doesn’t have their own “film yet”, or maybe someone who hasn’t worked in a while. If you stay with the niche markets (Lesbian/Gay, African-American, Latino, Christian) you also have access to more people who may not be working, but who these genres recognize as major actors. I’ve been surprised at who I’ve seen show up in movies that cost around $500K or under. (Opinion: I guess fundamentally we all want to work.) – Also note this is some of the same advice that Justin gave for ALPFD; both ALPFD and Corrado had offers being PM’d to them once the movies were in post-production.
 
Congrats on finishing up post. If I can't make it to ATL in August, will you send me a screener? :)

I'm actually debating on what to do with the screeners. I'll have to talk it over with some folks, but I may be able to send a few out. - Thanks for being willing to watch.

So you guys got anything new on the table. It's about time to put that feature hat on! LOL
 
You're right. Hopefully the first feature can happen within a year. I just want to get all the shorts out of my system and make sure I've mastered everything necessary on the technical side. I'm finishing post on a short we just did for the 48 Hr Film Project. I'll link you once it's online.

Take care.
 
You're right. Hopefully the first feature can happen within a year. I just want to get all the shorts out of my system and make sure I've mastered everything necessary on the technical side. I'm finishing post on a short we just did for the 48 Hr Film Project. I'll link you once it's online.

Take care.

Cool - I'll look forward to it.
 
Wow, this was a great post. I just spent the last three days reading it.

If its ok, I'd like to add a little. Excuse my randomnous, I'm writing this on the fly.

I loved your concept of the 24 month plan. It's very much like the book From Reel to Deal. Written by the guy that does the Two day film School. In it he creates 35 steps. The book and plan are mainly for a Low (250k) budget. I recommend reading his book in a addition to the 24 month plan. They have a alot in common, but come from slightly different places. He really takes on the Guerrilla film makers point of view of do what what can to make your film. Beg, borrow and steal.

I Just finished my first feature, A documentary about underground art. This was easier for me to create stretched out over 5 years. I couldn't afford to hire any actors or crew, but could afford plane tickets once a month. I didn't know anything about film making. I knew some stuff, but not enough to make a story based film. I found this process of shooting once a month worked well for me. Granted it took for ever, but it was like film school. I did get help with filming. I only knew one person with a camera. He was a schooled doc filmmaker with a little experience. I only had to pick him up or pay for his plane ticket (when he moved) and make sure he had somewhere to sleep when we were on locations.

Since starting that project I began to read everything I could about film making. My Doc has been touring the festival circuit, Ironically more so over seas than in the states. I learned alot from just doing it, combined with a ton of reading. The reading gave me a lot of good knowledge, but not as much as actually making something.
I know I still have more to learn, which is what I loved about this post.
I think I'm in the 1st part of your plan. I'm going through the process of the distribution right now. Hopefully all the papers will be signed soon and I'll have a distributed movie, albeit a documentary. I think the biggest part that I learned in was the non creative side of filmmaking. The sound editing, the music supervision etc. Not to say that those don't their creative elements. I just come from the art dept, pre-production side of things. It's easier to plan something on paper, than it is to pull of the nuts and bolts end.

I'm also panning my next film, a Zombie movie.

It's inspiring to read about other filmmakers who are that next step ahead of me.
In the RR book he writes about using what you have. (Side note, Im a visual effects guy. I follow the Stu Maschwitz way of filmmaking, the creator of Magic bullet. I recommend his book as well, The DV Rebels guide to filmmaking.) In Stu's book he talks about working with Robert Rodriguez. He made something called the Rodriguez list. A list of everything you have available to you. Your samurai swords, your friends BMW, that old bb gun from the 80's (before they invented the orange tip) and your fathers old suit. Bang, you've got the prime props for an assassination attempt on business man who knows to much- plot.
Obviously you would need more, but I think you get the point. Find out what you've got to work with, then work your story around that. Similar to your working the movie from the inside out.

I really liked your break down of the elements, Camera, light and sound. The mast basic of filmmaking. Ideally you can get some one to take of those elements. It's good to know they are getting it right though.

In the Reel to Deal book, he says that every beginning filmmaker (especially directors) should be a producer first. Based on the fact that no one is going to take a chance on you until you have proved your self with a succesful film that makes money. You will have to do it your self at first. Better to learn that coming out of the gate.

I look forward to seeing you film someday. Any plans for festivals or screening out in California?

BTW- My film is playing in the Hot Springs film festival in Arkinsas if any one is out that way.
-T
 
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Wow, this was a great post. I just spent the last three days reading it.

If its ok, I'd like to add a little. Excuse my randomnous, I'm writing this on the fly.

I loved your concept of the 24 month plan. It's very much like the book From Reel to Deal. Written by the guy that does the Two day film School. In it he creates 35 steps. The book and plan are mainly for a Low (250k) budget. I recommend reading his book in a addition to the 24 month plan. They have a alot in common, but come from slightly different places. He really takes on the Guerrilla film makers point of view of do what what can to make your film. Beg, borrow and steal.

I Just finished my first feature, A documentary about underground art. This was easier for me to create stretched out over 5 years.

...

I look forward to seeing you film someday. Any plans for festivals or screening out in California?

BTW- My film is playing in the Hot Springs film festival in Arkinsas if any one is out that way.
-T

Thanks a bunch for reading. I agree with your post wholeheartedly and I know I need to get back to doing some reading as well. I have looked through a few video tutorials and movie making videos, so I have done some recent study. But I definately need to get out and check those books out.

As for California, I may get out there. I'm sending my movie off to try to get it into some fests in about 5 days, so hopefully by early next year I can start getting into some fests. Let's hope for the best. :grin: Arkansas is still far, but if you get to Georgia let me know.

What camera did you use on your documentary? How long is it?
 
Wasn't there a PDF posted of your "24 Diary" plan somewhere...if so can you post a link to it. Thanks

I've been lazy, I'll get this PDF'd soon - hopefully before Christmas and maybe with a few new psosts. Right now I'm debating making a video series out of it, so I can "show" more of what I'm talking about. Unfortunately that slows me down a bit, but if it can help a few people, then I'm all for it. I'm talking with a guy in Atlanta now who said he might be interested in filming it, I just have to get back with him.
 
My Doc is 87 minutes. I interviewed a lot people. There's a lot of info in it. Almost too much.

Most of it was shot on MiniDV. A Canon, I forget which, the mid grade one that was popular about 5 years ago. He later upgraded to a Canon HDV. Me editor was also kind of a second camera when my first wasn't available. He started with an old pro DVcam and then later upgraded to the same HDV. I have an hvx200, but only one interview was shot with that. A lot of different grades of quality were used. You can tell in the film, some it looks bad, some of it looks ok, some of it looks really really good. The Dvcam actually produced some nice quality stuff, I was surprised. If you want to check out the trailer, http://newbrowfilm.com/trailer.htm

Ive been reading like a madman, digital filmmaking, screenwriting, post production, Producing, etc.. If you need any recommendations let me know. Of all the books I read, Reel to Deal really hit it on the head for me.

I'm going to start running some test footage for my next project, spurred by your lighting posts.

Definitely post it if you get your film out here.
-T
 
My Doc is 87 minutes. I interviewed a lot people. There's a lot of info in it. Almost too much.

Most of it was shot on MiniDV. A Canon, I forget which, the mid grade one that was popular about 5 years ago. He later upgraded to a Canon HDV. Me editor was also kind of a second camera when my first wasn't available. He started with an old pro DVcam and then later upgraded to the same HDV. I have an hvx200, but only one interview was shot with that. A lot of different grades of quality were used. You can tell in the film, some it looks bad, some of it looks ok, some of it looks really really good. The Dvcam actually produced some nice quality stuff, I was surprised. If you want to check out the trailer, http://newbrowfilm.com/trailer.htm

Ive been reading like a madman, digital filmmaking, screenwriting, post production, Producing, etc.. If you need any recommendations let me know. Of all the books I read, Reel to Deal really hit it on the head for me.

I'm going to start running some test footage for my next project, spurred by your lighting posts.

Definitely post it if you get your film out here.
-T

Sounds like you had a Canon XL1 then upgraded to maybe a Canon A1? But that's cool. It's good to learn. That's how I see it for the most part. The learning aspect. I think the difference between pros and amatures is that the pros constantly study, test and try new things to perfect what they are doing, while the non-pros just figure "I'll show up." It's kinda like being in school - you have to do your homework. But if you love it, it's not really work.

Feel free to list all books and any other articles or items you find that can help other people. That's why I started this thread, to simply help people and to get away from

#1. The constant hiding of information and keeping things away from indies
#2. To provide a basic overview of what I "think" most people starting out will go through
#3. To show people they can make it, even if they don't have the midsized indie budgets (i.e. $100K to $500K)

Just checked out your trailer - it looks good. I can see some of the problems you had, but heck you made a movie and got it into 5 fests! That's great - amazing - astounding - awesome! Any buyers yet?
 
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Feel free to list all books and any other articles or items you find that can help other people. That's why I started this thread, to simply help people and to get away from

#1. The constant hiding of information and keeping things away from indies
#2. To provide a basic overview of what I "think" most people starting out will go through
#3. To show people they can make it, even if they don't have the midsized indie budgets (i.e. $100K to $500K)



I am in total agreement with you about hiding info. The film industry definitely does that. I did storyboards for a feature in 2002 (released by fineline). It was the directors 2nd film directing, 3rd time writing. He made the film, hard cost, for 50k. Most people including myself worked for free on it. They had a deal with the distributors, If they could make a 100k film they would give him a multi picture deal. But he had to raise the money himself. He could only get 50k. But told the distributors that it was a 100k film because there's this thing in Hollywood that says you can only make a good picture for 1 million. But the actual hard cost is really 250-500k, the rest is promotion and mark up.
He was able to get an 80k camera package rental for free, most of the crew was free, well known actors free(small parts). I don't know how he did it, other than his first movie was really good, and people were investing in him making it not the movie per say. He was really nice and made sure every one was appreciated on set.

I wanted to comment on your posts from the first page of this 24 diary, where you basically said don't try and make the best movie ever made, cause the first one is gonna suck. Sam Raimi comes to mind. His first two movie were so bad, you can't even rent them they were that bad. Peter Jackson's first movies were pretty bad, although pretty fun.
Most directors you look up will have a couple really awful movies. The point is not that they're bad, but that they are distributed. Remember Traumaville movies?! Look up The Asylum, I have a friend that has written a couple movies for them. They do the really bad scifi channel movies. I've tried to watch some of these, and I can't get through them. My point is not to make these bad movies, but that bad movies get distributed. If you have a good product, people will want it. I think the key for a bad movie is concept vs cheesyness. You can make a bad/fun movie and people will like it. You can't make a bad/cheesy movie. Of course try to make the best movie you can make is most important.

Just checked out your trailer - it looks good. I can see some of the problems you had, but heck you made a movie and got it into 5 fests! That's great - amazing - astounding - awesome! Any buyers yet?

I'm working with an Australian distributor now for foreign distribution. Still working on North American distribution. Yeah, there was a lot of problems with sound (Sound is sooooo important, cant stress that enough!) and video compression (rendering and re-rendering, kinda f'ed it up). Had I the money to do it all over it would look much better. But now I can take all that knowledge and put it into the next film.

I'll get a list of books together in another post.
-T
 
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I am in total agreement with you about hiding info. The film industry definitely does that. ... I don't know how he did it, other than his first movie was really good, and people were investing in him making it not the movie per say. He was really nice and made sure every one was appreciated on set.

I think the key to being able to charge more (crew, etc) is this concept that you know something that somebody else does not. It gives you the ability to make money - which is true. But I think it still takes years or at least months worth of practical experience to understand the concept fully and most people that "try" to do this will drop out because it's "work" and not this "easy street" that they think it is.

I wanted to comment on your posts from the first page of this 24 diary, where you basically said don't try and make the best movie ever made, cause the first one is gonna suck. Sam Raimi comes to mind. His first two movie were so bad, you can't even rent them they were that bad. Peter Jackson's first movies were pretty bad, although pretty fun.
Most directors you look up will have a couple really awful movies. The point is not that they're bad, but that they are distributed. Remember Traumaville movies?! Look up The Asylum, I have a friend that has written a couple movies for them. They do the really bad scifi channel movies. I've tried to watch some of these, and I can't get through them. My point is not to make these bad movies, but that bad movies get distributed. If you have a good product, people will want it. I think the key for a bad movie is concept vs cheesyness. You can make a bad/fun movie and people will like it. You can't make a bad/cheesy movie. Of course try to make the best movie you can make is most important.

I'm glad you got that. I agree with you on that note. I hear/read so many people saying "You have to have the best this or best that" but in truth you have to weigh a movie on it's own personal pros and cons whether that is the budget, known actors, great idea, well executed production, or just someone knowing people in the industry. Trust that Steven Speilburg's Son/Daughter will never go through what the average indie goes through. LOL


I'm working with an Australian distributor now for foreign distribution. Still working on North American distribution. Yeah, there was a lot of problems with sound (Sound is sooooo important, cant stress that enough!) and video compression (rendering and re-rendering, kinda f'ed it up). Had I the money to do it all over it would look much better. But now I can take all that knowledge and put it into the next film.

I'll get a list of books together in another post.

I'm glad to hear you have a few things going. Hopefully North American Distribution is coming. I've seen lots of features with 5 fests under their belt get distribution, so I think you can definately do it. I'm with you 250% on sound. In fact, now I don't believe that any one thing is more important that sound. On my new project Coming Correct we still had sound issues in about 3 scenes. I was really upset about that. I "fixed" two scenes with ADR but still had problems in one scene. I have to test a new theory to see if I can fix it.

The theory is for outside audio recording. The problem we had was that we were in a location for 4 hours and we moved the microphone a lot. But indoors the movement of say 4 feet is not as dramatic as outside moving 4 feet. So we didn't get ambient sound every time we moved the mic. Instead we got the ambient (60 seconds) about every major move. Next time I want to get it every time we move the mic more than a foot. And run the ambient under the dialog of every character in the scene. Basically creating a mix of ambient sounds. So if you had 3 characters, in 1 location. I'd play one character's voice track and turn off his/her ambient, while turning on the other two people's ambient. And do that for the whole scene. I just noticed small hums and patterns that show up dramatically when you edit back and forth from people standing in an open field.

Audio is just so important, you throw off your audience if you get it wrong. - funny how the point of audio is so that people Don't pay attention to it. LOL

Can't wait to see your book list.
 
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Can't wait to see your book list.


Here is my list books that have helped me. Books are subjective, something that worked with me may not work for everyone, however I put a lot of research into finding just right books that I was after.

Screenwriting:
Story by Robert McKee
hard to get through, but It's got everything you would ever need to know to write a script.
Screenplay by Syd Field
My most recommended, the standard for anybody and everybody writing scripts. Easy read. Quick, well formatted and simple to understand.
Screenwriting: The sequence Approach by Paul Joseph Gulino
Most of its good. I liked the sequence approach to writing. It made it easy to format the script. The book has about 25 pages of info and then gives 200 pages of examples.
Power Screenwriting by Michael Chase Walker
The contents best describes this book:
1.Determine the central theme and expand to 3 acts.
2.Draft a three act template. create a strategy.
3.Premise.
4.External Structure.
5.Internal Structure.
6.Character Relationships.
7.Treatment.
8.Define the world.
9.Genre
10.Research.
11.Image System.
12.Scene Breakdown.
20 Master Plots and how to build them by Ronald Tobias
Self explanatory. The basic plot structure of the more standard Hollywood films. Still good enough to recommend if you intend on making any thing other than experimental or Docs.

I keep all these handy and refere to them when I'm writing. The all say to read film scripts as well, any you can get your hands on.

Film Making Pre, production and post:
Rebel without a crew by Robert Rodriguez
No explanation necessary.
Film Directing shot by shot by Steven Katz
This is the one that all students have in school. At least that's what I was had. It's a little too much of a text book, but worth mentioning.
How to shoot a feature film for under $10,000 and not go to jail by Bret Stern
I don't know if I recomend buying this book, but It's worth a look. Most of it is a joke, but It has some good parts here and there. Reel To Deal is a better alternative.
The DV Rebel's guide, An all-digital approach to making killer action movies on the cheap by Stu Maschwitz
Highly recommend this book! Especially if your at all into After Effects. There is a ton of valuable info in this book. He really knows what he's talking about, especially for digital film making. Topics are mostly shooting your self and dealing with footage in the computer. Some other stuff regarding stunts and effects on a budget as well.
From Reel to Deal by Dov SS. Simens
If you only buy one book this year, make it this one! It's literally a step by step guide to making a film. I really like the way he writes, no nonsense no bull-crap. Written by the guy who started the 2-day film school. Warning not a creative book, It's all nuts and bolts of film making.

Here are some helpful online links as well.
Budget template
Contracts and forms
Templates and utilities
Screening questionnaire
No Budget film school

I hope these add to the 24 month plan. At this point in a filmmakers career sharing information is just as important as receiving information.

-Tanem
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Thanks a bunch Tanem,

I definately think this adds a lot, especially for those who are willing to go the extra mile. I really appreciate you taking the time to post these books - heck I think I'll go out and see if I can grab a few myself. I had wanted to get the DV Rebel's Guide for a while, because I heard a lot of good things about it. I think I read part of Reel to Deal in Borders on day when I had a long wait, I'll have to take a second look at it.

Your book selection also reminds me that I need to start working on my new screenplay. I'm just so tired these days - I need like a week break to get my energy back. lol

Any other tidbits that you have feel free to share and I'm glad you came out to DVXuser. You've already proved to be a valuable asset to the website. :engel017:


For 24 Diary Readers - Here's a Good Read, posted by Chip G
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=185167
It's called Former FOX studio exec talks about the future of indies and basically discusses what some studio execs are thinking about indie cinema.
 
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Yea, while this thread has long since begun gathering dust(16 months) I'm new and I 'call 'em like and when I see 'em'. I was having a pretty good time reading (the above jls4 posts) till I got to the post from GuitarRy. While I too had personal opinions about the cost figures jls4 mentions, I found it unnecessary to take a knife out and start slashing, but rather considered to simply post my own figures from my own experience, something GuitarRy fails to do, but should have.
I spent around $2,000 for my 1st 20 minute short, including all equipment and paying 2 actresses. The final edited piece isn't online yet but will be soon. However the trailer and some other possibly useful vids I've done are(making my own clapperboard and steadycam)as well as some good, some mediocre Atlanta-area live band vids.
I welcome any thoughts and hope to make some new friends here.
www.youtube.com/armeeuff1
 
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