The 24 Diary

[jls4]

Prologue

Don't know if I'm truly "Qualified" to talk about this, but if anyone gets anything out of it, then I'm happy to help.

Background: I'm not necessarily new to the movie thing, but not really old either. I've never worked on a professional movie set although I've worked on a few TV sets, and everything I've learned has come from books, tutorials, message boards, behind the scenes, and experience. I like to talk to people and recently one of my friends told me I should teach a class, after I went to a class called “Directing Actors” only to find out the guy, who as teaching the class, knew less than me! Go figure.

What: The purpose of this is to help indies (like myself) design a way to get to the point of not only making movies, but to also be able to do it on your on terms in your own way. Doing things the “Hollywood” Way is not bad, if it works for you. But this is about another way that I think many filmmakers including Robert Rodriguez hinted on in “10 Minute Film School”. Robert did not go into detail because “his movie got picked up” – so he didn’t need to! This is basically a guide to help indies make movies all the time.

Reason why it's called "24 diary" is because I believe (I'm working on this myself) if you hustle using some of these tips for 24 months, you may become very close to your goal of being at least a minor player and being able to quit your job to work in movies. - currently I'm in phase 2.

Budgeting: I'm adding this extra bit of information because I've seen a quick miscommunitcation in this thread that should be addressed. The information and money that I'm talking about is assuming a US Market and a US Credit system. Things may work differenly in different parts of the world. Remember the US Economy is super strong - especially in the film industry.

Also remember that this information is being presented like a book, one chapter may focus on one subject - while another chapter focuses on another. I plan on writing about 30 chapters. So I may not have made it to a chapter discussing a point of filmmaking.

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Table of Contents

Chapter 1 : Robert Rodriguez and What You Didn’t Get From the “10 Minute Film School” : pg 1 #2
Chapter 2 : Your Plan pt 1 : pg 1 #3
Chapter 2 pt 2: Your Plan pt 2 : pg 1 #4
Chapter 2 pt 3: Your Plan pt 3 : pg 1 #6
Chapter 3 : Production Basics : pg 1 #7
Chapter 4 : My Story and Your Story : pg 3 #26
Chapter 5 : Rebels Without A Crew - Basics of a Small Set : pg 3 #27
Chapter 6 : The Film Look : Myths, Lies, and Videotape : pg 4 #35
Chapter 7 : Staging and Depth of Field : pg 6 #51
Chapter 8 : Location, Location, Location : pg 6 #52
Chapter 9 : Borrowing Locations with Lots of Green : pg 6 #53
Chapter 10: Homework and the Final Exam : pg 6 #57
Chapter 11: Fundraising is no Fun : pg 8 #77
Chapter 12: On Screen Dollars : pg 9 #82
Chapter 13: Filmmaker or Videographer : Time To Pick A Side : pg 9 #83
Chapter 14: Producing the Impossible Dream : pg 10 #95
Chapter 15: Backdoor Celebrities : pg 10 #96
Chapter 16: White Balance Politics : pg 13 #124
Chapter 17: Circular Stories : pg 14 #134
Chapter 18: Making a Movie from the Inside Out : pg 14 #135
Chapter 19: Your Plan pt 4: Random Concepts : pg 15 #141

 

[jls4]

Chapter 1: Robert Rodriguez and What You Didn’t Get From the “10 Minute Film School”

For those who have seen “10 Minute Film School” (located on the El Mariachi DVD) know a lot of tips that Robert Rodriguez (now known as RR for this thread) spoke about when it comes to making movies. If you haven’t seen it, shame on you. You’re not an indie and you need to be slapped! J

The biggest tip that he keeps repeating is “Go ahead and make your movie, but make it cheap!” So we got that advice down right?

Tip 1: “Make Your Movie”

Tip 2: “Make it Cheap!”

Now let’s talk about what you may have not paid attention to:
RR has a background in shorts. El Mariachi is not his first attempt into movies. So he has practical experience.
RR had basic low-level understanding on the three major aspects of movies: camera, audio and lighting.
RR also had a plan to get where he wanted in movies. – This is the part that I missed until I saw the “10 Min” for the tenth time. RR had a plan.

Tip 3: “Have a plan.”

Tip 4: “You need to have a basic understanding of all the major aspects: Camera, Audio, and Lighting”

At this point, we can say that this thread is not for those with $100K budgets or even those with $50K. If you can hire a crew and focus only on your story then find another thread to read. BUT if you’re broke and you want to make it into movies, then this info may help you.

When you are an indie (I mean no-budget to “man I’ll wash your car if you act for me” budget) then you can’t rely on anybody but yourself. Sorry – hard news – but true news. Now if you’re working in a group, then yourself means that group. But if you are the main push and your friends are just like “cool, okay I was bored anyway.” Then you are alone.

You must be responsible for basic understanding of the main 3 aspects of production quality: Camera, Audio and Lighting. Realizing that audio is just as important if not more important than Camera and Lighting combined. Basically Camera is just: how colorful or sharp the image “can be”. Lighting is needed to bring out the best in the Camera. The camera can’t do it by itself. Audio is the moment of the movie, the ambiance, the essence. Respect all 3 aspects and you can grow from here.

Final tip right now: is having a plan. Too many indies walk around with statements like “I’m have this great idea.” Wakeup call – everybody has at least one good idea in them. Ideas come from experiences and we all have experiences. Every idea can sell: been to blockbuster lately? The biggest issue that you will face has more to do with the packaging of your idea, than the idea itself. I mean I have a great idea “4 midgets (little people) find this uh… demonic ring, right and uh they journey across country while fighting off other demons right, to uh throw the ring away – into uh this big volcano – while – while! Yeah while this Big, I mean huge glowing Eyeball watches them do it!” If you liked my idea, Tolken already put it into the “Lord of the Rings” (Over 3 Billion Dollars world wide: all movies)

What you need to do is come up with a strategy to go from step 1 to step 2. If you don’t have a strategy, you’ll stay an indie forever.

 

[jls4]

Chapter 2: Your Plan pt 1

RR if you re-watch the “10 Min”, states “We planned to make 3 movies. I figured we’d sell one, make enough money to make the next one better. We’d keep doing this until we got the three movies done. And it would be a good chance for me to learn along the way.”

This is what many of you missed…

This is perfect advice. Most of us won’t have a first movie that will rocket us to fame. But what we can do is build on each movie until we can make at least “Straight to Video” films for a living. Hey! Don’t beat up on S to V movies, they made Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen rich!

I said in the prologue, that I’ve done 2 movies. We’ll the first one was done like most of you. I just got some money, “made it cheap” and then was stuck again. Only difference is that I made sure I purchased everything. I’ve run into people who rent. I know most people on this board own at least their camera. But the next tip is to own everything.

Tip 5: Own Your Equipment

This has to be a part of your plan. Otherwise it can throw you off. At this point we’ll start moving away from RR and focus more on what “I think” (like I really know anything – so remember this is all opinion that I’m hoping will help someone).

Your plan needs to include at least 3 movies. They can be sequels to each other or simply 3 different movies. I strongly encourage you to stay in 3 main categories: Action, Horror or Comedy. Sub-categories to give yourself an extra boost: (Action – any ethnicity, horror – mainly white cast, Comedy – black, white). Black horror films don’t do that well and Asian horror films do better overseas. Not trying to be racist or anything (especially since I’m a minority) but we live in America. You need to think about the demographics since they effect the selling price.

By purchasing your equipment, you can build yourself toward better movies. The idea is to start with a set of equipment and with each movie add to that equipment, which will allow you to do more. It also gives you the ability to master one set of things before moving into more items.

On my first movie I purchased:
Panasonic DVX – Approx $3300 (at the time)
Greenscreen - Approx $50
Cheap lightest - Approx $200
2 - Sennheiser 416 microphones (used) - $1600
Audio cables, Tripod, batteries, 1 or 2 costumes, fake blood.
A Computer - $1800 (at the time)
Software - $1200

All in all, I spent close to $14,000 in equipment. I can’t remember everything. This was 2003 when I made my purchases.

What I encourage you to do is the following: Set aside $9K to $15K for equipment. If you can’t afford this, then it may be more difficult for you. While Credit Cards percentage rates suck and Banks really are out to hurt you, not help you. For those coming out of school or college, many banks love to take a risk on you. So don’t buy a new car or stereo, if you want to make movies, get a CC and start charging. (to pay the money back, immediately start doing wedding videos. Wedding videos at $500 or more a pop can help you make the payments. Only do 1 wedding video a month. Don’t turn this into a job. Remember movies are your goal, not wedding videos)

What you want is to buy the top line gear, if you can’t afford it, then you need to get as many pieces as possible (top stuff) and then buy cheap, but replace the cheap as you move along.

You need to get the best camera you can buy $4K to $7K. Here’s where it gets grey. Don’t just buy a camera because you think it’s cool. Check the specs, check resolution charts. See how it works with color, etc. All cameras (even 35mm film cameras – from what I’ve heard) have drawbacks. You have to find a camera that you feel comfortable with for a long time. At this point the only thing I would tell you definitely not to invest in is MiniDV. It’s dead. And if not, it’ll be dead next year when TV goes High Def.

You need to get a microphone. I’d say go ahead and spend $1K. This mic can last you forever, so why not just get this cost behind you. Buy good cables, not cheap ones and buy a real boom Pole 11 to 13ft (most right now are around $600 to $800).

Buy cheap lights. Yep I said it. For the first movie buy cheap lights, unless you can afford more expensive ones.

Buy good software and a fast computer. If you can afford a DOF Adapter then fine, but right now don’t worry as much about it. Just try to tell a compelling story. (I’ll try to talk more on telling a good story later as well)

Now get your movie shot, keep the budget extremely low. Don’t go over $15K

Your Turn Around Time for the first movie: 5 to 9 Months.

What you need the first movie to do is teach you the basics of making a movie, learn some basics in lighting and audio and give you a realistic expectation to the filmmaking process. The first movie is either the hardest or the easiest. Who knows how it will be for you. But make sure you take more “10 min” advice and in every scene, light it differently, try new shots, move around, just practice.

Before you shoot take at least 3-4 weeks and play around with your equipment. But after that go for it. Stay on the message boards, especially DVXUser and learn what everybody knows. Read, read and read some more. Take all levels of advice, get into the areas that you think don’t concern you and read their info too.

What you want is to sell this movie for at least $35 to $50K. You’re not looking for a million dollars yet. I know that’s what you want, but you don’t know a million dollars worth of info yet. Instead, try to learn and get your money back to pay off those CCs. This should be attainable. There are a lot of companies that specialize in cheap films. (But make sure you know how to tell a story – which I’ll get to later) The Cheap Film companies rely on the cover of the movie to sell it. Basically if you’ve picked up a cover that looked cool at Blockbuster, Hollywood Video and it sucked. Audio was bad, camera work was bad, barely a story. Guess what? That’s your movie!
Spin offs of Hollywood ideas are good too. So if you know DreamWorks is pushing Transformers2 for 2009, then you can start working on TransCars so that you can use them to sell your movie. Think outside the box. This first movie sell is the hardest. So you’ve got to get creative.

 

[jls4]

Chapter 2 pt 2: Your Plan pt 2

What we wanted to establish by the first part of the plan was to make a movie and make a cheap movie, that’s okay, in an easy to sell genre. Between the time I wrote the last bit above, and today I found an article that claimed a whopping 7,500 movies get made every year. I’ve read things like that before and it always varies from 7 to 25 thousand usually.

Anyway, how does this effect you? Easy – that’s your competition. Yep, you’re competing for those distribution dollars. Doesn’t mean you can’t help somebody out – H3ll I’m trying to help you guys out right now. It just means you have to have something up your sleeve that the others don’t.

I talked briefly about making movies in the easy to sell genres. This is so important. Unless you know that your script is all that. You need to stay in the “easy sells” until you get some money. But what if you don’t like “horror” or “action” or dare I say it - “minority films” (Gay and Lesbian right now are real easy to sell) – well it doesn’t matter what you like if you need to move from where you are to where you’re going. Most of us don’t like school. I don’t like paying taxes, but that’s part of being in America (which is still a great country).

Anyway, when people make movies that are not easy sells you’re putting yourself against the wall. It’s easy to say “This is the movie Hollywood Wouldn’t Make – Is Afraid to Make – I like this idea.” But in real world terms the “Business” side of “Movie Business” needs to step in. Action movies are made in the dozens out of major Hollywood Companies because they draw crowds. Horror also has one of the largest followings with comedy. Believe it or not, most American’s don’t like to be depressed (drama) and can see your plot a mile a way (thriller). So just throw something at them, make some money and then make the movies you really want to do.

Tip 6: Use easy to sell film Genres: Action, Horror, Comedy, Minority (African-American, Gay & Lesbian, Women Empowerment, etc)

The first movie buys you some equipment and gets your money back.
The second movie does the same.

The second movie you should focus on narrowing in on certain problems and try to push to a film look. Depth of field Adapters, investment in quality Audio gear instead of piping into the camera. Lots and Lots of Lights. 1000Ks are called ‘Babies’ on a movie set for a reason. They may seem bright to video, but they are nothing to a camera with a real lens, especially if you’re working with soft light or colored light.

So the second movie has to be about improvements in Audio and Lighting. $20K should be spent this time, but it should be easier to get investors since you finished a movie. You may have had to be the sole investor in movie 1, but now you have a track record so you should get friends and family to chip in on Movie #2.

Before you start on Movie 2, make sure you test all new equipment for at least 3 to 4 weeks. Oh by the way, you were supposed to start writing your new screenplay while you were editing movie #1. Or at least obtain someone else’s.

 

[slimchrisp]

hey man. just found your thread. i hope you'll continue it. the things you've talked about so far are where i think i can be in 12 to 18 months. keep em coming!

 

[jls4]

Chapter 2 pt 3: Your Plan pt 3

I stopped writing on this thread because I thought no one cared, but Slimchrisp came along and convinced me that it was helping him. And if the thread helps just one person, it’s worth it to me.

I’ve talked about plans, and I can’t go over this enough. YOU MUST HAVE A PLAN. So if this hasn’t gotten into your head by now, you either need to reread everything up until this point OR you just need to stop reading altogether and find another thread.

After the second movie Approx Time frame 5 to 9 months. You should have been in this program from 10 to 16 months or so. Some of the months would have overlapped each other. So now it’s on to phase 3.
In part 3, what you need to do is get the largest budget you can. Movie 1 & 2 should have sold by now (2 maybe in festivals), so you should have a track record. You need to get a business plan together, if you don’t already have one. They are a pain in the butt, but you need one. If you have a hard time, maybe you can convince a friend who studied accounting to do one for you. Remember you have 2 movies now. And even if people are laughing at you because your first movie sucked and your second one is just okay, they still have to remember that you’re making money. And money talks while bullcrap walks.

Try to get several investors this time. You can even talk to Capitol Investors or friends of the family. Expand your reach. You can have up to 100 (I believe) investors in a movie and it still be considered legal. $2K from 100 people is $200K. You may not need this amount, but you’ll definitely need $125K.

By this time you’ve done 2 movies pretty much by yourself. You probably noticed in movie 2 that some areas of your production are taking serious hits. 9 times out of ten, if you’re like me those hits were in focus and audio, remember movie 2 should introduce depth of field. You need to clean those problems up. You’ll need monitors and help to do that. Having a person dedicated on audio and a person dedicated on camera, should help about 60%, and redundancy should fix the rest. They have wireless headphones so you can listen to what the audio guy listens to, and get 2 monitors, one small one for the camera and another big 18 incher for yourself. Every aspect of your movie needs to get cleaned up by the third movie.

Lighting: Bright, controlled, Filmlike, realistic
Camera: Sharp, Pans, Dollies, Cranes, Static when desired
Audio: Warm and Rich, little to no noise.
Direction: Realistic with levels based on subject and scene
Editing: Easy to follow, lots of shots and movement
Audio Mix: Clean, Easy to Hear, Sound FX, Foley

In movie 3 you’ll also need a headliner. This is where your money is going. I haven’t made it this far yet, but from what I’m told and what I’ve read. A small out of work actor with a name can cost anywhere from $15K up. A trick I was also told, is that if you shoot your movie and call in on the last day for an actor to be in say 3 scenes, you can sometimes get a discount. Hey it’s better for an actor to get $5K than No K. But if you do this, the actor doesn’t need to be a major role and make sure you have 3 or 4 actors in mind, because the guy/gal could be busy. But this is great if you have a little extra and you can throw in an extra name.

Most of your money is going to actors in the 3rd movie. It sucks I know. The rest is going to pay 3 people: Camera, Lighting, Audio. These people are needed so you can finally focus on directing. But now you know what each job entails and you can tell if the person is inexperienced or lied on their resume. Your actors and crew are only as good as YOU ARE. On the set of my last movie, if I came in tired, (which I was a lot because I was doing so much work) then my crew only gave me half effort, same with the actors. But when I was at 100%, everybody seemed to be performing at least at 95%. You can’t expect "professionals" to do what they are supposed to do all the time. I mean what does "professional" mean anyway? Example: I started my own business in photography-videography after my 1st major movie. I hadn’t done weddings ever before. After I did 3 weddings, I start saying I was a professional. It wasn’t until my 20th or so wedding that I stopped making small mistakes on people’s video or photos. I lucked up on many shots and that’s what I showed to new brides. These "professionals" are showing you their "best" work, what they aren’t telling you, "Yeah I did 2 movies, but I only lit 3 scenes well, the rest of the movie looks like crap – but hey I need your money so give me the job."

As Director / Producer the buck stops with you. You have to be strong enough to keep your people motivated and performing at their peak. If you can’t do that, you can either give up or find another place on the movie set where you fit in. There are lots of jobs, and you need to be honest with yourself. Saying you’re the best this or that and always underperforming will not help you achieve your dreams. It’s better to be the best Audio Tech and get with the right production company than to force yourself to be the next best thing to Ed Wood (worst director in history – so some say).

 

[jls4]

Chapter 3: Production Basics

The best way for you to learn good production skills is to practice, practice and practice some more. If you got As in Math, it was because you did your homework instead of watching TV. If you got Ds and Fs, you watched TV. It really is that simple.

For the most part there are two sides of production value, an artistic side and a literal side. Good thing is that most movies operate with a literal side, not an artistic side. Don’t believe me, how many movies do you see with lots of colored lights? With Bleach Bypass in post, with weird camera angles? If you count up, probably 1 out of 50, that’s not a lot. Most movies have normal color, with basic shots and basic audio. Thank God for this, it makes it real easy for you to learn and emulate.

I’m only going to go into 5 different areas of production. After these 5, you have a real budget and have no business reading my thread. So go away. Please no flame wars – because if they start, it’s because you’re assuming a “real budget” so again – go away and find another thread to read. This is for people with a $10K - $40K budget.

AUDIO:
I start with Audio because it is the most over looked aspect of making a movie. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE YOUR AUDIO. The biggest complaint of indie films is that the audio is bad. 40 to 50% of your experience and what you believe is real is based on Audio. So before you learn anything else, learn Audio!!!!

There are three basic types of mics that you will use: Shotgun, Hypercardiod (cardiod), and Lavalier.

Shotgun: basically sounds like what it does. It is pointed at the audio source (usually people’s mouths). It has a pretty good range 1 to 3 feet, but should be kept as close as possible. Shot gun is great if you only want to pick up audio in one direction. If you only have a shotgun, but you have 2 people in the shot, your audio person will have to swing the mic back and forth through the scene to pick up both people. If they don’t, one person will sound awesome and the other will sound like they are far away.

Hypercardiod: It picks up audio in a half dome pattern. Kind of like a light bulb hanging from the ceiling. The light bulb generates light in pretty much all directions except where the base is. Hypercardiods do the same thing, except they pick up audio in all directions except where their base is. Hypercardiods need to be close to the subject. Because they pick up audio from everywhere, they are made to have a small range generally a 1 foot radius. THIS IS A GOOD THING. Maybe if the grip slightly moves during a take, you won’t hear it. But this is why the mic needs to be 6 to 9 inches from the subject. These mics also get seen a lot in : The Boom’s In The Shot – type scenarios. Usually this mic is 1 inch out of the frame of the camera. All Mics need to be close to the subject. Within 1 foot 95% of the time.

Lavalier: Are simply mics that you clip on. They have the worst sound, but sometimes are needed when you can’t get the mic close because of a shot. Say you’re in a park and you want to see the whole scene. Well this mic could be used.

Quick ADR: What can save you a lot is Quick ADR, I’ll just say ADR though. On the set, if you know that you are too far away to get good audio or if several sounds are being recorded at once. Then once the main shooting is over, get close to the actors (but not too close – normal 8 inches or so) and have them to repeat whatever it is that they said – in the way that they said it. This way you have your normal ambient sound and you can overlay where you may have used Lavs (Lavaliers).

Once the scene is done, get 1 Minute of Room Tone – which is just ambient sound. Some people say 30 seconds, but what does an extra 30 seconds cost you? If you need extra, you have it. It’s better to have more than enough than not enough.


CAMERA:
Camera is probably the last major thing. Even though most people think it’s the most important thing. A good camera is simply one that can pick up light well, creates accurate colors, has enough pixels for feature use, and does some sort of progressive. (progressive is subjective because it can be faked in post)

People will argue over cameras forever – just read and study. And study the specs – not the opinions.

A Division of Camera is Camera Movement: Dollies, Cranes, Pans, etc. I’ll say add as much steady movement to your movie as possible. 1st movie may not have a lot, but try to add something with each following feature.


LIGHTING:
The second major item looked over. Lights are like frosting to a cake, hot fudge on ice cream. They make the camera perform at its best. Lighting can make a bad camera look good. Don’t spend every dime on a camera and forget lighting.

There are a million tutorials on 3 point lighting. So go out and read them. Buy a Barbie/Bratz Makeup and Hair head. There are lots of them for sale during Christmas. The heads are great because they are about 70% of the side of a human head and they have color in their skin. So when your wife/girlfriend/daughter gets tired of being your subject, you always have someone who is happy to pose for you all day.

When you’re testing lighting, leave your lights up. Don’t keep breaking down your kit. You’ll notice you’ll spend more time, if you can do something and come back and practice. And you’ll need lots of practice. Read other people’s advise, but come up with your own style.


PRODUCTION DESIGN:
The one thing most people look over – Bad Indie’s, Bad, bad indies you are. Look at those white bare walls! I’m sure I’ve seen several women out here on the boards, but I know 95% of us are guys. Wow, what a sad state of affairs. We definitely need more women. Not that I don’t like talking to a bunch of sweaty hairy men all day.

Women have one thing right – they like beautiful things. They come into a house and paint the walls red or blue or orange and put pictures up and flowers and such. We as men look at them and say “what’s the purpose of this?” and women say “it looks nice.” And we come back with “you’re spending my money on something that looks nice?”

Truth is women are right. Those white bare walls look like crap. So you need to fix them. Paint all the walls in the areas that you are going to shoot a deep rich color. Pick Reds, Oranges, Blues, Violets, Blacks, etc. Stay away from Pink, Off-white, Baige, and white. Go to the Salvation Army and buy some fake plants, and stands, and books. Then go buy or make some painting canvases. You can make them from fabric and a few pieces of cut wood put together with a staple gun. Paint some abstract design on the canvas. It doesn’t have to be perfect, it just needs to be colorful. Then put these large (at least 16x20) pictures on the wall (don’t use copyrighted material – make your own!). Put the flowers in the corner – in essence fill up the room with stuff.

The basics to production design are colored filled walls and pretty much every area of the room filled with something. You’ll notice that when you do this, you’re movie is going to start looking awesome and the average person doesn’t know why. It’s because simply, is it better to look at a sunset or a white wall?


MAKEUP & HAIR
Don’t start flaming me. This came up on another post. I’m just posting my feelings here.

Makeup is important and not important in the same sentence. Makeup’s purpose is to give color to skin, cover up bad skin, take the sheen off of skin, or really add sheen to skin. It also helps for certain features to pop out or is used for special effects – like say a Horror movie.

If you’re doing horror – get a good makeup artist. You can learn, but not sure it’ll be worth it. You need to figure out that one for yourself. But if you’re doing comedy or action, you’re in another ball park.

What I’ve done and will continue to do, is give $30 to my actors and let them go to a MAC store and buy a power close to their skin tone. Guys too! This fixes 80% of your problems. They apply makeup between takes and you’re all good. Most actors try to take care of their skin and having a makeup artist only slows down production. Think about it 3 actors need makeup and you have 2 makeup artists. All 3 could be doing their own makeup at the same time, vs. two getting makeup done, while a third waits. Also most women are very proficient in putting on makeup. They’ve been doing it since 13. Remember you’re broke, so you need to keep your costs down.

And by the way as far as wardrobe – actors wear their own clothes. If you need a special outfit or if you’re going to spill colored corn syrup on them – go to the Goodwill or some second hand store and buy them an outfit.


All of these things can help you. It’s up to you to do the homework on each one. But the basics I’ve outlined here should get you thorough 85% of your shots, but only if you practice. Remember after your equipment arrives and before shooting day 1, you need to practice for at least 28 days to make sure you’re good. And work at least 3 hours a day. I didn’t say this making a new life for yourself in film was going to be easy. You have to want it. If you’re not better than 90% of the other indies – you won’t make it! Remember over 5,000 movies get made every year, over 90% will never see distribution. So you have to ask yourself everyday how much you want it. Might be good to put a couple of signs on your walls that encourage you. One thing you’ll notice is that some of the people you “think” are on your side, may turn their backs on you as soon as they see you’re hurting. You have to be self reliant!

 

[GuitarRy]

Cheers mr. jls4,

thank you for stealing 20minutes of my life. Sorry for being unkind but your post or tipps about how to do good with movies are far... no extremely far and even further beyond reality.

I carefuly claim that this is the reason why noone answers as you thought they might.

Telling me that i should spend 9k$ to 12k$ for equipment is bullshi*.
I think,... no i am sure that there is almost nobody that is able or even willing to spend that amount of money. (Listen people: get a cam for 300dollar ask your friend if you can have his and just do the movie. The equipment doesn't matter - it is the story, the message, the statement that matters)

Another funny an crappy thing you mentioned is that one will make 10k$ to 50k$ with a movie.
Please be next to me when i do another movie i am sure i will be rich. No, ill give you 50%... no let's say 80% of the money if we make it.

Gee, i usually never react like that. I really feel sorry because this is the first time i ever ... anyway.

Have a nice evening
Garry

 

[slimchrisp]

Cheers mr. jls4,

thank you for stealing 20minutes of my life. Sorry for being unkind but your post or tipps about how to do good with movies are far... no extremely far and even further beyond reality...

ok, normally when someone acts like a complete and total a$$ (exhibit a :smiley_up) i just ignore it. expressing differing opinions, cool. slamming someone for taking their time to share some knowledge, not cool. this time, i asked the OP for some more posts, so i'm not going to ignore it.

i've read several of jls4's threads, and he has some extremely relevant experience that has a lot of value to low budget guys such as myself. i'm not going to speak for him, but suffice it to say that in addition to his own productions, he has other experience. and i want to learn from those experiences he has had. i'm a big fan of adam and the corrado thread, but i don't have 350K plus 100K in gear laying around. so, i am interested in hearing how other indie filmmakers are doing things.

as of this post GuitarRy, you have 41 posts in about 9 months. based on that you're a relative newcomer and occasional poster to dvxuser. so maybe you don't really know what these boards are all about. dvxuser is a community of filmmakers, helping eachother out by sharing knowledge. it is not a place to be a jerk for no reason.

so again, if you want to challenge someone's opionions, by all means, go for it. saying things like "Telling me that i should spend 9k$ to 12k$ for equipment is bullshi*" and "Another funny an crappy thing you mentioned is that one will make 10k$ to 50k$ with a movie.
Please be next to me when i do another movie i am sure i will be rich." is just useless, and not helpful at all.

so if you're only point was to show you're a negative person who wants to talk down to people, then well done. you succeed. :beer: but that's not what these boards are for.

i hope some others will show the love and support this thread. i don't expect someone to make posts just for me after all.

 

[smelni]

Yeah - what slimchrisp said

 

[GuitarRy]

Cheers,

simply, that is my opinion. As i said, i usually don't do that. Besides; jls4 is able to give a statement himself but letting him being "defended" by you. I am not a fan of being a wh*** and lying to people. I just say what i think. Is that okay with you?

I would want that people be honest so as i did.

so i apologize again for being unpolite. (as i already did)
Garry

 

[smelni]

I dont think anyone would ask you to be dishonest - but there is a tactful way to say things within the understood guidelines of communication on a message board. For example:

"its hard for people to spend so much money on equipment so I think renting is a better option."

Is probably better and will be more well received then:

" Telling me that i should spend 9k$ to 12k$ for equipment is bullshi*. "

But then again - that might make you feel like a wh***

 

[jls4]

Cheers mr. jls4,

thank you for stealing 20minutes of my life. ...

far... no extremely far and even further beyond reality.

...

Another funny an crappy thing you mentioned is that one will make 10k$ to 50k$ with a movie.
Please be next to me when i do another movie i am sure i will be rich. No, ill give you 50%... no let's say 80% of the money if we make it.
...

Besides; jls4 is able to give a statement himself but letting him being "defended" by you. I am not a fan of being a wh*** and lying to people. I just say what i think. Is that okay with you?

You're right I can defend myself. But I do thank those that spoke up for me. In this thread I've constantly reminded people that if you have money, or access to great things, then stop reading the thread. I'm trying to avoid people like you, Garry, that will not find this information helpful. I had stopped writing this thread, until I was asked to resume.

So if you can't read my constant : "Leave this post and find another one - if this info isn't for you", then I have to say - were you really reading?

I've learned from others and you can make mistakes and make a successful life at making movies. Every one seems to speak to Low Budget people instead of speaking to No-Budget people. If someone can't make a success with $500K then in my opinion they don't have a story or they don't have what it takes. I know for a fact, even with my crappy first movie, if I had $200K I could have had better actors, better lighting, camera work, etc and I probably wouldn't be speaking to you right now. But I didn't have all of that. I had a credit card and a dream. All I'm doing now is sheding light on how I got a movie made and got it distributed and my plans to not only do it again, but make sure I can do it anytime I wish.

I started this thread, like I said in the beginning because people were asking me to teach classes and such. And I was like "Who Am I?" but then I took a class and I knew more than the guy teaching the class. I've helped so many filmmakers that I can't remember what the count is. But if you don't like my teaching, then like the thread has already said about 5 times - find another DANG thread to read.

And for your info. I have made a movie for $14K and sold it and made my money back. I'm on my second movie which right now is still under $24K and I have a good chance of making my money back again. I've worked on several TV shows, shorts and other stuff. I'm currently helping 2 groups in Atlanta with their first feature film. And I've created a program to lower the cost of the first movie - for those in the Atlanta area - to help their dream become a reality.

To me the best way to make it is to constantly help other people, maybe if Slimchrisp makes a million dollars on a film and runs into me at a festival - he may say "Jls4 you really helped me out - sure I'll executive produce your next movie - $150K no problem." That's why you should be nice to people - that's why you should network.

 

[metro2307]

I've enjoyed this thread so far. A lot of us, I believe, like to read about others experiences. I may not agree with everything, but I still find the posts informative.

 

[jls4]

I've enjoyed this thread so far. A lot of us, I believe, like to read about others experiences. I may not agree with everything, but I still find the posts informative.

Thanks for your comments. And truth is - you don't have to agree with everything. Hopefully some of the information will help somebody. I wish when I was making my first movie, I knew about what I know now. I could have stretched that money much further or done it much cheaper and better.

If I have time, I'll try to get Chapter 4 done in the next few days.

 

[metro2307]

Cheers mr. jls4,

thank you for stealing 20minutes of my life. Sorry for being unkind but your post or tipps about how to do good with movies are far... no extremely far and even further beyond reality.

You don't seem sorry.

I carefuly claim that this is the reason why noone answers as you thought they might.

Not careful enough. Some users just read without comment. It doesn't mean they aren't enjoying the thread.

Telling me that i should spend 9k$ to 12k$ for equipment is bullshi*.
I think,... no i am sure that there is almost nobody that is able or even willing to spend that amount of money. (Listen people: get a cam for 300dollar ask your friend if you can have his and just do the movie. The equipment doesn't matter - it is the story, the message, the statement that matters)

I watched your trailer.

Another funny an crappy thing you mentioned is that one will make 10k$ to 50k$ with a movie.
Please be next to me when i do another movie i am sure i will be rich. No, ill give you 50%... no let's say 80% of the money if we make it.

I watched your trailer.

Gee, i usually never react like that. I really feel sorry because this is the first time i ever ... anyway.

Are you being "honest" now?

Have a nice evening
Garry

Garry, here's my point. I think you could ask some valuable questions and add to the discussion of No-Budget filmmaking. But, you're coming off like you know more about the process than jls4, and your work simply doesn't support your claim. You think jls4 is wrong or lying? Prove it. Don't ask us to take your word for it based on your trailer. It simply does not give you the credentials to make your statements without backing them up.

That said, I hope you decide to contribute to this thread. You certainly have passion and you clearly appear to have opinions. Just please back up what you say and do it in a manner that readers can take seriously. We will all benefit from whatever insights you truly have to offer.

 

[Mattykins]

JLS4, good read - but when you post your next one can you stick with the standard white text? Kills me to read with the black. Just personal preference here.

And in regards to being a whore. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I personally rent gear. Though I shoot 16mm, RED, or with a CineAlta. And I don't have the 500,000 to put together a CineAlta camera package so I don't have to rent.

But it comes down to different strokes for different folks. Yes - the acting and story is more important than gear. I've seen some terrible RED footage. I've seen amazing HV20 footage. The camera doesn't make the story, but it helps. Owning gear lowers costs on production if you plan on shooting for an extended amount of time. You can also rent said gear to make back some money.

Renting works for short periods of time, or when shooting with a high end camera system. I guess that is what you need to think about. What you want to shoot on, and how long, and then do a cost breakdown and figure out the investment. I know people who have made their money back when they purchased an F23. To each his own.

 

[GuitarRy]

Cheers,
@metro2307: thanks for your comment. In case people want me to contribute i will do.

What did you mean by telling me that you watched my trailer?

And "yes"; i was honest for sure. Still this is my opinion. I don't want people ( in case they criticise) to say something like "i don't really think that your point was right" in case they thought "this is the worst sh** i have ever read".

greetings
Garry

*ah and there are threads on dvx where people present their movies and users go like "ahw, this movie s**ks so hard."-etc... and nobody reacts.

 

[metro2307]

Cheers,
@metro2307: thanks for your comment. In case people want me to contribute i will do.

What did you mean by telling me that you watched my trailer?

And "yes"; i was honest for sure. Still this is my opinion. I don't want people ( in case they criticise) to say something like "i don't really think that your point was right" in case they thought "this is the worst sh** i have ever read".

greetings
Garry

*ah and there are threads on dvx where people present their movies and users go like "ahw, this movie s**ks so hard."-etc... and nobody reacts.

Garry,

Your trailer shows your level of experience, your lack of equipment and your judgment as a director/filmmaker. You have a ways to go and the trailer clearly demonstrates that you do not have the credentials to back up your statements or criticize any filmmaker yet. You're a point-and-shoot home movie maker.

If you believe that jls4 is wrong, then prove it. Back it up with facts. He can handle it and we can all benefit from good insight. But, ranting without explanation is pointless in this kind of thread. You are not giving us a reason to take you seriously. Back up your honesty with truth. Back up your truth with facts.

Your last point is pointless, in light of the discussion. Some users just read the thread without comment for all kinds of reasons. Just because people may not reply to a thread doesn't mean they don't like the thread or that they disagree with the content. In my case I usually don't add comments because I'd rather see the space be used for more content. In this case, I replied to you because your posts do nothing to promote an understanding of filmmaking and do nothing but distract from the content of the thread. I am interested in jls4's experience as a filmmaker, not how many times you can use asterisks in the middle of your words. This is his experience. I want to read about it.

Still, I would encourage you to join the discussion in a professional manner so that we can share in your experiences as well. Just because you phrase it a certain way in your mind does not necessarily mean that there is any value in seeing it printed that way. Give us a professional perspective and spare us the teenage angst. If you can't do that, just allow jls4 to write about his experience, which is the purpose of the thread.

cheers.

 

[jls4]

JLS4, good read - but when you post your next one can you stick with the standard white text? Kills me to read with the black. Just personal preference here.

Oops - I write in Microsoft Word so I can spell check everything. I don't do it on normal posts. I'll try to be more mindful. I've fixed all the current posts to white text.

And in regards to being a whore. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. I personally rent gear. Though I shoot 16mm, RED, or with a CineAlta. And I don't have the 500,000 to put together a CineAlta camera package so I don't have to rent.

Not to say you guys are lying, but where do I say "whore"? I'm trying to find what context I said in in. I'm not denying it, just can't find where I said it.

But it comes down to different strokes for different folks. Yes - the acting and story is more important than gear. I've seen some terrible RED footage. I've seen amazing HV20 footage. The camera doesn't make the story, but it helps. Owning gear lowers costs on production if you plan on shooting for an extended amount of time. You can also rent said gear to make back some money.

Renting works for short periods of time, or when shooting with a high end camera system. I guess that is what you need to think about. What you want to shoot on, and how long, and then do a cost breakdown and figure out the investment. I know people who have made their money back when they purchased an F23. To each his own.

The reason why I'm 100% toward buying equipment is that when you buy - it's yours. there's a point like you said above where camera equip starts loosing it's value in regards to story. But my plan and those who use it, is just simply that, a plan. You have to find and create your own. At this point, I own over $40K ($40,000) worth of equipment. I obtained all of this through the 2 movies I've worked on. At this point, when I make another movie - immediately I have the quality of that $40K worth of equipment.

I don't believe in Renting simply because when you rent it takes away from "Practice time", doesn't aid you if your shoot goes over (and for indie features it usually does), and can sometimes cost you just as much as it cost to buy. In Atlanta, GA, USA it costs $300 to $350 a day to rent a HVX200 and $350 to $400 a day to rent an EX1. A Feature film needs close to 7 to 10 days to shoot. $400 x 10 = $4000. 2 Features x 10 days x $400 = $8000. Ex1s only cost $6500.

My plan is for features only and not shorts. It's also not for those who just want to make one movie. It's designed for those who want to turn movie making into a living and are now really motivated to do so. It took me 12 years to get as motivated as I am now. And at this point, I'll almost bite my arm off to become a person who only makes movies. :laugh: