The 24 Diary

How my reply wound up on page 16 of this thread I haven't a clue, but it is where it is and I'm with the majority here, tho I too have diff. cost numbers, I'm leaving the knife on the table!
 
Jls I've basically been following your plan (modified to my own purposes) since I started EXIT 101. When I first came here and started posting I was a complete newbie to most everything. I had done some extra work, but thats about it. I spent 3 months writing my script, and had one location that I knew I HAD to have. Upon making contact with the owners of said location, opened up a zillion other doors for the project. The film has been funded completely out of my pockets, and from donations from locals.. one of which is an associate producer because of it. This put me in contact with my DP/director who graduated from SCAD and since I had no experience directing and I wanted to act in the film.. I let him direct it. I purchased the best camera I could afford (Canon HV40) and the cheapest/best lights I could afford and borrowed everything else. All the locations were donated except for one we had to rent for 150.00 day. We shot there for two days. Just to give everyone an idea of how your plan works... Here's a break down of what I've spent.. and what we've accomplished with only 3 days left before we wrap principal.

GEAR
--------
1 - Canon HV40 - 800.00
2 - 500w chinese redheads - 150.00
6 - CFL bulbs and stands - Borrowed/already had
5 - 500w worklights - Borrowed/already had
1 - 500w flood light - Borrowed/already had
2 - Softbox lights - Borrowed/already had
- Gitzo Boom pole - Borrowed
- Sennheisser shotgun mic - Borrowed
- Beher Dynamics mic - Borrowed
- Azden SGM1X - 160.00
- Zoom H4N w/ 16gb card - 300.00
- Gel pack - 30.00
- Velbon tripod - 150.00
- track dolly - Borrowed
- Jib arm - Borrowed
- Headphones - 50.00
- Mic cables - already had
- HDV tapes (the best you could get) - 150.00

Props/Costumes
------------
(only stuff we had to pay for.)
- 7 custom made halloween costumes for main cast - 200.00 (we only had to buy the materials)
- Sheriff, deputy, and EMT uniforms - Associate producer paid for these
- Cheerleading costumes - Associate producer paid for these
- Fake Blood (makeup only) - 30.00 for the Ben Nye Brand half gallon.. has lasted the entire film.
- Fake Blood (for splatter)We've used a secret recipe that I won't share here. Its CHEAP and used in the right way looks like real blood. We've used a TON of it.
- Liquid Latex - 16.00 a bottle (I bought 2 bottles, but haven't used all of the first one yet.. not even close)
- Nose and scar wax - Haven't used this at all but it cost 18.00
- Plastic tubing - 5.00
- Several large syringes - 10.00
(I did all the fx myself, because I happen to have a knack for it)

OTHER
---------
- Craft Services -
Subway - 60.00
Dominoes - 60.00
(the rest was donated, or we had someone we knew cook for everyone and they paid for everything)

Grand Total: 2189.00

What? You say? Thats impossible! Not if you do your research and are in the right location. What does this mean for me? It means that ANY distribution deal will net me a profit, to be able to give my actors and crew something and fund the next one! Besides that, I've networked with so many people through this one.. tons more people have gotten on board to help with the next one, who may have missed out this time. NETWORKING is the most important thing any indie film maker can do IMO. I'll probably make back my money just at the local premiere here at our theater. They are bringing out the red carpets and spotlights, and I'm pretty sure it will be sold out opening night.

So far I've already got TWO potential deals on the table just through networking.
I've secured one investor for the next film also via networking. I also already have most of the cast.

Here's a list of things I had donated, that would have been impossible to get otherwise on my budget..

- Ambulance
- 2 modern sheriff's cars
- 1 vintage sheriff's car
- Real chemical lab
- Real college classroom

Now, it wasn't EASY.. and I learned a heck of a lot and I know now what to do, and what not to do for film #2. I'm shooting a short (for thrillfest) before embarking on my next feature.. to test my new camera, and to test my chops as actor/director rolled into one. Here's what I've learned..

- Use LESS locations (we'd already be done if we hadn't had so many darn locations.)
- Use smaller cast (so I can actually pay them something)
- Use as few extras as possible (98% of our issues was with extras)
- The DP will not also be the director.
- Keep alcohol off set, even if it means losing crew members.
- Edit as we film, vs. doing it all in post.
- Pay the main actors at least, if not all the cast
- Use a small crew of people who know what they are doing. vs. a big crew of volunteers who have no clue. We got more done with a 3-4 man crew who knew what they were doing than we did when we had 10 man crews of volunteers we had to show everything to.
- Hire a dedicated lighting tech.

There you have it. My experience thus far!
 
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Wow, Azmyth (Joseph)

I'm flattered. Thanks so much for your accolades and helping out this thread. I hoped that it could help new people get into the world of cinema and it has - so thank you thank you thank you. All my hopes have been realized. :Drogar-Happy(DBG):

Azmyth said:
What? You say? Thats impossible! Not if you do your research and are in the right location. What does this mean for me? It means that ANY distribution deal will net me a profit, to be able to give my actors and crew something and fund the next one! Besides that, I've networked with so many people through this one.. tons more people have gotten on board to help with the next one, who may have missed out this time. NETWORKING is the most important thing any indie film maker can do IMO. I'll probably make back my money just at the local premiere here at our theater. They are bringing out the red carpets and spotlights, and I'm pretty sure it will be sold out opening night.

So far I've already got TWO potential deals on the table just through networking.
I've secured one investor for the next film also via networking. I also already have most of the cast.
Click to expand...

Nothing is impossible. There are just people with limited mindsets. I've noticed it's easier for people to be negative than positive. When you are positive you have to believe in something bigger than yourself, when you are negative you get to enjoy the hope of mediocrity.

I do need to get better with my Networking. Martin Kelly (who you also know, from Atlanta) is great with this. I've brought in a young lady to help our team, since none of us are that good with the marketing/networking side of things

Azmyth said:
- Use LESS locations (we'd already be done if we hadn't had so many darn locations.)
- Use smaller cast (so I can actually pay them something)
- Use as few extras as possible (98% of our issues was with extras)
- The DP will not also be the director.
- Keep alcohol off set, even if it means losing crew members.
- Edit as we film, vs. doing it all in post.
- Pay the main actors at least, if not all the cast
- Use a small crew of people who know what they are doing. vs. a big crew of volunteers who have no clue. We got more done with a 3-4 man crew who knew what they were doing than we did when we had 10 man crews of volunteers we had to show everything to.
- Hire a dedicated lighting tech.

There you have it. My experience thus far!
Click to expand...

Everything you listed above I can agree with. People give up quickly on small sets - really sad too because many directors from Sam Raimi to Spike Lee once had a small set and had to ask favors of people. When you direct Spiderman 9, trust me the same people who walked out on you will be beating down your door.

I now call them project hoppers / project destroyers. They try to be involved with so many projects and either get overloaded or disgusted with a project quickly. Several filmmaker friends of mine have had issues so bad that they had to literally rewrite the script on set to fix the projects.

I also agree with the 3 to 4 man crew, in fact I can do better with 2 to 3 people than I can with 4, unless the 4 are my main people. Right now for our current project we've been basically shooting with 2.5 in most scenes. The main difference to up the quality in our new project is that I'm taking more time per scene, which during "Coming Correct" I was quick to try to shoot a one minute scene in 90 to 120 minutes, now I'm doing 45 seconds over 3 hours.

As for the lighting tech, you can hire me! LOL OR if you come by I'll teach you how to light for yourself. It's not difficult at all, but it is a skill that is very importaint. It's amazing how many people call themselves lighting folks that can't get 3 point lighting right and have never studied enough to change the overall feel. Heck I'm not perfect - no where near - but what we are doing for our new project blows away 85% of the indies I've seen out of Atlanta.

Anyhoo, good luck with your project I can't wait to see it. Make sure you invite me to the premiere! BTW The Plaza downton on Ponce is a petty good spot. I just saw a premiere there on Sunday and the theater is nice and they have a decent rate.

For Those Interested Azmyth's Exit 101 thread can be found HERE
 
Azmyth said:
What? You say? Thats impossible! Not if you do your research and are in the right location. What does this mean for me? It means that ANY distribution deal will net me a profit, to be able to give my actors and crew something and fund the next one!
Click to expand...

Azmyth,

Whoah...slow the roll a little. In the can is one thing. Delivering is another. You'll likely run into costs and many distribution deals these days don't include Guaranteed money. So that's not a forgone conclusion that you'll be in the black with ANY deal.

Great job though with all you've been able to do. Wish I had investors at the ready for my next project :)

Good luck with the rest of the shoot and with post.

-Martin
 
jls4 said:
I do need to get better with my Networking. Martin Kelley (who you also know, from Atlanta) is great with this.
Click to expand...

Ha. Thanks but I wish I was good at it.

I wish I had someone to help me out with more of this.

And I agree with the smaller crew points as well.

I've got a great small crew that can hump...of course it often includes me (the producer) filling in on sound at times but it works.

-Martin
 
Martay said:
Ha. Thanks but I wish I was good at it.

I wish I had someone to help me out with more of this.

And I agree with the smaller crew points as well.

I've got a great small crew that can hump...of course it often includes me (the producer) filling in on sound at times but it works.

-Martin
Click to expand...

Hey Martin - I'm always working. LOL I've been on sets where a director or producer just tells other people what to do, but that's not me. I don't think it'll ever be me. We recently added a new guy to our crew that had worked with one of our lead actors on another project. The first day on set he was trying to do everything - so I wouldn't have to. I turned to him and told him "I'm not one of those type of directors." He looked shocked and laughed.

But Martin, don't under estimate yourself. I've told many people my short list to watch (that have great potential to blow up) and you've always been on that list. I like your humility - but you're better than 98% of the producers in the Southeast. Believe it.
 
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Martay said:
Azmyth,

Whoah...slow the roll a little. In the can is one thing. Delivering is another. You'll likely run into costs and many distribution deals these days don't include Guaranteed money. So that's not a forgone conclusion that you'll be in the black with ANY deal.

Great job though with all you've been able to do. Wish I had investors at the ready for my next project :)

Good luck with the rest of the shoot and with post.

-Martin
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I was just stating that I am in a very good position to profit from this vs. go in the hole. I could even self distribute and still make my money back if nothing else. I was just getting the point across that networking opens alot of doors.
 
Azmyth said:
Jls I've basically been following your plan (modified to my own purposes) since I started EXIT 101. When I first came here and started posting I was a complete newbie to most everything. I had done some extra work, but thats about it. I spent 3 months writing my script, and had one location that I knew I HAD to have. Upon making contact with the owners of said location, opened up a zillion other doors for the project. The film has been funded completely out of my pockets, and from donations from locals.. one of which is an associate producer because of it. This put me in contact with my DP/director who graduated from SCAD and since I had no experience directing and I wanted to act in the film.. I let him direct it. I purchased the best camera I could afford (Canon HV40) and the cheapest/best lights I could afford and borrowed everything else. All the locations were donated except for one we had to rent for 150.00 day. We shot there for two days. Just to give everyone an idea of how your plan works... Here's a break down of what I've spent.. and what we've accomplished with only 3 days left before we wrap principal.

GEAR
--------
1 - Canon HV40 - 800.00
2 - 500w chinese redheads - 150.00
6 - CFL bulbs and stands - Borrowed/already had
5 - 500w worklights - Borrowed/already had
1 - 500w flood light - Borrowed/already had
2 - Softbox lights - Borrowed/already had
- Gitzo Boom pole - Borrowed
- Sennheisser shotgun mic - Borrowed
- Beher Dynamics mic - Borrowed
- Azden SGM1X - 160.00
- Zoom H4N w/ 16gb card - 300.00
- Gel pack - 30.00
- Velbon tripod - 150.00
- track dolly - Borrowed
- Jib arm - Borrowed
- Headphones - 50.00
- Mic cables - already had
- HDV tapes (the best you could get) - 150.00

Props/Costumes
------------
(only stuff we had to pay for.)
- 7 custom made halloween costumes for main cast - 200.00 (we only had to buy the materials)
- Sheriff, deputy, and EMT uniforms - Associate producer paid for these
- Cheerleading costumes - Associate producer paid for these
- Fake Blood (makeup only) - 30.00 for the Ben Nye Brand half gallon.. has lasted the entire film.
- Fake Blood (for splatter)We've used a secret recipe that I won't share here. Its CHEAP and used in the right way looks like real blood. We've used a TON of it.
- Liquid Latex - 16.00 a bottle (I bought 2 bottles, but haven't used all of the first one yet.. not even close)
- Nose and scar wax - Haven't used this at all but it cost 18.00
- Plastic tubing - 5.00
- Several large syringes - 10.00
(I did all the fx myself, because I happen to have a knack for it)

OTHER
---------
- Craft Services -
Subway - 60.00
Dominoes - 60.00
(the rest was donated, or we had someone we knew cook for everyone and they paid for everything)

Grand Total: 2189.00

What? You say? Thats impossible! Not if you do your research and are in the right location. What does this mean for me? It means that ANY distribution deal will net me a profit, to be able to give my actors and crew something and fund the next one! Besides that, I've networked with so many people through this one.. tons more people have gotten on board to help with the next one, who may have missed out this time. NETWORKING is the most important thing any indie film maker can do IMO. I'll probably make back my money just at the local premiere here at our theater. They are bringing out the red carpets and spotlights, and I'm pretty sure it will be sold out opening night.

So far I've already got TWO potential deals on the table just through networking.
I've secured one investor for the next film also via networking. I also already have most of the cast.

Here's a list of things I had donated, that would have been impossible to get otherwise on my budget..

- Ambulance
- 2 modern sheriff's cars
- 1 vintage sheriff's car
- Real chemical lab
- Real college classroom

Now, it wasn't EASY.. and I learned a heck of a lot and I know now what to do, and what not to do for film #2. I'm shooting a short (for thrillfest) before embarking on my next feature.. to test my new camera, and to test my chops as actor/director rolled into one. Here's what I've learned..

- Use LESS locations (we'd already be done if we hadn't had so many darn locations.)
- Use smaller cast (so I can actually pay them something)
- Use as few extras as possible (98% of our issues was with extras)
- The DP will not also be the director.
- Keep alcohol off set, even if it means losing crew members.
- Edit as we film, vs. doing it all in post.
- Pay the main actors at least, if not all the cast
- Use a small crew of people who know what they are doing. vs. a big crew of volunteers who have no clue. We got more done with a 3-4 man crew who knew what they were doing than we did when we had 10 man crews of volunteers we had to show everything to.
- Hire a dedicated lighting tech.

There you have it. My experience thus far!
Click to expand...

This is great! Way to break it down. People don't understand these days how you can do a movie for little or nothing. The way technology has advanced, you don't need very much. Creativity, belief, dedication and positivity will take you a long way. Bravo for what you've learned after doing your first feature - well said.
 
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The key to the ultra low budget film is to find the best "paying" deal possible. If York gives you 0% for an $800 film and the film is good and you get some exposure (especially if you're starring in it) then you've lost nothing. If you pay $5000 from it and get $0 then you've lost $5000. If you pay $800 - $5000, (say you get a deal with Maverick) and get $20,000 you've profited. It makes sense, otherwise you may be better off self distributing.

-Nate
 
Interesting points Nate, the key overall is simply to add not subtract from yourself. And learn during the process.
 
Yes, but as you learn you want to move forward in creating the best product you can with what you've learned. BUT before that even comes up, what are your goals. Some people just want to shoot a film others want to shoot a film and sell it. Others want to shoot an self distribute. The goals should be established up front. Like with "Wages of Sin" I said upfront if I couldn't get a good deal I'll self distribute. I stuck to that.

-Nate
 
I've seen JLS4 but do want to see him come back to give us updates. He's working hard and making things happen here in ATL.

I'll let him do an official update though.

-Martin
 
@Martin - thanks for trying to give others an update on me.

@happymercenarystudios - Yes. I've been really busy. I'm doing some work with some Celebs on about 5 projects. I can't really go into them right now, but I'll try to give some updates to the 24 diary and my other two threads "Coming Correct" and "Between Friends" soon. I'm just trying to feel out everything and things are moving very fast, so I don't want to start dropping "info" and it's not truly helpful to anyone because I'm currently only seeing one side of it and not the full picture. I've definately learned a lot since I've started this thread and would love to tell you guys more info to help you get ahead.
 
Great thread jls4, after all these years, anything new you'd now add which is specifically relevant to the new (almost) 2016 world we live in?
 
IronFilm said:
Great thread jls4, after all these years, anything new you'd now add which is specifically relevant to the new (almost) 2016 world we live in?
Click to expand...

Thanks. I guess it would be nice for me to update this thread. I've thought about rewriting the information and putting it on my blog. My biggest concern now in the 2016 world is distribution. I'm not a huge fan of the $1 a download for movies. I haven't run into anyone who has been successful with that distribution strategy. In fact, I had a discussion on these boards with someone a few years ago. The guy was excited that Blockbuster was going away and therefor smaller no-budget films would die off. I was upset for the same reason. His argument was that even indie films needed a "real budget" and he wanted to make sure that the concept of an "indie film" didn't give people the idea of a thrown together project that audiences didn't enjoy. While I understood his point, I liked the fact that indie movies gave people a chance to learn and grow, especially for those who never went to school or didn't have the connections to get a million plus dollars.

Anyway, I think the future of film now lies more in YouTube like things were, many many scores of years ago. In this concept a filmmaker makes the best 3 to 10 minute film they can and YouTube becomes a constant film festival. Movies like PIXELS, DISTRICT 9, and a few others have already shown that this formula works. With YouTube rankings and views plus things like Kickstarter and the fact that producers are perusing YouTube looking for new ideas, I believe that's the key these days. Either you find someone, or you make the argument for your film, paid for upfront by your audience.

I'd like to talk more about Virtual Backlots, i.e. changing your background and scenes using greenscreen. I believe that is the key these days for smaller projects. I'd also love for more people to start conversations about filmmaking out here on DVX. I still come out here from time to time, but it's not like it was ten years ago where there was always something to learn.
 
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