Archiving Footage in the REAL WORLD

russc

russc

Active member
Ok we are well into the existance of these P2 cameras. What are you guys REALLY doing for your archiving solutions? Not just theory, like "TRY DLT tape or Blue Ray disc," etc. What are those of you out there working on long form projects REALLY doing?
I am currently in the middle of shooting two feature length projects, using both the HVX200 and The HPX500... using Mac and Final Cut I have Hard drives up the Yin Yang getting filled. Ultimately we would all like to put some of this stuff on a shelf on a solid state... something...
I am interested to hear what anyone else in this situation is ACTUALLY doing.

Does Mac even have a blue ray capabilty? HDDVD? What are the models?

Is there an internal or external burner I can get for this G5 that would allow me to start dumping some these P2 folders of raw footage that I haved created onto Hi def DVDs?

If I did, could someone explain how you could possibly break up content to go across discs if you need to fill them... doesn't that screw thing up with whole P2 file system?

Any answers are greatly appreciated as my office is filling with hard drives. And, as we know, one of the reasons we went to P2 was because we don't trust Moving parts in the Long term.
So Plaese help me get off these drives with best solution for mac running FCP Studio today.

thanks

Russ
 
Not the answer you want to hear - but I'm doing what you are, filling up hard drives, until I can either safely delete footage, or a better solution presents itself.

Essentially I've been buying a new hard drive for each project I"m working on. So my shelf is getting filled up with 500GB drives at the moment.

I know, not ideal - but the most cost and time effective for me right now.
 
I am also storing the DVCPro HD clips on external hard drives.

For some footage in certain projects that is deemed for web streaming purposes only, I have been compressing the fooatge down to 1280x720 HD Windows Media which saves a lot of space and looks great. This footage can usually be stored on DVD discs.
 
I concur that the least expensive archiving medium is the "loss leader hard drive." I have an article about archiving.backup strategies coming in an upcoming DV Magazine and that is one of my recommendations for cost effectiveness. A more expensive method upfront is a Quantum networked DLT drive. The new Quantums can read tape randomly rather than the old sequential method. While you're talking anywhere from $7500-$11K for the intial unit, the 300 gb tapes are in the $40 range. This is a good larger studio to enterprise solution.

Me... I check Fry's ads every Thursday and see what's on sale. Lately I've been buying Seagate 750's for $199. Invest in a Wievetech ComboDock (formerly Drive Dock) and just archive to bare drives, put the drive in the anti-static bag and stick it in a Fireproof vault.

The hot-swap SATA solution is basically the same thing.

Ned Soltz
 
We are currently getting a quote for the Quantum DLT soultion, I expect this is what we will go with. The HDD thing is getting old fast.
 
Thanks for the responses guys.
I don't mind the hard drives really and its not really a cost issue. It is the the dreaded- "All my footage was on those drives and they are failed beyond recovery!!! What!!!" Now, I have redundant drives copying everything but, jeez. This is toughest thing to get used to in changing to this IT workflow head. Permanent storage.
Hopefully solutions will evolve in price and effectivness as fast as the P2 sizes and prices have. The 25gb discs are what I'm pulling for.

Russ
 
I've tried the DLT deal - the transfer times are just so slow, and there's no way to look at the footage FROM the DLT (that I know of). It's probably a VERY secure way to stash away some clips, but it's just not a readily viable solution for ME.

HDD really aren't a bad deal...they're so cheap now...almost as cheap as MiniDV tape ($5-$10 for a 12GB DV tape, or 30-50¢ per GB with an HDD).

My method is a hybrid of HDD and DL DVDs. I've got a few cheap EXT HDDs in the cabinet with MXFs readily available to me, and then I have a back up of that on Maxell DL DVDs. It's definitely cheaper than shooting and storing DVCPROHD tapes...
 
I started out by keeping copies of the P2 folders on two different drives. Then we built a RAID 5 NAS system using the FreeNAS software (freenas.org) and an 8 port High Point Rocket Raid card. I currently have five 500GB drives in it for about 1.75TB of storage. It's already full so I need to add three more drives or maybe upgrade to 750GB drives... And I still keep a copy on a drive on the shelf because I am paranoid.

Transfer speeds aren't to bad over gigabit ethernet and I can play full res Quicktime clips no problem. But for some reason I can't read the P2 folders from the NAS into the P2 import in FCP. Maybe there is something in FCP that tells it not to import from over a network? Or maybe I should try dual gigabit. Anyone else try it? The NAS is primarily for backup/archiving but it would make it easier if you could import directly from it sometimes.
 
I have occasionally backed up smaller projects to DVD and/or external hard drives.

I've just received the new Pioneer BDR-202 (Blu-ray) burner, but I got that pretty much to burn completed project so I can view them in HD via a Samsung BD-P1200 to HDTV. I have no plans to archieve anything in Blu-ray at present as there are faster, more economical, (and rational) methods. The BDR-202, BTW, is a second generation burner capable of "4x" recording speeds . . . but 4 times a snails pace is pretty much just a speedy snail.

I've been using a Dell LTO-2 tape drive (LTO-3 has larger capacity and is faster) since late March of last year without issue. Of course you can't see what you shot but you can look at the log (providing you click the box when you run your backup program) and at least see your file dates and sizes. I normally process mine in directories that permit me to know what project they are from.

The LTO-2 tapes can be sourced for around $20-25 a pop. They are 200 gig (400 compressed) tapes . . . but you really need to think 200 as you are not going to get a lot of compression from video files.

There is, in my view, a lot to like about this solution--flexibility being paramount. What I mean is that you don't have to worry about running out of space at 4.7 gigs like a DVD or pounding your credit card for a new drive frequently if you shoot a lot of footage. My initial investment was about $700 on eBay, plus a cable, and a box of tapes . . . I already had a SCSI card in my workstation. Is is perfect? No. Is it fast? Well . . . not as fast as copy files to a hard drive--but the tapes will withstand a tumble off my desk. There are faster tape solutions and there are cheaper tape solutions . . . this one lies squarely in the middle and works well if you have a lot of date to archieve. If you move up to LTO-3 later, it will be able to read the LTO-2 tapes.

Some folks have suggested multiple copies (or mediums). 200 gigs of P2 date (or anything else, including your complete project files) can be backed up to "two" LTO-2 tapes for around $40-45 bucks.

Hey (in this sense), "Tape is the wave of the future." There is a lot of tape archive taking place in business, banking, security firms, Department of Defense, etc. Another way to look at the "now why would I want to do that?" questions is: One tape is going to store roughly equivalent to 40 single layer DVD's (and your not going to have to manually open and close the drive that many times as you feed it those pesky little plastic discs over a couple of hours during your backup).

I should point out that I have little knowledge of present day Mac product but I can state that this is a solid PC solution.
 
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Yes, the dark side of P2 is that after you copy it and erase the P2 you get nothing in your hands. Very risky.
If you have the budget, the best system is a DVCPROHD tape recorder.
As they have stellar costs, consider anything that uses TAPE. Don't trust DVDs. They don't last much. I don't know about Bluray technology and if it uses newer technologies that allow a longer lifespan.




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good thread. I've been researching this for a while and this is some goo stuff. I am about to get a tape drive myself. but people should know they are not for working with footage, just for backing up in case of emergency.
 
HDDs swapped out and stored. TO me there's no other cost-effective method of doing so. Timur's got it right on mirrored raid arrays. Double the protection.

However, I am eagerly anticipating a Blu Ray Dual Layer burner to purchase. 50gb on a Blu Ray disc sounds like a sure bet til Solid State Capacities increase and prices decrease.
 
Kholi said:
HDDs swapped out and stored. TO me there's no other cost-effective method of doing so. Timur's got it right on mirrored raid arrays. Double the protection.

However, I am eagerly anticipating a Blu Ray Dual Layer burner to purchase. 50gb on a Blu Ray disc sounds like a sure bet til Solid State Capacities increase and prices decrease.
Click to expand...

I keep triple back-ups on disk. Timur got this from me.

But tape is the real way to go for archive. Enterprise data management systems have used tape back-ups for decades now. It is the best proven way to handle back-ups.

If blu-ray disks work like existing burnable disks, they are still susceptible to the same problems. Existing disks burn into a liquid emulsion, which is susceptible to scratches.

Tapes are the only archive format proven over time. None of the other formats have been around long enough to judge whether they really last or not.
 
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