jls4
Veteran
Welcome to DVXuser tunejunkE. Glad you enjoyed it thus far. :dankk2:
The 24 Diary
- Thread starter jls4
- Start date
Welcome to DVXuser tunejunkE. Glad you enjoyed it thus far. :dankk2:
jls4
Veteran
Chapter 12: On Screen Dollars
What are On-Screen Dollars? On-Screen Dollars (OSD) is basically a principle of maximizing the look of a movie while minimizing the cost. A Viewer only sees what is “On Screen”, they don’t see what’s behind the camera. So making a movie with 5 people and making a movie with 25 can look exactly the same, if the 5 people know what the 25 collectively know. A movie that costs $500K can look like one that cost $50 Mill. What you have to do is take every dollar you have and make it show up on screen, and not put many dollars behind the screen where they don’t.
What I’ve learned in my very few years on this Earth, is that it is possible for someone to be an expert in many things. Both Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson played Pro (American) Football and Baseball. Leonardo DaVinci was an accomplished engineer and painter. It’s a personal choice not to be accomplished in many areas, but to focus on just doing one thing well. For most of Hollywood, doing one thing well is what they aim for, yet you still see Writer-Directors, Writer-Director-Producers, Actor-Producers, Actor-Directors, etc. I think Clint Eastwood is an excellent Actor/Producer/Director and several Academy Awards say that I’m right in that assumption. (Million Dollar Baby – Best Director, Best Picture 2005, Unforgiven – Best Director, Best Picture 1992)
For Indies to compete, especially Shoebox Indies, you must be multi-talented or willing to learn more than one job. This is imperative. This is not a suggestion, this is a “truth”.
You must maximize what people see. I’ve already discussed the basics of production in Chapter 3 (page 1, entry #7 if you need to refresh yourself). But what you must do now is figure out how to place these things into your movie. The first exercise is to find a movie that you like, where you think the production value is almost perfect, and in the genre that you personally would like to work in. Then once you’ve located this scene. Take a photo camera and take a picture of the TV Screen or the Computer Screen (some people can use “Print Screen” or other ways to get a shot out of a copyrighted movie stream. Everyone has their own creative ways, so do what you need to.
Now let’s go shopping. Remember from Chapter 3, we can go to Salvation Army and other thrift like stores. What we want to do is to recreate what it takes for the shot to look good. You can plan on spending $100, for this test. But most of this money will be used in your movie, so it won’t be a loss. So take the Screen Shot Image with you and try to purchase small items that you see: plants, knick knacks, etc. Remember for the pictures, you want to shoot these with your personal camera (landmarks, nature scenes) OR paint our own paintings. (You don’t need to buy a table or anything large, just use your own.) Now, borrow your wife, best friend, girlfriend, cute model up the street, or actor and place them in the scene. Use the 3 ½ point lighting basics, remember it takes 4 light sources (lights, reflectors, natural light), not 3. Three light sources for the actor but at least one more for the background. And try to match the shot in every way possible. Videotape it with neutral settings something like Truecolor . Go into Magic Bullet and do some “light” color correction. It should also be noted (I’ll try to go more into later) that you shouldn’t have to do heavy work with Magic Bullet. The more work you do with MB, the worse you actually shot the original scene. The shot should be 90% perfect out of camera. I know there will be those who disagree, but many Hollywood people in lighting can make a scene almost prefect with deep blacks and perfectly cropped whites without the need of secondary systems. See this link. If you’re doing a contrastly hard look, yes sure you’ll need more MB or post processing, but the average drama or comedy should come out almost perfect.
Now look at your shot and look back at your picture. (It might also be good to use the original source if your picture is distorted because of the weird way you “stole” it from the original DVD image.) But look at them side by side. What’s yours missing? Continue to work on it until they seem perfect. This exercise is the best way to teach you because on screen dollars is about what you see, but don’t perceive. Your brain is smart and works in both a Conscience and an Unconscious way. Think of it like this, your personality – what makes you up, is simply a “Program” running on your brain's operating system. Your Brain is doing work all the time, from digesting food, to color correcting images you see, to keeping your heart beating. You don’t “think” about these things, but your Brain is doing them. What you have to do now is tune in your personality program to your imaging interface. You have to effectively start to notice what you didn’t notice before. This ability will help you notice what you are doing wrong and help you make corrections. This exercise should be a weekend in length. Please don’t do like most Indies and make a short around this exercise. Homework is homework; don’t turn it into a Quiz. You need to pay attention to the production value without paying attention to camera angles, dialog, acting, etc. You need to eliminate the other jobs on a set by identifying what they are contributing “on screen”. If doing setups and looking at images is too much for you, then you need to rethink your desire to be a filmmaker/moviemaker because much of it is research and development, not just "Cool I shot that - and it looks like crap cause I'm broke OR It looks good cause my parents are rich." Have you ever thought about if your first big movie flops, the one with the million dollar budget that your rich Grandfather setup for you? You don't know anything - you never learned. Your dreams are over. But for those who did learn, even if it flops, they can go again. Their cost is low and they understand what it takes.
Once you master this exercise, you’ll master on screen dollars.
Positions that contribute to On-Screen Dollars: Lighting/Gaffer, Cinematography, Production Design, Sets, Dolly/Crane/Jib Grips, Makeup/Hair, Costume/Wardrobe
Positions that don’t contribute: Producers, Interns, Casting, Stunts (Small), Electrical, Transportation, Script Supervisor, Continuity, etc
Before I end, audio is technically part of the On-Screen Dollars world, because by On-screen we actually mean the experience of Visual and Audio. To test the Audio to perfection, use the same scenario. Go to your favorite movie, pick a whole scene or at least 30 seconds. Get your audio equipment and record actors saying the same lines in the same basic environments. Take the audio into the computer and compare it. What’s wrong? Why does it sound different? Try to move the mic closer to the actors, move it up and down. What you may have missed are Sound Blankets. Which have a million and one uses, but their primary use is to be placed against/on hard surfaces to diffuse echo and capture sound from vibrating back towards the microphone. You can use them on the floor, on C-stands against the walls, etc. What you want to do is create an environment very close to a Recoding Studio. You’ve seen them in music videos and movies. Music Studios have what looks like egg crates stuck to the walls and they always have carpet on the floor. You want to get rid of as much echo as possible without starting a fire (hot lights and cloth don’t get along) and without them being seen. Practicing in a Kitchen is a great place to practice your audio. You’ll also get the chance to check out background sounds, amplifications, etc. If you still can't get the right sound, you may need to rent some pro gear, if you didn't take my advice and buy some good stuff. Many articles online (you'll have to find them, I never bookmarked cause I knew the info) talk about how there IS a difference between a $2K mic, a $1K mic, and a $400 mic. Also recording (not in camera) is also important with limiters, low pass filters, etc. 24Bit vs 16Bit. Again I record with a $1K+ mic to a $3,500 audio system at 24Bit/96Khz remembering that most movies are enjoyed at 16Bit/48Khz (I believe). It's best to have more than what you need and mix down. I mean if you make a mistake in your shot would you rather have 1080p or 1150p, doesn't it make since to have a little more frequency if you need it?
But these exercises should help you maximize what people see and hear. That’s all we care about. It doesn’t matter what people don’t see. Don’t focus on that. You don’t need a zillion Assoc Producers, Line Producers, etc. One to two producers is more than enough for small projects. As you grow into a Big Time/Big Money Indie. You should know and understand why everyone is on set, what their purpose is and why they are a benefit. Having many people on set just walking around saying “I’m this or that” is not helpful and is not cost-effective. For the most part a crew of 7 can make a $500K movie without too much of a problem.
Also to be noted, as you deal with named actors, you will need Off-Screen people to take care of them and provide for their needs, especially if they are used to big budgets and having their own trailer etc, basically being catered to.
What are On-Screen Dollars? On-Screen Dollars (OSD) is basically a principle of maximizing the look of a movie while minimizing the cost. A Viewer only sees what is “On Screen”, they don’t see what’s behind the camera. So making a movie with 5 people and making a movie with 25 can look exactly the same, if the 5 people know what the 25 collectively know. A movie that costs $500K can look like one that cost $50 Mill. What you have to do is take every dollar you have and make it show up on screen, and not put many dollars behind the screen where they don’t.
What I’ve learned in my very few years on this Earth, is that it is possible for someone to be an expert in many things. Both Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson played Pro (American) Football and Baseball. Leonardo DaVinci was an accomplished engineer and painter. It’s a personal choice not to be accomplished in many areas, but to focus on just doing one thing well. For most of Hollywood, doing one thing well is what they aim for, yet you still see Writer-Directors, Writer-Director-Producers, Actor-Producers, Actor-Directors, etc. I think Clint Eastwood is an excellent Actor/Producer/Director and several Academy Awards say that I’m right in that assumption. (Million Dollar Baby – Best Director, Best Picture 2005, Unforgiven – Best Director, Best Picture 1992)
For Indies to compete, especially Shoebox Indies, you must be multi-talented or willing to learn more than one job. This is imperative. This is not a suggestion, this is a “truth”.
You must maximize what people see. I’ve already discussed the basics of production in Chapter 3 (page 1, entry #7 if you need to refresh yourself). But what you must do now is figure out how to place these things into your movie. The first exercise is to find a movie that you like, where you think the production value is almost perfect, and in the genre that you personally would like to work in. Then once you’ve located this scene. Take a photo camera and take a picture of the TV Screen or the Computer Screen (some people can use “Print Screen” or other ways to get a shot out of a copyrighted movie stream. Everyone has their own creative ways, so do what you need to.
Now let’s go shopping. Remember from Chapter 3, we can go to Salvation Army and other thrift like stores. What we want to do is to recreate what it takes for the shot to look good. You can plan on spending $100, for this test. But most of this money will be used in your movie, so it won’t be a loss. So take the Screen Shot Image with you and try to purchase small items that you see: plants, knick knacks, etc. Remember for the pictures, you want to shoot these with your personal camera (landmarks, nature scenes) OR paint our own paintings. (You don’t need to buy a table or anything large, just use your own.) Now, borrow your wife, best friend, girlfriend, cute model up the street, or actor and place them in the scene. Use the 3 ½ point lighting basics, remember it takes 4 light sources (lights, reflectors, natural light), not 3. Three light sources for the actor but at least one more for the background. And try to match the shot in every way possible. Videotape it with neutral settings something like Truecolor . Go into Magic Bullet and do some “light” color correction. It should also be noted (I’ll try to go more into later) that you shouldn’t have to do heavy work with Magic Bullet. The more work you do with MB, the worse you actually shot the original scene. The shot should be 90% perfect out of camera. I know there will be those who disagree, but many Hollywood people in lighting can make a scene almost prefect with deep blacks and perfectly cropped whites without the need of secondary systems. See this link. If you’re doing a contrastly hard look, yes sure you’ll need more MB or post processing, but the average drama or comedy should come out almost perfect.
Now look at your shot and look back at your picture. (It might also be good to use the original source if your picture is distorted because of the weird way you “stole” it from the original DVD image.) But look at them side by side. What’s yours missing? Continue to work on it until they seem perfect. This exercise is the best way to teach you because on screen dollars is about what you see, but don’t perceive. Your brain is smart and works in both a Conscience and an Unconscious way. Think of it like this, your personality – what makes you up, is simply a “Program” running on your brain's operating system. Your Brain is doing work all the time, from digesting food, to color correcting images you see, to keeping your heart beating. You don’t “think” about these things, but your Brain is doing them. What you have to do now is tune in your personality program to your imaging interface. You have to effectively start to notice what you didn’t notice before. This ability will help you notice what you are doing wrong and help you make corrections. This exercise should be a weekend in length. Please don’t do like most Indies and make a short around this exercise. Homework is homework; don’t turn it into a Quiz. You need to pay attention to the production value without paying attention to camera angles, dialog, acting, etc. You need to eliminate the other jobs on a set by identifying what they are contributing “on screen”. If doing setups and looking at images is too much for you, then you need to rethink your desire to be a filmmaker/moviemaker because much of it is research and development, not just "Cool I shot that - and it looks like crap cause I'm broke OR It looks good cause my parents are rich." Have you ever thought about if your first big movie flops, the one with the million dollar budget that your rich Grandfather setup for you? You don't know anything - you never learned. Your dreams are over. But for those who did learn, even if it flops, they can go again. Their cost is low and they understand what it takes.
Once you master this exercise, you’ll master on screen dollars.
Positions that contribute to On-Screen Dollars: Lighting/Gaffer, Cinematography, Production Design, Sets, Dolly/Crane/Jib Grips, Makeup/Hair, Costume/Wardrobe
Positions that don’t contribute: Producers, Interns, Casting, Stunts (Small), Electrical, Transportation, Script Supervisor, Continuity, etc
Before I end, audio is technically part of the On-Screen Dollars world, because by On-screen we actually mean the experience of Visual and Audio. To test the Audio to perfection, use the same scenario. Go to your favorite movie, pick a whole scene or at least 30 seconds. Get your audio equipment and record actors saying the same lines in the same basic environments. Take the audio into the computer and compare it. What’s wrong? Why does it sound different? Try to move the mic closer to the actors, move it up and down. What you may have missed are Sound Blankets. Which have a million and one uses, but their primary use is to be placed against/on hard surfaces to diffuse echo and capture sound from vibrating back towards the microphone. You can use them on the floor, on C-stands against the walls, etc. What you want to do is create an environment very close to a Recoding Studio. You’ve seen them in music videos and movies. Music Studios have what looks like egg crates stuck to the walls and they always have carpet on the floor. You want to get rid of as much echo as possible without starting a fire (hot lights and cloth don’t get along) and without them being seen. Practicing in a Kitchen is a great place to practice your audio. You’ll also get the chance to check out background sounds, amplifications, etc. If you still can't get the right sound, you may need to rent some pro gear, if you didn't take my advice and buy some good stuff. Many articles online (you'll have to find them, I never bookmarked cause I knew the info) talk about how there IS a difference between a $2K mic, a $1K mic, and a $400 mic. Also recording (not in camera) is also important with limiters, low pass filters, etc. 24Bit vs 16Bit. Again I record with a $1K+ mic to a $3,500 audio system at 24Bit/96Khz remembering that most movies are enjoyed at 16Bit/48Khz (I believe). It's best to have more than what you need and mix down. I mean if you make a mistake in your shot would you rather have 1080p or 1150p, doesn't it make since to have a little more frequency if you need it?
But these exercises should help you maximize what people see and hear. That’s all we care about. It doesn’t matter what people don’t see. Don’t focus on that. You don’t need a zillion Assoc Producers, Line Producers, etc. One to two producers is more than enough for small projects. As you grow into a Big Time/Big Money Indie. You should know and understand why everyone is on set, what their purpose is and why they are a benefit. Having many people on set just walking around saying “I’m this or that” is not helpful and is not cost-effective. For the most part a crew of 7 can make a $500K movie without too much of a problem.
Also to be noted, as you deal with named actors, you will need Off-Screen people to take care of them and provide for their needs, especially if they are used to big budgets and having their own trailer etc, basically being catered to.
Last edited:
jls4
Veteran
Chapter 13: Filmmaker or Videographer : Time To Pick A Side
After I finished up my second feature (first feature I distributed), I started shooting wedding videos to pay back what I thought at the time was a lot of money/debt $14,000. Within 5 months time, I became not only good at shooting weddings, but very aggressive at trying to find new brides/clients in order to continue to shoot more. Before I knew it, I had invested in photography equipment and was now doing both Photo and Video to maximize profits. Within a three year time, I had grown a side “pay back” gig into my full time profession and even won 2 awards for photography and customer service. Last year I came to an astonishing realization – I was no longer a filmmaker, I was a videographer/photographer. How in the world did this happen? How did I loose focus? And D*mn, I just lost three years of my life in something I didn’t even care about.
Now this is my story, everyone’s is different. But the point is the same. The Videography Profession is NOT the same as the Motion Picture Profession. Both are lucrative (when done correctly), both deal with imagery, lighting, audio – but they are handled quite differently. Videographers tend to have more head room in shots, when I’ve worked for people, cutting off the top of the head was a no-no. Lighting was usually minimal if at all, and a simple cheap lav microphone or small $200 handheld mic piped into the camera was good enough. Wow what a difference. It makes since though, since videography is about quick turn around, movie making is about perfection.
I also started to notice differences in movies and made “guesstimates” on what was going on. I’d see “videographers” stand in for “cinematographers” and the shots weren’t that good with overly lit scenes and no control of lighting. I also noticed those who light for TV and those who light for movies, light differently. TV lighting is all constant – 3 to 4 cameras capture those on screen and edit together. The whole scene is possible to be shot at one time – in a continuous feed. Movie lighting is set for who is on screen. So 3 people, means at least 4 lighting setups: 1 – Wide, 3 Medium/Close. So when TV people lit a movie or short, the lighting sucked. They thought it looked good, but it was no where near the perfection of the average Hollywood movie.
The problem with all of this, is that it’s too easy to go into one mode versus the other. I know what you’re thinking – “in the last chapter you said we could do more than one thing well.” And that’s true, but if you notice when people do these type of things, they tend to be different enough to bring up a different state of mind. For instance Writing and Directing are two different animals, same goes for Acting and Producing or Painting and Engineering. Videography and Cinematography are so closely related that it’s easy to get lazy in one and overactive in another. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I just believe that you need to define yourself as one and start moving in that direction.
You need to make up in your mind who you are and use that definition to propel you forward. Many times we as people don’t know who we are. We let other people tell us, and many times they are wrong. Take an out of work actor, we’ll make up somebody call them Tom Pitt. Mr. Pitt has been in several high budget movies and made an average of $10 Million for each film. In 2003, he ran into 5 bad movies that convinced Hollywood that he was washed up. So he went from making 4 movies a year to 1 and by 2008 he didn’t have anything lined up. His agents told him to loose weight, get plastic surgery, and dye his graying hair. But nothing worked, he still was at home and now all of his money (none of it invested, all spent on stupid things like cars and houses) was gone and he was loosing everything. So Entertainment Tonight’s Host “Zee Huntington” says he’s washed up and now Tom believes it.
Tom doesn’t know who he is. Internally his spirit is weak and he needs to recognize he’s Tom Pitt. He can go to any independent filmmaker and write his own ticket. He can produce his own films and star in them, he can use his influence to make money in appearances. Like Mufasa told Simba “Remember Who You Are.” – The Lion King.
You need to know as an Indie, are you a Videographer or are you a Filmmaker. These will influence everything from what you work on, to what you buy, to what articles you read. It will advance you in the direction that you want to go. Sooner or later a fork will arrive in the moving image road and you’ll have to make a choice. You can’t continue to go in both directions. Don’t be like I was and walk down the Videography path and realize too late what I’ve done, then spend another year just getting back to the Filmmaking path. But if you don’t decide – decide deep down in your gut so deep and strong that no one – not your parents, not your girlfriend, not your wife – no one can convince you otherwise – you will be swayed off the path. It’s easy to do. You must stay vigilant and choose what you are: Filmmaker or Videographer.
After I finished up my second feature (first feature I distributed), I started shooting wedding videos to pay back what I thought at the time was a lot of money/debt $14,000. Within 5 months time, I became not only good at shooting weddings, but very aggressive at trying to find new brides/clients in order to continue to shoot more. Before I knew it, I had invested in photography equipment and was now doing both Photo and Video to maximize profits. Within a three year time, I had grown a side “pay back” gig into my full time profession and even won 2 awards for photography and customer service. Last year I came to an astonishing realization – I was no longer a filmmaker, I was a videographer/photographer. How in the world did this happen? How did I loose focus? And D*mn, I just lost three years of my life in something I didn’t even care about.
Now this is my story, everyone’s is different. But the point is the same. The Videography Profession is NOT the same as the Motion Picture Profession. Both are lucrative (when done correctly), both deal with imagery, lighting, audio – but they are handled quite differently. Videographers tend to have more head room in shots, when I’ve worked for people, cutting off the top of the head was a no-no. Lighting was usually minimal if at all, and a simple cheap lav microphone or small $200 handheld mic piped into the camera was good enough. Wow what a difference. It makes since though, since videography is about quick turn around, movie making is about perfection.
I also started to notice differences in movies and made “guesstimates” on what was going on. I’d see “videographers” stand in for “cinematographers” and the shots weren’t that good with overly lit scenes and no control of lighting. I also noticed those who light for TV and those who light for movies, light differently. TV lighting is all constant – 3 to 4 cameras capture those on screen and edit together. The whole scene is possible to be shot at one time – in a continuous feed. Movie lighting is set for who is on screen. So 3 people, means at least 4 lighting setups: 1 – Wide, 3 Medium/Close. So when TV people lit a movie or short, the lighting sucked. They thought it looked good, but it was no where near the perfection of the average Hollywood movie.
The problem with all of this, is that it’s too easy to go into one mode versus the other. I know what you’re thinking – “in the last chapter you said we could do more than one thing well.” And that’s true, but if you notice when people do these type of things, they tend to be different enough to bring up a different state of mind. For instance Writing and Directing are two different animals, same goes for Acting and Producing or Painting and Engineering. Videography and Cinematography are so closely related that it’s easy to get lazy in one and overactive in another. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I just believe that you need to define yourself as one and start moving in that direction.
You need to make up in your mind who you are and use that definition to propel you forward. Many times we as people don’t know who we are. We let other people tell us, and many times they are wrong. Take an out of work actor, we’ll make up somebody call them Tom Pitt. Mr. Pitt has been in several high budget movies and made an average of $10 Million for each film. In 2003, he ran into 5 bad movies that convinced Hollywood that he was washed up. So he went from making 4 movies a year to 1 and by 2008 he didn’t have anything lined up. His agents told him to loose weight, get plastic surgery, and dye his graying hair. But nothing worked, he still was at home and now all of his money (none of it invested, all spent on stupid things like cars and houses) was gone and he was loosing everything. So Entertainment Tonight’s Host “Zee Huntington” says he’s washed up and now Tom believes it.
Tom doesn’t know who he is. Internally his spirit is weak and he needs to recognize he’s Tom Pitt. He can go to any independent filmmaker and write his own ticket. He can produce his own films and star in them, he can use his influence to make money in appearances. Like Mufasa told Simba “Remember Who You Are.” – The Lion King.
You need to know as an Indie, are you a Videographer or are you a Filmmaker. These will influence everything from what you work on, to what you buy, to what articles you read. It will advance you in the direction that you want to go. Sooner or later a fork will arrive in the moving image road and you’ll have to make a choice. You can’t continue to go in both directions. Don’t be like I was and walk down the Videography path and realize too late what I’ve done, then spend another year just getting back to the Filmmaking path. But if you don’t decide – decide deep down in your gut so deep and strong that no one – not your parents, not your girlfriend, not your wife – no one can convince you otherwise – you will be swayed off the path. It’s easy to do. You must stay vigilant and choose what you are: Filmmaker or Videographer.
Last edited:
mentatDUKE
Veteran
Dropping science yet again... Thanks jls. You're a national treasure.
jls4
Veteran
Thanks Guys! Hey TunejunkE I can send you my paypal account if you want to make a donation! hahaha
Actually at one time, I was hoping a "videographer" in Atlanta would like what I was saying and contact me about making a video series. They could put the video together and with "real world" examples I could show exactly what I'm talking about. Like they say a picture equals a thousand words. I figured we could go in 50/50. But I would hope the person was good in videography as well as editing and after effects for titles and small animations that would be needed. I would provide scripts, concepts, and try to get actors to go through the scenes.
So if somebody thinks this would work and wants to put in the time. Give me a ring!
Jls4,
I read in another thread about you seeking funding for a few projets, I'd think if you can show a few potential investors what you have written here it will go a long way! This is good stuff and if I had the money I'd trust you with it after reading this.
Thanks for taking the time to do this!
I read in another thread about you seeking funding for a few projets, I'd think if you can show a few potential investors what you have written here it will go a long way! This is good stuff and if I had the money I'd trust you with it after reading this.
Thanks for taking the time to do this!
jls4
Veteran
Oh wow. Thanks ChipG. I've only tried to help others through what I've learned over the years. But maybe I should do that? A DVX Fundraiser.
Jls4,
I've enjoyed this thread. I bought all of the equipment to make my film (unfortunately I'm selling it to help pay off the bills). I put up over $60,000 in debt (not including cash I put in) to make my film but I really believe it was worth it (even if the film never sells). I had something to 'say' and my film helped me say it. Even if I'm still waiting tables 10 years from now, I'll always know that I tried my best and I'll have no regrets (of course that's not the destiny I hope for...)
I know a lot of people would never take on that much debt (especially while raising a family) to make their film (I'm just one of those guys who was never afraid to jump at a risk) and I can't say I'd recommend it (unless you like a lot of sleepless nights) but for me that was the only way I could truly make the film I wanted to make. I would say to others out there that if you have a solid script, do whatever you can to make a good movie.
Todd
btw, I was doing wedding videos (was very good at it but I've found people in my area didn't really want to pay much for a video) when the idea of making a film first came about.
I've enjoyed this thread. I bought all of the equipment to make my film (unfortunately I'm selling it to help pay off the bills). I put up over $60,000 in debt (not including cash I put in) to make my film but I really believe it was worth it (even if the film never sells). I had something to 'say' and my film helped me say it. Even if I'm still waiting tables 10 years from now, I'll always know that I tried my best and I'll have no regrets (of course that's not the destiny I hope for...)
I know a lot of people would never take on that much debt (especially while raising a family) to make their film (I'm just one of those guys who was never afraid to jump at a risk) and I can't say I'd recommend it (unless you like a lot of sleepless nights) but for me that was the only way I could truly make the film I wanted to make. I would say to others out there that if you have a solid script, do whatever you can to make a good movie.
Todd
btw, I was doing wedding videos (was very good at it but I've found people in my area didn't really want to pay much for a video) when the idea of making a film first came about.
jls4
Veteran
Wow Tood. Thanks. I've seen your trailer and like I already told you, I think you're definately on the right road. I wish I could have put $60K in mine, but that's life. Once I pay back a few bills, I guess I could.
Right now I'm all about selling this one, then helping a few other people, and getting back to some of my own projects - hopefully with a much larger group of people to work with.
Wow Tood. Thanks. I've seen your trailer and like I already told you, I think you're definately on the right road. I wish I could have put $60K in mine, but that's life. Once I pay back a few bills, I guess I could.
Right now I'm all about selling this one, then helping a few other people, and getting back to some of my own projects - hopefully with a much larger group of people to work with.
About the money... when I first started this film I was relatively debt free (minus money I still owed from my wedding video equipment) and then I started to buy the new equipment and it kind of snowballed. Now granted I didn't buy the most expensive stuff, just the stuff I knew I could use to help the way I wanted to tell the story (but that 'stuff' always led to more 'stuff' :huh
. Like I said, running up 60 g's wasn't my original plan, but once I was in, there was no turning back.I hope the best for your current film.
Todd
jls4
Veteran
About the money... when I first started this film I was relatively debt free (minus money I still owed from my wedding video equipment) and then I started to buy the new equipment and it kind of snowballed. Now granted I didn't buy the most expensive stuff, just the stuff I knew I could use to help the way I wanted to tell the story (but that 'stuff' always led to more 'stuff' :huh
I hope the best for your current film.
Todd
You too. I'm already looking to rent yours from Blockbuster.
jls4
Veteran
Giving the "24 Diary" a quick aside: We just booked our first "celebrity" actress. A young lady who is on a TV show currently. The TV show is in its first season. She also has been in two major motion pictures with small speaking roles. This is great experience for me and something I hope we can all learn from. I have one other person I need to finish negotiations with and I'll write up something concerning "Celebrities through the Backdoor".
jls4
Veteran
Long weekend. Saturday photographed a Baseball Player's Wedding! 11 Hours and 2500 pictures. A few celebrities showed up and he got a little mad at me for slamming the doors of his $100+K BMW. (He said shutting the doors was slamming them. Evidently he has some kind of mechanism like a little robot in the door. That when the door gets close to the frame, it closes itself. It was a little weird to me, but hey money pays for convieniences. )
Sunday it was back to the movie. We shot with our first Celebrity. I've worked with several Celebs in the past, usually under them or watching them, or getting them water. :-Laugh(DBG)-1 It was different directing him though, and I didn't know if the scene was a little uncomfortable for him. The scene is kinda of a funny take on the whole "Down Low" concept that has been moving though the African-American community. There was no gay touching or kissing, just talk. But the funny side of it, is that the Character(Celeb) would say a very homosexual type of statement then recall it saying, "But I'm not gay." So I hope I made him comfortable enough. Overall everything came out well. I just wish we had more time. The two scenes we shot were both cut short because of time. Some of the scenes could have been a little better with about an hour more. I got there a little late at 2:20 (Call time 2PM). Audio didn't get there until 3:20 and we didn't start shooting til 4:20. Which is not like us at all, but I guess it's been 7 months since we shot last. What can I expect. We're rusty. We did finish almost on time at 9:20 though. (lots of 20s)
I have one more Celeb to work with and we plan on shooting her stuff first week of December. 4 scenes 8+ hours of shooting. It'll be a long day. :huh: but I'm sure it'll give me more experience to write about and hopefully help everyone out with. :dankk2:
)Sunday it was back to the movie. We shot with our first Celebrity. I've worked with several Celebs in the past, usually under them or watching them, or getting them water. :-Laugh(DBG)-1 It was different directing him though, and I didn't know if the scene was a little uncomfortable for him. The scene is kinda of a funny take on the whole "Down Low" concept that has been moving though the African-American community. There was no gay touching or kissing, just talk. But the funny side of it, is that the Character(Celeb) would say a very homosexual type of statement then recall it saying, "But I'm not gay." So I hope I made him comfortable enough. Overall everything came out well. I just wish we had more time. The two scenes we shot were both cut short because of time. Some of the scenes could have been a little better with about an hour more. I got there a little late at 2:20 (Call time 2PM). Audio didn't get there until 3:20 and we didn't start shooting til 4:20. Which is not like us at all, but I guess it's been 7 months since we shot last. What can I expect. We're rusty. We did finish almost on time at 9:20 though. (lots of 20s
)I have one more Celeb to work with and we plan on shooting her stuff first week of December. 4 scenes 8+ hours of shooting. It'll be a long day. :huh: but I'm sure it'll give me more experience to write about and hopefully help everyone out with. :dankk2:
jls4
Veteran
Chapter 14 : Producing the Impossible Dream
I just got out of a conversation on another message board concerning the state of movie in Atlanta and the need for motion picture “want-to-bes” to link up with producer “want-to-bes”. The person responding to me, showed a need that they wanted to link up with the right producer “want-to-be”. How can a person know that they are linking themselves with the right person? I mean this is the issue that we all face and the fundamental problem that exists in the independent world.
Indie’s by their own name are Independent bodies floating around, trying to find a solution to feature film making. I think it was Zak of Sabi Pictures who has statements on his website that lead towards a concept of “Inter-dependent Cinema” which is a much better concept and the way that Indies or “Dependies” needs to start strongly considering. The United States is by far one of the strongest countries in the world, partially because of its size and diversity. Each state is many times as large, if not larger than many countries. Each state has its own government and belief systems, yet the bonding of these “states” makes it easier to perform larger tasks, like keeping the states protected, industry viable and enough resources that the people survive. Now Europe and Africa in ways are combing forces to become larger “virtual countries”. The concept is a pencil can be easily broken, but 50+ pencils put together is hard to break.
The term “Independent” probably came from the Hollywood system to regard a person who was “on their own” because in their mindset being outside of the Hollywood mainstream. So you were Independent of the Hollywood System.
Where am I going with all of this? What does this have anything to do with producing? A Producer for an Interdependent Movie is a different animal than in the Hollywood World. A producer at a shoebox level has to consider all the factors of creating a movie and come up with logical solutions to “fix” any problems that occur based on lack of resources. He/she must work with the director to not only get what the project needs, but also in constant look out for ways to improve the project.
Currently industry movies can cost upwards of 40 Million Dollars. And when someone is trying to “produce” a movie at .1% of that amount (i.e. $40,000) then they have to be ready to make the impossible possible and they can’t rely on money to “fix” their problems because there is little to none. So now solutions have to come into play. This is what much of the 24 Diary is about.
Becoming that “producer” is a hard and complex task, one that isn’t made for every person. A producer needs to be first of all confident and have a strategic plan. They must have several goals in mind, one being to complete the project no matter what, to keep budgets down, and to keep people motivated – since most people on this level are lucky to even get gas money. Every “Indie” / “Dependie” will walk their own path, no ones path is exactly the same, however everyone will face certain definite realities:
In fact, in the “Voices” shoot there were so many problems the average person would have given up. I spent at least 10 hours on set alone working directly with actors with no crew. Sometimes we had 1 crew member, sometimes 2, sometimes 3. But no matter what, the show had to keep pushing on. We’ve since then added 8 new scenes, reworked 5 scenes and even reshot 6 scenes. Every new or changed scene had to be evaluated – how does it fit into the plot, does it make since, will it throw the audience for a loop. These are the producer’s problems. A producer doesn’t hit a brick wall, they figure out a way to guide their people around it.
Tip: There is always a solution. Don’t panic. Stop, Breathe, Think.
You need to figure out ways to solve your problems – this is how you will produce the impossible. This is what will set you apart from your peers and help you complete a $25,000 movie when 90% of the people out there can’t do it.
I just got out of a conversation on another message board concerning the state of movie in Atlanta and the need for motion picture “want-to-bes” to link up with producer “want-to-bes”. The person responding to me, showed a need that they wanted to link up with the right producer “want-to-be”. How can a person know that they are linking themselves with the right person? I mean this is the issue that we all face and the fundamental problem that exists in the independent world.
Indie’s by their own name are Independent bodies floating around, trying to find a solution to feature film making. I think it was Zak of Sabi Pictures who has statements on his website that lead towards a concept of “Inter-dependent Cinema” which is a much better concept and the way that Indies or “Dependies” needs to start strongly considering. The United States is by far one of the strongest countries in the world, partially because of its size and diversity. Each state is many times as large, if not larger than many countries. Each state has its own government and belief systems, yet the bonding of these “states” makes it easier to perform larger tasks, like keeping the states protected, industry viable and enough resources that the people survive. Now Europe and Africa in ways are combing forces to become larger “virtual countries”. The concept is a pencil can be easily broken, but 50+ pencils put together is hard to break.
The term “Independent” probably came from the Hollywood system to regard a person who was “on their own” because in their mindset being outside of the Hollywood mainstream. So you were Independent of the Hollywood System.
Where am I going with all of this? What does this have anything to do with producing? A Producer for an Interdependent Movie is a different animal than in the Hollywood World. A producer at a shoebox level has to consider all the factors of creating a movie and come up with logical solutions to “fix” any problems that occur based on lack of resources. He/she must work with the director to not only get what the project needs, but also in constant look out for ways to improve the project.
Currently industry movies can cost upwards of 40 Million Dollars. And when someone is trying to “produce” a movie at .1% of that amount (i.e. $40,000) then they have to be ready to make the impossible possible and they can’t rely on money to “fix” their problems because there is little to none. So now solutions have to come into play. This is what much of the 24 Diary is about.
Becoming that “producer” is a hard and complex task, one that isn’t made for every person. A producer needs to be first of all confident and have a strategic plan. They must have several goals in mind, one being to complete the project no matter what, to keep budgets down, and to keep people motivated – since most people on this level are lucky to even get gas money. Every “Indie” / “Dependie” will walk their own path, no ones path is exactly the same, however everyone will face certain definite realities:
- Capital / Money / Cash / Duckets / Dividens / Green
- Finding good qualified Actors / Writers / Directors / Crew Members
- Obtaining the best equipment through Begging, Borrowing, Renting, Buying, Stealing ;-)
- Keeping the project moving
In fact, in the “Voices” shoot there were so many problems the average person would have given up. I spent at least 10 hours on set alone working directly with actors with no crew. Sometimes we had 1 crew member, sometimes 2, sometimes 3. But no matter what, the show had to keep pushing on. We’ve since then added 8 new scenes, reworked 5 scenes and even reshot 6 scenes. Every new or changed scene had to be evaluated – how does it fit into the plot, does it make since, will it throw the audience for a loop. These are the producer’s problems. A producer doesn’t hit a brick wall, they figure out a way to guide their people around it.
Tip: There is always a solution. Don’t panic. Stop, Breathe, Think.
You need to figure out ways to solve your problems – this is how you will produce the impossible. This is what will set you apart from your peers and help you complete a $25,000 movie when 90% of the people out there can’t do it.
jls4
Veteran
Chapter 15 : Backdoor Celebrities
Last weekend I finished the last of a few extra scenes that we shot for our feature “Voices”. We added two more notable faces to the movie because it’s important to have as much going for you as you make your case for distributors. And by making your case, I simply mean to have more reasons a distributor should pick up your movie, than reasons they shouldn’t. I mean if you had a good script, great production value and Tom Cruise in your movie a distributor would be idiotic not to give you a great deal.
As many of you know there’s also the concept of having small or long “Cameos” in your movie, which many people utilize to help sell their film. If you were smart in your writing, you would’ve created several characters that show up maybe in 4 to 10 scenes. These scenes can then be shot back to back in your production schedule. Many, not all, actors come with a day rate. This day rate can be used to your advantage. So say you have 9 scenes with this “actor”. You simply put all those scenes in locations that are close to each other, or that you can get to and setup fairly quickly. (It might even be smart to rent equipment and have all the scenes per day set up before you get to the set so you can shoot back to back with no setup.) Now if the actor’s day rate is say $1000, then for $3000 you can have a famous face in 9 scenes throughout your movie – that is if you can shoot 3 scenes per day.
In most of my movies, I’ve noticed I have about 70 Scenes (INT, EXT, etc). Some scenes run back to back and can be shot in one long pass, i.e. the scene is broken into 2 short 90 second pieces, but the set and characters don’t change. We leave the scene and come back really to keep the flow of the movie. Out of my 70 scenes, 45 are real scenes lasting approx 90 to 150 seconds. The other scenes tend to last 60 seconds or less. If your “celeb actor” is involved in the 90 to 150 second scenes and you shoot 9 of them, then you can have an average of 810 to 1350 seconds (13.5 to 22.5 min). For a 90 minute movie, that’s a good chunk of time. If you can get two named actors, then you can possibly double the length. Having faces in 45 minutes of your movie, every other minute, will definitely get you some kudos from distributors trying to figure out how to market your movie.
This method takes the pressure of the lead character, who may have to visit many locations to tell the story. Your lead is now a cheaper, but experienced, actor who can help to carry the movie. This way you don’t bore your audience with the same locations, yet you open doors for your movie. This method has been used over and over throughout Hollywood history.
Now in reality your actors may cost well over $1000 a day. I talked to several actors for “Voices” and actor’s agents. Without giving out exact numbers, they ranged from $1000 to $3500 a day, and this was for people who weren’t necessarily house hold names. I mean many of them had recognizable faces, one had a TV show, another was a 1990s rapper. In “A Lonely Place for Dying” one of the actors reportedly cost a whopping $18,000 a day! But when you really take a strong look at it, it’s really not that bad.
If you are on your second or third movie of the plan, depending on how much money you’ve raised, setting aside $10K for named actors may not be that bad of an idea. Remember what you have to do is create a situation where a distributor would be crazy to pass up on your movie.
All this brings us to the “backdoor” element. If you’ve been working the 24 Diary properly you’ve spent time on other people’s sets learning as much as possible. Take this time and network. You’d be surprised who someone else knows. The two actors I got were both through a connection – someone I met because I did work for them. What if I had to go through an agent? That’s an automatic 10% more and many times the agent may even over inflate the price, especially on a small production that most of them probably don’t even consider worth their time.
People know people, that’s the 100% bottom line. As a producer you need to keep as many doors open as possible to yourself, while you make your argument to the distribution companies on why your movie is better than anyone else’s.
Tip: Try and get celeb actors through friends and family before going to agents
Tip: Look for people who are up and coming, have notable faces, and have been in worth wile projects.
With every movie you have to keep pushing yourself along. Very few are going to directly help you. Stay motivated and sharp, keep studying don’t stop!
Last weekend I finished the last of a few extra scenes that we shot for our feature “Voices”. We added two more notable faces to the movie because it’s important to have as much going for you as you make your case for distributors. And by making your case, I simply mean to have more reasons a distributor should pick up your movie, than reasons they shouldn’t. I mean if you had a good script, great production value and Tom Cruise in your movie a distributor would be idiotic not to give you a great deal.
As many of you know there’s also the concept of having small or long “Cameos” in your movie, which many people utilize to help sell their film. If you were smart in your writing, you would’ve created several characters that show up maybe in 4 to 10 scenes. These scenes can then be shot back to back in your production schedule. Many, not all, actors come with a day rate. This day rate can be used to your advantage. So say you have 9 scenes with this “actor”. You simply put all those scenes in locations that are close to each other, or that you can get to and setup fairly quickly. (It might even be smart to rent equipment and have all the scenes per day set up before you get to the set so you can shoot back to back with no setup.) Now if the actor’s day rate is say $1000, then for $3000 you can have a famous face in 9 scenes throughout your movie – that is if you can shoot 3 scenes per day.
In most of my movies, I’ve noticed I have about 70 Scenes (INT, EXT, etc). Some scenes run back to back and can be shot in one long pass, i.e. the scene is broken into 2 short 90 second pieces, but the set and characters don’t change. We leave the scene and come back really to keep the flow of the movie. Out of my 70 scenes, 45 are real scenes lasting approx 90 to 150 seconds. The other scenes tend to last 60 seconds or less. If your “celeb actor” is involved in the 90 to 150 second scenes and you shoot 9 of them, then you can have an average of 810 to 1350 seconds (13.5 to 22.5 min). For a 90 minute movie, that’s a good chunk of time. If you can get two named actors, then you can possibly double the length. Having faces in 45 minutes of your movie, every other minute, will definitely get you some kudos from distributors trying to figure out how to market your movie.
This method takes the pressure of the lead character, who may have to visit many locations to tell the story. Your lead is now a cheaper, but experienced, actor who can help to carry the movie. This way you don’t bore your audience with the same locations, yet you open doors for your movie. This method has been used over and over throughout Hollywood history.
Now in reality your actors may cost well over $1000 a day. I talked to several actors for “Voices” and actor’s agents. Without giving out exact numbers, they ranged from $1000 to $3500 a day, and this was for people who weren’t necessarily house hold names. I mean many of them had recognizable faces, one had a TV show, another was a 1990s rapper. In “A Lonely Place for Dying” one of the actors reportedly cost a whopping $18,000 a day! But when you really take a strong look at it, it’s really not that bad.
If you are on your second or third movie of the plan, depending on how much money you’ve raised, setting aside $10K for named actors may not be that bad of an idea. Remember what you have to do is create a situation where a distributor would be crazy to pass up on your movie.
All this brings us to the “backdoor” element. If you’ve been working the 24 Diary properly you’ve spent time on other people’s sets learning as much as possible. Take this time and network. You’d be surprised who someone else knows. The two actors I got were both through a connection – someone I met because I did work for them. What if I had to go through an agent? That’s an automatic 10% more and many times the agent may even over inflate the price, especially on a small production that most of them probably don’t even consider worth their time.
People know people, that’s the 100% bottom line. As a producer you need to keep as many doors open as possible to yourself, while you make your argument to the distribution companies on why your movie is better than anyone else’s.
Tip: Try and get celeb actors through friends and family before going to agents
Tip: Look for people who are up and coming, have notable faces, and have been in worth wile projects.
With every movie you have to keep pushing yourself along. Very few are going to directly help you. Stay motivated and sharp, keep studying don’t stop!
mentatDUKE
Veteran
Thanks for updating the diary jls. Good stuff.
About finding a producer:
I'm beginning to think that finding a producer that meets our expectations may be next to impossible at this level. Why?
They're a hired hand. This makes getting them emotionally invested in the project difficult, and why we as directors often just wear the producer hat ourselves. Remember your rule? "If I can find a person who can light as well as me, I'll give up the position."
This means that we need to be able to find a producer that is willing to sweat and even bleed for the film. Just like we are. Tall order? You bet.
I think once you start getting higher in budgets, this changes though. Maybe due to the money. The guarunteed back-end. Getting to work with recognizable actors. The shot at being in the actual industry. In this instance, you get more "serious" producers.
Look at how many actors flake out on projects. Imagine a producer doing that. It'd be a disaster. (And it happens)
Usually the most committed actors are well compensated, have leading roles, and are emotionally invested due to their victory in the audition process. They also get the chance to display and further hone their craft, among other reasons.
How do we get a producer to value their position the way a committed actor does? What an actor is doing is art, so they're willing to sacrifice for it, like all good artists do.
Producing is more impersonal business and logistics than art, but I think we have to make it personal in order to succeed at this level.
Much to consider...
About finding a producer:
I'm beginning to think that finding a producer that meets our expectations may be next to impossible at this level. Why?
They're a hired hand. This makes getting them emotionally invested in the project difficult, and why we as directors often just wear the producer hat ourselves. Remember your rule? "If I can find a person who can light as well as me, I'll give up the position."
This means that we need to be able to find a producer that is willing to sweat and even bleed for the film. Just like we are. Tall order? You bet.
I think once you start getting higher in budgets, this changes though. Maybe due to the money. The guarunteed back-end. Getting to work with recognizable actors. The shot at being in the actual industry. In this instance, you get more "serious" producers.
Look at how many actors flake out on projects. Imagine a producer doing that. It'd be a disaster. (And it happens)
Usually the most committed actors are well compensated, have leading roles, and are emotionally invested due to their victory in the audition process. They also get the chance to display and further hone their craft, among other reasons.
How do we get a producer to value their position the way a committed actor does? What an actor is doing is art, so they're willing to sacrifice for it, like all good artists do.
Producing is more impersonal business and logistics than art, but I think we have to make it personal in order to succeed at this level.
Much to consider...
Last edited:
jls4
Veteran
I agree. I think that's why I push for such a small group, especially in the beginning. as you grow, it's no problem to add more people and you'll find more people who want to work with you because they see you moving. It's the whole "bandwagon" mentaility. I've learned that sometimes it's okay IMO to do the bandwagon thing because at this level more people are failing than those who are suceeding. While I don't think you can ever really waste your time (there's always something to learn) by helping others, sometimes it may not be the best use of your time if the project isn't going anywhere.
I actually had wanted to help a group of filmmakers with the producing side of things, but I'm not sure where the money will come from now. I had found a guy who claimed he'd match 400% of what I could bring to the table for a feature. So basically if I find $100K he'd match it to a total of $500K ($400K being from his company). I was really excited about it because I figured I may have found the perfect set of investors, at least for 2 to 3 movies. They wanted 50% of the backend, which is about 20% higher than what they "should" get but I figured that was the "benefit" to them.
Went to visit the guy on Saturday morning, found out it's not a direct investment, but a loan. Once I find out more about it, I may post info in reguards to it. However what happens in a nutshell is this:
If you can come up with at least $100K (it can be more) this company will take that as 20% of the budget amount for the movie. And if you qualify, they will fund you the rest of the money, i.e the other 80%. When the movie sells you give them 50% of the profits.
The drawbacks are the following: If you don't sell then you owe back that money, so you'd either have to pay it back or file bankruptcy to protect yourself. Then even though you have a 50% stake, you still have 20% of that to go to whatever investors you got to sign on. So it really turns your "50%" into "25%". Good thing is you can pay most people upfront now.
If anyone is interested in this loan-investment opportunity, let me know and I can get you intouch with the guy who sets this up. This could be a really good deal for someone who already has one feature in place and has distribution of at least $750K setup for another movie. The company only funds movies $500K and over. If you have any Q let me know those as well and I'll try and let you know as much as I can based on the two meetings I had with the guy.