t3i manual audio problem

S

scorn

Member
hey guys im a noob filmmaker with a problem i have a t3i with ML and on manual audio im also using a rode video mic ( non pro version) when i record video i get alot of gain or loud hissss how can i deal with this i installed ml ecause at the time i thought t31 waas victim of the agc but what i leared is that 600d doesnt have agc enabled. well my question is how can i get rid of this hisssing in my videos. thanks for your help and i hope to learn alot from this community
 
yeah i could do that but im looking for like a settings fix, need to have it fixed without needing a diffrent recording device
 
The only option you have is to turn the +DB on the mic up, turn AGC off w/ ML, and turn all digital gain down. Then use analogue gain to raise it to an appropriate level. Whatever works will be the best possible audio you can achieve.
 
On t3i, audio is just like with the standard firmware (the audio chip seems different, not sure yet). Make sure you have selected manual audio from Canon menu (if it's like the 60D, it's called "Sound rec: Manual") and set level to maximum (hopefully they use analog gain, but I don't know, as I don't have a t3i).
 
recordingwhiz said:
Record to separate recorder...
Click to expand...

Yes, the best sound will always be a high quality separate recorder, but the internal audio isn't that bad. In fact, I've heard folks record voice tracks using cheap audio recorders attached to lav mics that sounded worse than what I've gotten in-camera. When I asked why they bothered with a separate recorder, the answer was "I thought the internal audio wasn't usable at all".
That's why I'm against this advice being given so often like this. The dual system is not always the most ideal setup, especially if the difference won't even be noticeable (run and gun interviews really won't benefit at all from an external recorder IMO, all you'll be doing is spending extra time/effort in sync for nothing).
Meanwhile, this has been a long and very complicated debate all over the forum. For now, let's try to focus on answering the OP's question.

a1ex said:
On t3i, audio is just like with the standard firmware (the audio chip seems different, not sure yet). Make sure you have selected manual audio from Canon menu (if it's like the 60D, it's called "Sound rec: Manual") and set level to maximum (hopefully they use analog gain, but I don't know, as I don't have a t3i).
Click to expand...

Ah, that's very interesting. So right now does the 60D allow the analog vs digital control in ML or is is only the t2i? Because that's something I'd like to mention in the camera model sticky post.
 
M. Gilden said:
Ah, that's very interesting. So right now does the 60D allow the analog vs digital control in ML or is is only the t2i? Because that's something I'd like to mention in the camera model sticky post.
Click to expand...

Currently the 550d and 60d have Identical Audio Option Offerings, and Currently the only thing ML brings to a 600d (t3i) in the audio department in Audio Meters when recording
 
That's right. On 60D, ML overrides Canon's audio control completely, just like on 550D. On T3i, ML does not even touch the audio settings (it only reads the sound level to display the meters).

Here's a rough guide with what works and what not for each camera (for the sticky post): http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unified/Features

At this point I'm not sure if I can enable audio monitoring on the T3i (I don't have this camera, and debugging via Skype is not easy at all). Sorry.
 
thanks all for the quick replies yes at the moment i have a t3i with ML and the audi meters do work for me but when i use the rode video mic i get a hissing noise like ive seen other who have a 550d complain about is it the rode mic doing this since the 600d doesnt have agc?

and ALEX you said to set the manual audio to maxium do i use the internal mic at maximum or the rode mic at maximum level
 
i just did an audio test in a quiet room starting at 100% manual audio levels with and without the rode mic doing tests every 25%, No matter what there was a hisssing 100%...75%...50%... and 25% with and without the mic the 50% setting with and without the mike had small hiss and the 25% you could barelly hear the audio i was about 3-4ft away the rode has dip switch options that lower the db by -20 or -10 db the normal is settings is 0db. Do you guys recommed getting a better mic or can this all be solved by messing with the settings
 
Ok, I see your problem now. You've got it backwards.
You need to read this:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?240822-The-Canon-DSLR-Audio-thread

(why dosn't anyone read the stickies?! They would seriously solve most of the questions we get)

The whole idea is that the camera amps are BAD. You want them off. Alex said 100% manual meaning not automatic. Meanwhile you want that volume to be a low as possible, definitely NOT at 100%! Ideally you should keep it at zero and use the mic's amp. Read that thread, it will explain everything.
 
i did read that sir and i did set it on manual and from what alex said he said to put it at 100% on manual from what i understood from what he wrote but ill reread that sticky maybe i am missing something and i have a t3i not a t2i, and yeah i didnt try that cuz it says to use a hot like of +db my rode mike doesnt have a +db its not the pro one or is it +0db when its on normally?
 
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As far as I know, the Rode video mic (non-pro) has a pretty low signal level for the dSLRs. As Mordy said, preamps are not so good, so using an external preamp is a very good idea.

So, if you use an external preamp, you should set the volume as low as possible from the camera.

But if you don't use any preamp, you should turn analog gain in the camera as high as possible.

Some technical details: in-camera audio gain can be analog and digital (at least on AK4646, i.e. the chip used 550D, 60D, 5D2). ML on these cameras allows you to set each one, and usually the one you should you use is Analog gain. If you use Digital gain, it will be the same as if you would boost the volume in post, so you will get noise.

Since ML can't control the audio settings on T3i/600D (yet), I hope that by setting the camera's volume to maximum, analog gain will increase. I don't know if this is true or not, since I don't yet understand how T3i sound chip works (registers are very different from the other cameras).

Now, even if the T3i uses analog or digital gain, or a combination of both, as soon as audio doesn't clip, you are getting the best possible signal for this hardware combination. For better results, you need an external preamp.

Here's a test with the rode video mic (non-pro) on the 550D: http://www.vimeo.com/18507408
 
it seems to be that the mic is not good for the t3i and the only think i can control in t3i audio settings is the audio level i dont have the option of turning up gain or not i guess its just the t3i and rode mic not being a good combination :(
 
I was also considering getting the non-pro rode videomic for the T2i/T3i depending upon which I buy, but having read more I plan to hold off for the videomic pro.
 
yeah cuz right now it seems like my t3i has the agc problem that the t2i has with this mic even on manual settings on low
 
scorn said:
yeah cuz right now it seems like my t3i has the agc problem that the t2i has with this mic even on manual settings on low
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Perhaps you misunderstood the AGC problem. Whenever the volume needs a boost in camera, you will get hiss. Keeping the volume in camera down will minimize this, but there is a certain point that it becomes noticeable, AGC or not. The only way to get good sound (as I tried to outline in that sticky, but perhaps I need some rewriting there), is to boost the sound as much as possible BEFORE it hits the camera, and keep the camera amps DOWN. Yes, the Rode VM (non pro) is actually pretty terrible at this. The volume coming into the camera is rather low which requires a boost in camera to hear. That boost will introduce noise.

All AGC does is artificially raise the volume when it can't hear, which means that during talking the volume might be fine, but as soon as there is silence in between sentences, it will boost it up to the level that noise and hiss are audible. What you are experiencing is that noise CONSTANTLY, which isn't AGC at all. It happens to be why AGC is bad, but unlike AGC this is totally avoidable.

Your options are to run the mic through an amp first (for pro quality I recommend a Juiced Link, Sennheiser, etc, but even the cheapo fiio headphone amps will probably sound better than the camera's), use a mic that has a boost built in (like the pro with the +20db), or record into a device will less noisy preamps like a Zoom H1 or inexpensive voice recorder.
 
thanks for all the info if i understood you right your saying my mic should be at max volume or +db and my camera should be lowest possible since the camera will try to make the audio louder thats entering the camera, so if its loud to begin with the camera wont add noise to it, so i have to get a preamp in order to amp up the audio before it hits the camera, so that the camera wont mess it up with hisss noise?
 
well guys one last question i have about 200 bucks to spend on something that will fix my audio problem what would you guys recomend i been looking at the juiced link ds214 i think its called would that be a good buy or should i save up and get the zoom h4n of if you guys have any other suggestions on what to buy to maximize my audio feel free to give me advice thx again,i record actions scenes if that has anything to do with selecting audio devices
 
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